• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Matrix 4

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Guardian of Ga'Hoole
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
16,494
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I will say, I'm glad this is here. I think Lana has a lot to say, as a lot has happened in the past 20 years, both in the world and to her personally. I really liked the attempt at Cloud Atlas, and I really was in to Sense8, hell, I even found things to like about Jupiter Ascending. The Wachowski's have big ideas, they think deeply about the human experience, and frankly they have delved into that human experience enough for me to always listen to what they have to say. There's a world where this is really good. And one where it's sort of meh and that's fine.

Need to finish Sense8. I stopped watching season 2 when I learned it was cancelled and I heard it ended on a cliffhanger. Did they ever end up doing that movie that tied up the loose ends that I heard about?

I think the Wachowskis don't always hit, but at least even their failures are interesting to look at. Jupiter Ascending is a pretty bad movie that I really wanted to like, but it looks really cool. It mind sound superficial that I'm praising them on this, but a lot of films these days don't even really do that. Speed Racer is really a better movie than it has any right to be. I like the Wachowskis because they always try to do something interesting, even if the results don't always work.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
46,774
MBTI Type
BELF
Enneagram
594
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Need to finish Sense8. I stopped watching season 2 when I learned it was cancelled and I heard it ended on a cliffhanger. Did they ever end up doing that movie that tied up the loose ends that I heard about?

i have been looking at Sens8 info for the last day or two to determine whether I was gonna try again to watch it. (I made it about 5-6 episodes into the first season, it just felt interminably long to me the last time I tried... but I really want to get through it.)

Yes, my understanding is that the extra-long finale episode aired on June 8, 2018. So it's all there if you are committed to getting through it. The finale is supposed to double-down on the good and bad of the series, so pretty much it's what you might expect.

I think the Wachowskis don't always hit, but at least even their failures are interesting to look at. Jupiter Ascending is a pretty bad movie that I really wanted to like, but it looks really cool.

Yeah -- it's the only reason I would consider watching it again and/or getting a cheap 4k copy. The dialogue is just terrible, so bad it's difficult to get through the film.... but I remember it being so spectacularly gorgeous! I liked the three Abrasax siblings too.

"Cloud Atlas" is just near and dear to my heart, despite its flaws. I rewatch that movie on a pretty consistent basis. I think The Matrix, Cloud Atlas, and Bound are my favorites... I really would like Matrix 4 to work.

With the trailer coming out, I rewatched every movie. The Matrix, as always, just a 10/10 film. You can sort of see the dorky/cringe dialogue and elements that would infect the sequels but there is such a purpose to the story propelling everyone from one scene/revelation to the next, and none of the obtuse obfuscation in terms of dialogue that might seem deep on the surface but really just hides flimsy structure.

it's really quite elegant in that sense. The pacing is great, it's well-edited, the set and costume design is spectacular, and it's a very accessible film regardless of what the viewer brings to the table. Everyone feels like it is speaking to them, despite the fact it was mostly a secreted trans allegory story driving some of the metaphor. Christians and existentialists alike find meaning in it.

The Merovingian was an interesting look into this 3rd world of exiled programs but their conversation dragged and didn't have a lot of purpose.

The gist is that every effect needs a cause, and if you don't understand why you are doing something, then you're just a pawn of the effect pushing you towards a cause... but Lambert Wilson's scene-stealing aside, yeah, it's way too wordy and hard to understand how it actually reflects on our trio of leads. I mean, despite the Oracle supposedly providing insight to Neo, they are only going to get the Key at her orders, which suggests they are just pawns regardless (whether her plan, or the Architect's, or whoever's). The cake was just excess and belabored the point, although I guess it's unforgettable. To put it all another way, though -- I really liked what they were trying to say... if I could hone in on specifically how what they were saying applied to the plot.

The scene in the bathroom with Persephone might have been my favorite scene in the movie -- it is edited and shot and acted and scored so beautifully, and it's ominous, suggesting future inevitable loss. But it almost feels like it belongs in a different film.

I liked Smith's reveal as the virus he compared humanity to in the first film.

That was a really nice touch.

I will say, I'm glad this is here. I think Lana has a lot to say, as a lot has happened in the past 20 years, both in the world and to her personally. I really liked the attempt at Cloud Atlas, and I really was in to Sense8, hell, I even found things to like about Jupiter Ascending. The Wachowski's have big ideas, they think deeply about the human experience, and frankly they have delved into that human experience enough for me to always listen to what they have to say. There's a world where this is really good. And one where it's sort of meh and that's fine.

I'm feeling like part of the message of Reloaded and Revolutions was related to real-life issues for the Wachowskis, notably Lana with her marriage ending and also (based on the news flowing at the time) likely being when she was making incremental changes related to her gender transition even though it didn't become officially public for a few years. It's hard to be coherent about anything when you're immersed in all that inner turmoil, fear of how it will impact your life including career and well-being (they had quickly ascended up the success ladder, and were trying to hard to avoid any publicity), and then burning focus and energy to make those kind of changes clandestinely. A person only has so much sanity and mental/emotion energy to tap into. I wouldn't be surprised if this is one reason the later Matrix films suffered unfortunately, it's just a lot to deal with including the stress levels.
 
Last edited:

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Guardian of Ga'Hoole
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
16,494
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
i have been looking at Sens8 info for the last day or two to determine whether I was gonna try again to watch it. (I made it about 5-6 episodes into the first season, it just felt interminably long to me the last time I tried... but I really want to get through it.)

Yes, my understanding is that the extra-long finale episode aired on June 8, 2018. So it's all there if you are committed to getting through it. The finale is supposed to double-down on the good and bad of the series, so pretty much it's what you might expect.
Thanks for the info. Yeah, knowing that there is actually an ending I think is sufficient motivation to finish it.
 

JocktheMotie

Habitual Fi LineStepper
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
8,468
The gist is that every effect needs a cause, and if you don't understand why you are doing something, then you're just a pawn of the effect pushing you towards a cause... but Lambert Wilson's scene-stealing aside, yeah, it's way too wordy and hard to understand how it actually reflects on our trio of leads. I mean, despite the Oracle supposedly providing insight to Neo, they are only going to get the Key at her orders, which suggests they are just pawns regardless (whether her plan, or the Architect's, or whoever's). The cake was just excess and belabored the point, although I guess it's unforgettable. To put it all another way, though -- I really liked what they were trying to say... if I could hone in on specifically how what they were saying applied to the plot.

The scene in the bathroom with Persephone might have been my favorite scene in the movie -- it is edited and shot and acted and scored so beautifully, and it's ominous, suggesting future inevitable loss. But it almost feels like it belongs in a different film.

I did like that counterpoint, that Neo + Co were just being shuffled around by another machination, another method of control but I think the salience of that point was lost in the verbosity and the cake distraction. I'll have to go through it again to see why else that didn't really work for me. Also, they sort of drop it too; they're not really given time to digest and reflect on The Merovingian's point as they're spirited away by Persephone and into the next fight sequence.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
25,200
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I will see it. Have the DVD collection and it is one of several things I have watched a half dozen times.
 

Abcdenfp

Terpsichore
Joined
May 19, 2017
Messages
1,609
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7W8
@JocktheMotie I agree with your sentiments on the Wachowskis , for someone like me they put the meat on the bone in a way i want to chew down to the marrow and that's unusual, The matrix brought me to Carl Jung, Alan Watts , Ram Dass, and ultimately to the curiosity of why and how we work. It showed me that there are layers to layers. which intuitively i always knew. I am going to watch this movie eye and mind open.
 
Top