[Traditional Enneagram] mood disorder/(nonpathological) emotional intensity spectrum and sx dom instinct

[ThoughtBubbles]

ok so listen up to all you people who don't know - stuff that gets diagnosed like "bipolar disorder" isn't really like this one little sticky label, it's often a very natural cluster of traits that happen throughout the human (and sometimes other animal) species. just sometimes there is something that has gone awry or there's too much of the traits, etc etc etc. so depression, bipolar disorder 1, 2, cyclothymia, all those lovely mood thingies... all those are related to emotional intensity. WHICH IS NATURAL when it's not actually negatively affecting one's state of being beyond the point of coping. LET ME POUND THAT INTO YOU BEFORE YOU CONTINUE

if you're examing this from the typical psychologist theoretical orientation (usually not mbti or enneagram), EMOTIONAL INTENSITY IS NATURAL AND ON A SPECTRUM OF NORMAL BEHAVIORS, i guess like the bipolar spectrum in the case of this question or whatever idgaf

with that out of the way.

do you think that people who are high sx are kind of a different system's way of explaining stuff like bipolar disorder? do you guys think that the enneagram explains bipolar disorder and other mood disorders and then the spectrum itself with sx-ness?

i'm kind of holding up two completely different systems/paradigms and comparing them mentally so just wondering

 

[Kanra Jest]

I've thought about it. But it'd have to be pretty extreme. Perhaps depending on health, like unhealthy sx and 4 and 9 could have serious attachment issues. 3, and 8 can narcissistic ans sociopathic tendencies when unhealthy. Ect

But idk. I'd need to think about it more.

I have extreme mood regulation difficulties, with the triggers. Or BPD. Attachment issues(with those few I manage to emotionally connect to) And I'm a 3 or 4, starting to think 4w3 sx/sp.. as well as narcissistic/sociopathic tendencies.. depression. Blah, blah. I either feel too little or feel too much usually.

...food for thought, I suppose.

Is ADD just overactive Ne? I've thought about that and my diagnoses of ADD too...
Maybe it all has a, uh, correlation, hm? Hmm

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I went through an incredibly painful breakup a couple years ago and still had to live with my partner for 2 months. I still loved him deeply, and the rejection and depression were brutal. I began going through cycles of borderline suicidal feelings and aggressive lashing out. I was so concerned about my behavior that I googled a test for Borderline Personality Disorder and scored fairly high on it.

I do not have Borderline Personality Disorder, but I certainly fit the description for a period of time during intense emotional upheaval. I'm a 4 with strong Sx.

 

[rav3n]

ok so listen up to all you people who don't know - stuff that gets diagnosed like "bipolar disorder" isn't really like this one little sticky label, it's often a very natural cluster of traits that happen throughout the human (and sometimes other animal) species. just sometimes there is something that has gone awry or there's too much of the traits, etc etc etc. so depression, bipolar disorder 1, 2, cyclothymia, all those lovely mood thingies... all those are related to emotional intensity. WHICH IS NATURAL when it's not actually negatively affecting one's state of being beyond the point of coping. LET ME POUND THAT INTO YOU BEFORE YOU CONTINUE

if you're examing this from the typical psychologist theoretical orientation (usually not mbti or enneagram), EMOTIONAL INTENSITY IS NATURAL AND ON A SPECTRUM OF NORMAL BEHAVIORS, i guess like the bipolar spectrum in the case of this question or whatever idgaf

with that out of the way.

do you think that people who are high sx are kind of a different system's way of explaining stuff like bipolar disorder? do you guys think that the enneagram explains bipolar disorder and other mood disorders and then the spectrum itself with sx-ness?

i'm kind of holding up two completely different systems/paradigms and comparing them mentally so just wondering

The vast majority of traits that are symptomatic of mental health issues are normal behaviors. It's grouping and the magnitude of the grouped traits that defines mental health issues or not.

Sx has nothing to do with bipolar disorder since sx doms and auxes aren't necessarily manic or depressive. Sx is the desire for deep intimacy.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

The vast majority of traits that are symptomatic of mental health issues are normal behaviors. It's grouping and the magnitude of the grouped traits that defines mental health issues or not.

Sx has nothing to do with bipolar disorder since sx doms and auxes aren't necessarily manic or depressive. Sx is the desire for deep intimacy.

It's also erroneous that Sx-firsts are the only ones capable of being intense. Anyone can be intense if their instinctual survival strategy is threatened.

 

[Chad of the OttomanEmpire]

I think we should be careful about correlating personality type, and personality disorders. I have actually dealt with mental illness, and I promise, it fucks you up enough that it takes over your mind and your life. It's not really a series of misinterpreted type-related quirks, but is indicative of some serious malfunctioning. It's certainly more than different types being by-words for different disorders.

I'm not saying there's nothing to it. I manifested characteristics of a certain disorder correlated with my type during an ugly period in my life when I was truly functioning pathologically. And my father and I were both sx-firsts--my step-mother testified in court that my father suffered from a "personality disorder"--when it was clear to me that he was a very normal sx 6 lashing out at places in his intimate relationships that caused insecurity. Likewise, my mother and step-father often thought I was "disturbed" or "needed professional help" when I was simply being the person that I was. They've tried to assign me both bi-polar, schizophrenia, and depression--it's easy to start connecting dots about sx-first and perceived personality disorders here, yet I still think this designation is totally insulting to those who really ARE caught in the grips of these disorders.

For the record, Riso and Hudson in fact suggest that the low-end, pathological behaviours of the types actually DO correlate to certain mental illnesses. We're talking about pathological conditions that most people will never see, though--and their suggestions have drawn criticism. Still, you're not alone in your wonderings.

 

[Red Memories]

While enneagram does speculate links between certain types and certain mental illnesses, I think anyone for whatever reasons can experience them. It is often a hormonal imbalance, a different brain working, a difficult environment rather than a "type" that creates a mental illness.

I think however our types can somewhat explain the different ways a mental illness expresses itself. Me and a friend both have anxiety to extents but they manifest in different ways. But we're two different types.

 

[Zhaylin]

Maybe the different types make a person more predisposed to certain mental problems.
I'm fairly sure I was an INFJ as a kid and teen before I settled into INFP as an older teen/young adult.
I was friggin NUTS as a kid and young adult. I had extreme magical thinking; was a self-injurer into my 30's; even saw things more often than most people.
Most of my problems, though, stemmed from severe sleep deprivation. I was mis-diagnosed as bipolar by several Dr's but the meds made me 100 times worse.

My home life was always chaotic. As a teen, I would often stay up for days and sneak out of the house- just to be alone and find some peace, quiet and tranquility. That need for isolation made me make terrible choices which hurt my health. And then I spit out kid after kid (x's 4 back to back, lol), which lead to similar problems. I NEEDED to find that stillness and solitude, so I'd skip sleep (relying on caffeine pills because I WASN'T manic and couldn't stay awake on my own).

I'm an sp. Part of being an sp, for me anyhow, is a LOT of alone time and peace. I abhor chaos of any kind and will go to drastic lengths to separate myself from it. I'm also HSP, so sensory overload feeds into the sp. I'm also a 9, rofl, which makes my hatred for conflict even more hard-wired into me.
Disassociation, anxiety, sleep disturbances, substance abuse (Provigil to stay away, Trazadone to sleep), depression at my worst....
But it all has it's roots in me needing peace, solitude, quiet.

So.... I don't know. Perhaps, my circular thinking makes me actually support the idea that some types go hand in hand with disorders
YET... if I successfully became a hermit, I think the disorders would go away. Hmmm...

 

[Mind Maverick]

It's common for people to relate to things like borderline on a surface level then be like "nvm" when they realize a) the severity/extremes of things, and b) the details of the inner workings. It's actually one reason those who aren't knowledgeable minimize and invalidate issues of people with the disorder(s).The entire issue with disorders is that they are outside of a normal range. The very definition of a disorder is that it's something that interferes with everyday life. They differ from the intensity of normal intensity. Obviously bipolar is natural, just as any other disease is...but that is very different than being normal. There is being in a state of upheaval, and then there is actually being bad enough to be hospitalized several times throughout your life and need medications or years of intensive therapy just to be able to function properly, or hold jobs, or basically just not fucking die. No, things like borderline and bipolar are not explained by something like the Enneagram or Sx.

 

[Indigo Rodent]

It's common for people to relate to things like borderline on a surface level then be like "nvm" when they realize a) the severity/extremes of things, and b) the details of the inner workings. It's actually one reason those who aren't knowledgeable minimize and invalidate issues of people with the disorder(s).The entire issue with disorders is that they are outside of a normal range. The very definition of a disorder is that it's something that interferes with everyday life. They differ from the intensity of normal intensity. Obviously bipolar is natural, just as any other disease is...but that is very different than being normal. There is being in a state of upheaval, and then there is actually being bad enough to be hospitalized several times throughout your life and need medications or years of intensive therapy just to be able to function properly, or hold jobs, or basically just not fucking die. No, things like borderline and bipolar are not explained by something like the Enneagram or Sx.

Enneagram was originally used to diagnose pathologies, though. The idea of healthy types was only added later.

 

[Mind Maverick]

Enneagram was originally used to diagnose pathologies, though. The idea of healthy types was only added later.

Enneagram was not originally used to diagnose anything. It has never been approved as a diagnostic manual for anything.

 

[Mind Maverick]

• Enneagram type 1 when healthy is well organized, idealistic, and wants to do things right. When this personality becomes pathological, when carried to an extreme, it is obsessive-compulsive.

• Enneagram type 2 when healthy helps, gives, and is in tune with others’ feelings. When this personality is carried to an extreme, it becomes manipulative and histrionic.

Let’s also discuss the absence of this quality—a non-nurturing person with no or little empathy. We can do the same for all the types.

• Enneagram type 3 when healthy works hard, achieves a lot, and thinks well of his or her abilities. Carried to an extreme, this personality becomes narcissistic and grandiose.

• Enneagram type 4 when healthy is compassionate and introspective, but carried to an extreme becomes depressed.

• Enneagram type 5 when healthy is independent, observant, likes to think about things. When pathological, this personality is avoidant.

• Enneagram type 6 when healthy is alert, watchful, and concerned with safety. Carried to an extreme it becomes paranoid and anxious.

• Enneagram type 7 when healthy is fun-loving, optimistic, and enthusiastic. Carried to an extreme it becomes manic.

• Enneagram type 8 personality is assertive, courageous and often a leader. Carried to an extreme it can become violent.

So only 8s can become violent? Only 7s can become manic? Only 2s become manipulative or histronic?

Come on, please tell me no one falls for this shit....

 

[Indigo Rodent]

Enneagram was not originally used to diagnose anything. It has never been approved as a diagnostic manual for anything.

I meant that it was all about pathology. Originally these were 9 neuroses.

 

[Mind Maverick]

I meant that it was all about pathology. Originally these were 9 neuroses.

Enneagram has its roots in spirituality and was never widespread or accepted in psychiatry.

 

[rav3n]

Enneagram has its roots in spirituality and was never widespread or accepted in psychiatry.

They've tried to enter as a valid form of diagnostic but so far, have been rejected because of the lack of evidence.

 

[Mind Maverick]

They've tried to enter as a valid form of diagnostic but so far, have been rejected because of the lack of evidence.

Exactly.