Mental Illness and Wisdom

[ygolo]

There are many people who assign a specific sigma to mental illness. The basic idea amounts to not listening to the mentally ill. If someone is mentally ill, the notion is that their thoughts, their beliefs, and their observations should be ignored to protect ones own.

There was a rumor about Dale Carnegie spread to discredit his book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" that he committed suicide. There were articles after Robin Williams' death about how people were uneasy with his humor, pointing to his illness as an explanation for this ill ease.

This notion is tied to the idea that wisdom leads to necessarily to total emotional health. The logical consequence is that a lack of total emotional health means a lack of wisdom.

What do you think about this notion?

What is your opinion of the mentally ill, and the wisdom that they may or may not have?

 

[Chthonic]

Funnily enough I saw a book in the airport the otherday correlating the mentally ill with leadership. I forget what its called now otherwise I'd provide the Amazon link. But a quick peruse posited that people with mental illness can actually become exceedingly wise because it opens the floodgate on empathy, lateral thinking and other leadership traits.

Found it.. A First-Rate Madness: Uncovering the Links Between Leadership and Mental Illness: Nassir Ghaemi: 9780143121336: Amazon.com: Books

Aside from that title which I found interesting (wish I'd bought it now) I do think society over stigmatises not just mental illness but also any kind of divergent thinking that does not reflect the consensus of the masses. Until that divergent thinking of course amounts to something like (say the Apple Corp) and then of course it suddenly lauded as genius. But the small acts of genius that happen everyday get by and large ignored or shouted down.

Humanity is a herd following thing I've come to realise and the genius of many will not be realised until they have long perished. Normalisation of society is I think the greatest illness of them all.

 

[prplchknz]

I think it's like people like ducks but they also pretend to like roosters. and as long as someone is a duck it's wonderful everyone listens to the duck. but as soon as they see a rooster they say they think the rooster is all right but often discards what the roosters says and put them on the out skirts of society. So if you can look like a duck even though your rooster you will be fine. but if you're a rooster and can not appear to be duck no matter how hard you try or how smart you are you will end up largely ignored by society.

moral be a duck

 

[Nicodemus]

There are many people who assign a specific sigma to mental illness. The basic idea amounts to not listening to the mentally ill. If someone is mentally ill, the notion is that their thoughts, their beliefs, and their observations should be ignored to protect ones own.

There was a rumor about Dale Carnegie spread to discredit his book "How to Win Friends and Influence People" that he committed suicide. There were articles after Robin Williams' death about how people were uneasy with his humor, pointing to his illness as an explanation for this ill ease.

I think the notion that the mentally ill are not to be trusted is a remnant of ages past in which the mind was so poorly understood that one could be something as undefined as 'crazy'. If one is either sane or insane, then, of course, the insane are not to be trusted. Fortunately, we now know that there are countless ways in which one mind differs from all others and countless ways to be mentally ill, all of which deserve to be viewed and treated according to their specific qualities. To think of the mentally ill as a cohesive group of individuals sharing some defining quality which makes them 'mentally ill' runs counter to our current understanding of evolution, human society, and the mind.

This notion is tied to the idea that wisdom leads to necessarily to total emotional health. The logical consequence is that a lack of total emotional health means a lack of wisdom.

What do you think about this notion?

I think the former notion, that wisdom leads to emotional health, does exist, if only because wisdom is often understood as the knowledge of how to live a good life (which would seem to involve emotional health). I do not think I have come across the opposite notion, though. No surprise there, as few people care about logical consequences, particularly of underdetermined cultural notions.

What is your opinion of the mentally ill, and the wisdom that they may or may not have?

That depends entirely on the individual and the illness in question. My opinion of the mentally ill in general is about as defined as my opinion of people not named John.

 

[Recktor]

I've always assumed that mental illness resulted as an amalgam of emotional isolation, singular focus, and extreme intelligence (save for those genetically predisposed to such problems). Not the other way around

Often times the people who 'go insane' had above average intelligence. E.g. A science presentation by James Holmes in 2006 - YouTube

And from Wikipedia:

Kaczynski's lawyers, headed by Montana federal defender Michael Donahoe, attempted to enter an insanity defense to save Kaczynski's life, but Kaczynski rejected this plea. A court-appointed psychiatrist diagnosed Kaczynski as suffering from paranoid schizophrenia,[89] but declared him competent to stand trial. Kaczynski's family said Ted would psychologically "shut down" when pressured.[90] In the book Technological Slavery, Kaczynski recalls two prison psychologists, Dr. James Watterson and Dr. Michael Morrison, who visited him almost every day for a period of four years, who told him that they saw no indication that he suffered from any such serious mental illness, and that the diagnosis of his being paranoid schizophrenic was "ridiculous" and a "political diagnosis." Dr. Morrison made remarks to him about psychologists and psychiatrists providing any desired diagnosis if they are well paid for doing so.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I've always asserted most mental illness is from childhood neglect or abuse. Say 93%

And 7% organic.

 

[Thalassa]

I think it's a ridiculous stigma since a ridiculous number of artists, writers, musicians and other prominent thinkers (including mathematicians) suffered from some kind of mental illness, ranging from depression to schizophrenia, and let's not forget all of the supposedly smart people who are aspergergers or autistic. Some people are utterly frightened of autistics, comparing them to narcissist and sociopaths because of their lack of emotional intelligence, and yet many people online act like being aspie is cool because it's associated with people being good in math or science.

External circumstances like drug related psychosis, fevers and permanent damage from things like meningitis can also effect a person emotionally or in their thoughts.

I think we should look for the strengths in each illness. Like, why did this illness evolve genetically? Bipolar people tend to be creative, schizophrenic people were even more attractive on average than average people, sociopathic people are often over achievers, etc.

Plus never rule out the possibility that our current social framework is part of the problem, contributing to sleep disorders, anxiety and depression. The way we live us just not natural. Put some bipolar people in Medieval Europe and watch them thrive?

 

[Thalassa]

I've always asserted most mental illness is from childhood neglect or abuse. Say 93%

And 7% organic.

No it depends on what it is. Personality disorders are often related to child abuse, but bipolar disorder travels in a similar genetic group as autism spectrum (both are spectrum disorders involving lack of emotional control, among other traits) and schizophrenia is found in nearly every culture.

However many common problems like ADHD, and increase in depression and anxiety are due to things like the stress of modern life, isolation, watching television and being online simultaneously, spending too much time on electronic devices, traffic, over scheduling and over busyness, etc. Not to mention things like poor diet, lack of exercise or lack of sun (all organic but not genetic illness).

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I respectfully disagree.

That is a bunch of hogwash. I realize you are likely quoting modern psychology. And it is a bunch of hogwash.


I agree with your second paragraph. But not for real disorders. This forum tend to want to downplay real disorders and lump them in with dysfunctions we all deal with. It's a form of denial for them.

Real disorders are caused by child abuse or neglect.

And most borderline issues like autism and ADD/ADHD can be essentially cured by a good family, and with therapeutic techniques applied by a loving family.

 

[Nicodemus]

I respectfully disagree.

That is a bunch of hogwash. I realize you are likely quoting modern psychology. And it is a bunch of hogwash.

You respectfully disagree with proven facts? It is not some strange theory or wild assumption that bipolar disorder is hugely genetic. Not only do we know this to be true, any idiot can also observe it for herself in the families of the people afflicted with it. Indeed, assessing family history is part of the diagnostic process in determining bipolar.

And most borderline issues like autism and ADD/ADHD can be essentially cured by a good family, and with therapeutic techniques applied by a loving family.

You are a painfully naive person. Have you ever been to a school or read a book that was not about religion?

Funnily enough I saw a book in the airport the otherday correlating the mentally ill with leadership. I forget what its called now otherwise I'd provide the Amazon link. But a quick peruse posited that people with mental illness can actually become exceedingly wise because it opens the floodgate on empathy, lateral thinking and other leadership traits.

Found it.. A First-Rate Madness: Uncovering the Links Between Leadership and Mental Illness: Nassir Ghaemi: 9780143121336: Amazon.com: Books

I am about halfway through it. Very interesting, although not all cases he makes are convincing (particularly Gandhi and MLK). For people interested in mania and depression or, really, history, it is well worth the read. For instance, I was aware of W. T. Sherman's depression, but not of his mania, which seems to be far more essential to his personality. Nor did I know that Roosevelt and Kennedy were so obviously hyperthymic.

 

[Nicodemus]

I think it depends on what kind of personality disorder they have. Some disorders are just nasty and they don't have any wisdom in them. Like narcissistic or paranoid.

Borderline and bipolar, maybe.

Even those have some, though admittedly few, upsides. Narcissists can get things done without worrying about other people's feelings, which, in a rare situation, can be just what is needed. And if you ever need someone to find even the tiniest of security loopholes or potential threats, a paranoid person might actually serve you well. But that makes them useful rather as tools than as people, which is probably unsatisfying.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

[MENTION=14921]Nic[/MENTION]o


Yes, this forum loves to say most mental disorders comes from genetics. It is a form of denial, really. Of the truth.

 

[prplchknz]

[MENTION=14921]Nic[/MENTION]o


Yes, this forum loves to say most mental disorders comes from genetics. It is a form of denial, really. Of the truth.

are you a time traveler? cuz this is such an early 20th century attitude about mental disorders.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I dunno. I don't think so.


Do I remind of some ancient figure?

 

[prplchknz]

I dunno. I don't think so.


Do I remind of some ancient figure?

early 20th century is not ancient it is at most 114 years ago

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I know.

 

[á´…eparted]

When I was diagnosed with bipolar II early this summer it honestly seemed like not much changed. I just got a label, and some pills (valorpic acid) to help keep me stable. I'm happy to say it helps. I would say I have wisdom on some areas. Then again, everyone does. Yes there is some stigma against mental disorders, and most of it is from lack of understanding. I'm not going to go around and tell people I know IRL what mine is as people wrongly assume it is bipolar I (the type that goes into full manic modes), and may be hesitant to trust me when that is unfounded. Does this bother me? Nope. All I have to do is not say what I have and I don't have a problem. Easy.

Honestly, I think this is sort of a meaningless concept. I mean, does it really matter? It's likely that this is just stemming from my annoyance and disdain for philosophy, but the idea of wisdom and lack their of from mental disorders, all I can think is... who cares?

 

[five sounds]

"wisdom comes from winters"

 

[Raffaella]

I’ll preface this with a well-known fact: mental illness is multifactorial therefore experiences differ from person to person.

The notion that you need full emotional health to be wise is erroneous as there are different levels of severity for every illness, different minds, and lives being affected therefore you can’t make blanket statements on such conditions. Those who do have little knowledge or experience with mental illness. Hence, I don’t have a strong opinion on the mentally ill. The only characteristic I find amongst them is an inability to carry out a ‘normal’ tasks; live a ‘normal’ life. I feel empathy for them but I’m hesitant to blame all their mistakes and faults on a mental illness.

"wisdom comes from winters"

No, this is a romanticisation of mental illness and is just as pervasive.

 

[five sounds]

I’ll preface this with a well-known fact: mental illness is multifactorial therefore experiences differ from person to person.

The notion that you need full emotional health to be wise is erroneous as there are different levels of severity for every illness, different minds, and lives being affected therefore you can’t make blanket statements on such conditions. Those who do have little knowledge or experience with mental illness. Hence, I don’t have a strong opinion on the mentally ill. The only characteristic I find amongst them is an inability to carry out a ‘normal’ tasks; live a ‘normal’ life. I feel empathy for them but I’m hesitant to blame all their mistakes and faults on a mental illness.




No, this is a romanticisation of mental illness and is just as pervasive.

How is that romanticising mental illness? Those with greater struggles often are forced to dig deeper to find meaning and truth. Going through hardship and dark times builds empathy, perspective, and strength. It can also break you down to rock bottom before you get to that point. Some people never get there, but those who do are further along than the ones who were never forced to find meaning and hope in the midst of hell.