Legitimate Type Me Thread

[Sil]

My word choices here aren't the best. I should be more specific with my words so that each has distinct meaning. I'll get around to that at some point. Gotta refine.

 

[existence]

Hmmm. Let's assume for this that Si is a subjective experiential sensation tied to past experiences (but not correlated to memory).

I often use this 1) when I am trying to remember how to do something I've done before, but don't recall how exactly to do it or 2) when I have to find my way back from somewhere (basically anything with directions where I don't actually have any directions).

For example, let's say you put five or six bottles of sake in front of me that I've tasted before, but don't exactly remember. You want me to remember which one was sweetest (let's assume for this argument that I don't actually know sake polish grades). I can look at each bottle and feel around inside myself for a subjective, emotional "snapshot" that goes with each bottle. It's not remembering the taste or the actual past experience of drinking from that bottle, I'm remembering the emotional experience that was associated with the act of drinking from it. I can then use that emotional "memory" of drinking the sake to identify which was sweetest. If you asked me, I couldn't tell you anything about my experience drinking the sweet sake. I could only tell you it was sweet because I remember the emotional resonance that the bottle produced.

On a side note, this makes me really good at blindfold drinking games, because identical drinks produce the same emotional resonance. I'm not sure what your emotional snapshot means here.


I think the more tried and true example of Si is the first, task-based example. The rest are just the things that I've always considered an extension of Si.

This still isn't high order Si, this is some idiosyncratic interpretation of experiences that strong and preferred Si would deal with very differently.

I wouldn't consider this terribly Ne though, since it's not about possibilities. It's more a life philosophy.

Ooh, gotcha, yeah this isn't necessarily preferred Ne.

The short of it is that I feel that I use an extensive amount of Ne for an ESTJ, but probably not enough to be an Ne-dom.

The other part is that I don't see any similarities between myself and other ENFPs I see on forums. And this is after years of interacting with ENFPs. They are generally a lot more...emotionally tuned into themselves. There's a marriage between them and their emotions I don't connect with. I tend to view most of my emotions as things separate of myself. Not always, but often.

You are talking about Fe here over Fi.

There are parts of inferior Si I do relate to, but having re-read both pieces, I think inferior Fi is more applicable.

The points you bolded in the inferior Fi description are not specific enough to unambigiously associate them with the Fi of ExTJ's. Especially as you did not relate to a lot of points that are highly relevant to inferior Fi as a concept on the whole.

It's funny, I was just discussing in a different forum that most fictional characters I relate to are ISTJs. I also find ISTJs to be very easy to understand and get along with.

Why?

Example of such a fictional character? (Just curious, not very relevant otherwise)

It reduces human motivations to absurdity. Humans are much more nuanced.

When you have the time, elaborate on this a bit, just curious.

I do to an extent...I think one of my earlier posts addressed it. But as I was reading it, there were some major "nope, don't relate" moments. Such as the ENFP withdrawing for periods of time.

OK

Ne, Si, and Fi feel very strong and apparent to me. I notice them easily. Te feels more unconscious. I use it, but I couldn't say I notice it.

Whatever you called Si isn't Si or at least not high order Si. It's unclear whether you prefer T or F. Your Ne, possible that Ni is preferred over it, though not sure.

 

[existence]

My thoughts so far. ENTJ or ENFP/ENFJ. All other types out

Here are some descriptions from a user in another forum named lookslikeiwin:

1. Se: An external physical/factual awareness. Se notices and identifies the bare reality of it's surroundings separate from any abstract interpretation or possibilities. It is only what is.

Don't relate. The present is always filled with some abstractual context. I look at the world around me and it is always tied to something beyond what is just there. Sometimes that is ideas, sometimes its over-arching theories/ideas about universal truths, sometimes it's just past experiences.

Lol, any Sensory type is out for you at this point. You are an Intuitive. No question about this.

2. Si: An internal physical/factual awareness. Si notices and identifies the bare reality of it's own being, separate from any abstract interpretation or possibilities. It is what it is according to the internalized facts which it is continually building upon.

Relate, but on a minimal scale. I'm not sure what's mean't by "bare reality of its own being." I consider abstract interpretations and possibilities an extension of myself; they are a part of me. Maybe not the core part, but a significant part. They're not separable from me because they comprise a part of who I am.

But maybe that's what the last sentence alludes to...

Really poor personal understanding of Si, it's not your auxiliary or anything like that. You sound like Ni is highly preferred over Si as this Intuition here sounds the introverted form of it.

3. Ne: An external abstract/theoretical awareness. Ne notices and identifies the possibilities presented by it's surroundings which may not yet be reality or presented as facts.

Yes. I relate to this. It's strong, although I'm hesitant to say it's my default function. But it's definitely heavily present, especially if I'm not focused on some task.

Why are you hesitant to say that it's your default? I'd really like to hear about this more.

4. Ni: An internal abstract/theoretical awareness. Ni notices and identifies theoretical concepts based upon information already internalized and builds upon it's theories continually as more facts are presented to it to work with.

I relate to this to an extent. I am constantly taking in new information to generate new ideas, which are then held up against a larger internal idea, much like putting a puzzle piece up against another puzzle piece to see if they fit.

However, if there's a mismatch and it's unexpected (let's say the facts don't fit the idea), I'll see what my gut says and then decide from there whether to discount the theory or the facts. If I discount the theory, I try to go back to facts and re-piece a new image together. If I dismiss the facts, I have to find a reason why they don't fit that makes sense within the theory.

Ni is strong.

5. Fe: An external emotional awareness. Fe recognizes and utilizes the emotional situation/atmosphere in those around it.

Hmmm...I don't consider myself Fe, although I am somewhat aware of others' emotions. I can pick up how someone feels on a general level (mostly in tone of voice, choice of words). But beyond that, no. Not very good at this. I often have to ask to confirm if people are feeling one way or the other about something. It's not natural.

OK. Can you give me a real life example of how you have to ask others to confirm what way people are feeling about whatever?

6. Fi: An internal emotional awareness. Fi recognizes and utilizes it's own emotional situation/aura.

Yes. Very aware of how I feel about things. Often ignore it, especially if it feels irrationally-based (as in there are no immediate facts on hand that justify the emotion). Ignore doesn't mean I can act against it...I can't act against the value-feelings I have. But I can control how they are displayed in public, especially how often.

I find it interesting you say you can't act against the value-feelings. What do you mean by this exactly?

This one does not sound like T > F.

7. Te: An external logical awareness. Te recognizes and utilizes the systems and patterns surrounding it.

Yes. But I take facts and build them into patterns? Kind of like taking information and re-arranging it into an organized system of understanding.

Anyways, I rely heavily on facts.

Not specific enough to tell what this is. On the surface it does not go against any of the possible type options left.

8. Ti: An internal logical awareness. Ti recognizes and utilizes it's own collection of systems and patterns.

Eh, I don't know about an internal logical awareness. I think I notice whether or not there are logical consistencies in ideas, but it's more gut than head based (Si reacts first and then I have to spend some time pouring over the details for my brain to catch up and identify what it is that's rubbing me wrong).

Ti isn't your most preferred function but this wasn't a question anyway was it.

When you say "Si reacts first", please explain in everyday words what you mean by this.

*additional note* It has been brought up that judging functions (thinking and feeling functions) may be more about decision making than awareness. Since I won't be able to edit this post by the time a conclusion is reached, I will allow you to draw your own. At the moment, I am inclined to say both are involved. I don't know which is more important.

I agree, every function has some sort of awareness mentally, that's just logical. It's not the same as Perceiving, though. Also, every function will make decisions if we define decision-making as the function coming to a conclusion on something, just the Perceiving functions will not judge data like the Judging functions will. For example, Se will come to the conclusion that your laptop is there. This is a decision but not a Rational one. The object is simply seen and accepted as that, not judged.

 

[Sil]

This still isn't high order Si, this is some idiosyncratic interpretation of experiences that strong and preferred Si would deal with very differently.

Hmmmm...okay. Well if that's the case, that clears up a lot about whether or not I'm a different type than ESTJ. That was one of the major points that bugged me.

You are talking about Fe here over Fi.

I'm addressing the vibe ENFPs give off when they talk; as ENFPs are Fi users, this isn't likely.

The points you bolded in the inferior Fi description are not specific enough to unambigiously associate them with the Fi of ExTJ's. Especially as you did not relate to a lot of points that are highly relevant to inferior Fi as a concept on the whole.

I think part of it might be because I am picky about language. I suppose I could go back and re-write portions of it to show how it's similar but not quite the same for me.

Why?

Example of such a fictional character? (Just curious, not very relevant otherwise)

They tend to be characters who struggle against adaptation, at least in fictional worlds. They have a built up internal system of experiences that explain the world, and then struggle to adjust when the outside world suddenly shifts on them and begins acting outside of their expectations. Also, they tend to have significant internal struggles.

Great example would be Inspector Javert from Les Miserables.

When you have the time, elaborate on this a bit, just curious.

Eh...I don't remember enough of the theory anymore to go into detail on it. I barely remember the types themselves. I couldn't give you a thorough reason why anymore.

Whatever you called Si isn't Si or at least not high order Si. It's unclear whether you prefer T or F. Your Ne, possible that Ni is preferred over it, though not sure.

[/QUOTE]

Hmm. Well I do know that when I work through a project, my preference is facts + past experiences when determining how to something or if something is true. That's seems pretty Te/Si to me.

We can forget about the emotional resonance part, since that's not Si, and just focus on the minimal points I made before that paragraph.

 

[Sil]

My thoughts so far. ENTJ or ENFP/ENFJ. All other types out

I'll read up on them later today.

Lol, any Sensory type is out for you at this point. You are an Intuitive. No question about this.

Eh, I don't know about that. Although I see the world around me and then some, I'm not a person to sit in abstractions. I want things tied back into concrete application.

I don't care about concepts unless they have real-world relevance and implications (for light discussion, staying at conceptual level is fine, but ultimately it doesn't interest me).

Really poor personal understanding of Si, it's not your auxiliary or anything like that. You sound like Ni is highly preferred over Si as this Intuition here sounds the introverted form of it.

Haha, I'd be quicker to blame the description in this instance. I can always go ask the writer what he meant to get clarification.

Why are you hesitant to say that it's your default? I'd really like to hear about this more.

I'll have to think on this some more, but I'd say it's largely a gut feeling based on observation of how ENFPs and ENTPs interact with the world. There are similarities, to be sure, but there are major differences.

Also, on a larger level, if we are discussing the J/P dichotomy (which would be leaving cognitive function-land), I'm more likely a J.

Ni is strong.

Maybe, but I still feel Ne is stronger. I don't experience the "ah ha" moments Ni users speak of.

OK. Can you give me a real life example of how you have to ask others to confirm what way people are feeling about whatever?

Sure. A close personal friend is not behaving like they normally would at a party. I can tell something is wrong because their behavior doesn't match how they normally act, but I can't tell what's wrong (let's assume there's no obvious deduce-able cause). So I ask them if they are upset.

I find it interesting you say you can't act against the value-feelings. What do you mean by this exactly?

You're overthinking it. Basically, if it comes down to others' values over mine, I'm doing mine. It's a lot easier to live with pissing off other peoples' values than to ignore my own and deal with the internal conflict that results.

This one does not sound like T > F.

Are we discussing letters or cognitive functions?

Not specific enough to tell what this is. On the surface it does not go against any of the possible type options left.

Ti isn't your most preferred function but this wasn't a question anyway was it.

When you say "Si reacts first", please explain in everyday words what you mean by this.

I agree, every function has some sort of awareness mentally, that's just logical. It's not the same as Perceiving, though. Also, every function will make decisions if we define decision-making as the function coming to a conclusion on something, just the Perceiving functions will not judge data like the Judging functions will. For example, Se will come to the conclusion that your laptop is there. This is a decision but not a Rational one. The object is simply seen and accepted as that, not judged.

Ran out of time. Be back later.

 

[Sil]

Perhaps the easiest solution is for you to link me descriptions of the cog functions you find accurate, and I can go through them.

 

[chubber]

Come to my lair so that I can test drive this new handy cordless grinder on your skull. Maybe we will find a rainbow in side. Who knows!

 

[chubber]

On a serious note. Have you had a chance to paste inferior Fe and inferior Ni?

And do you relate?

 

[Sil]

On a serious note. Have you had a chance to paste inferior Fe and inferior Ni?

And do you relate?

Just read this and damn, it was very highly relatable.

[INTP] Recognizing the Inferior Function in INTP

 

[Sil]

Come to my lair so that I can test drive this new handy cordless grinder on your skull. Maybe we will find a rainbow in side. Who knows!

A single rainbow? I'd like to think I'm a double rainbow, triple if we're counting karma.

 

[Sil]

I can go through that inferior Fe description for INTPs in awhile and detail which parts stand out to me.

 

[EJCC]

[MENTION=22628]Sil[/MENTION] I'd recommend checking out the descriptions from "Was That Really Me?" by Naomi Quenk. You can find various excerpts online for free.

 

[Sil]

[MENTION=22628]Sil[/MENTION] I'd recommend checking out the descriptions from "Was That Really Me?" by Naomi Quenk. You can find various excerpts online for free.

That's what I've pulled for inferior function descriptions. The inferior Fe really struck me.

 

[existence]

Hmmmm...okay. Well if that's the case, that clears up a lot about whether or not I'm a different type than ESTJ. That was one of the major points that bugged me.

I could see that

I'm addressing the vibe ENFPs give off when they talk; as ENFPs are Fi users, this isn't likely.

Ah, misunderstanding there.

I think part of it might be because I am picky about language. I suppose I could go back and re-write portions of it to show how it's similar but not quite the same for me.

Oh pickiness is fine - and you've just said now that Fi inferior isn't exactly what you have?

They tend to be characters who struggle against adaptation, at least in fictional worlds. They have a built up internal system of experiences that explain the world, and then struggle to adjust when the outside world suddenly shifts on them and begins acting outside of their expectations. Also, they tend to have significant internal struggles.

Great example would be Inspector Javert from Les Miserables.

Right, I see.

Eh...I don't remember enough of the theory anymore to go into detail on it. I barely remember the types themselves. I couldn't give you a thorough reason why anymore.

No worries, it was just curiosity.

Hmm. Well I do know that when I work through a project, my preference is facts + past experiences when determining how to something or if something is true. That's seems pretty Te/Si to me.

We can forget about the emotional resonance part, since that's not Si, and just focus on the minimal points I made before that paragraph.

You mean this yes? "I often use this 1) when I am trying to remember how to do something I've done before, but don't recall how exactly to do it or 2) when I have to find my way back from somewhere (basically anything with directions where I don't actually have any directions)."

1st one again does not sound like high order Si. 2nd one is pretty generic.

Te, that does sound like it's there.

I'll read up on them later today.

OK let me know how you like them.

Eh, I don't know about that. Although I see the world around me and then some, I'm not a person to sit in abstractions. I want things tied back into concrete application.

I don't care about concepts unless they have real-world relevance and implications (for light discussion, staying at conceptual level is fine, but ultimately it doesn't interest me).

When you say "the present is always filled with some abstractual context" it sounds like you do live a lot in abstractions; this doesn't exclude wanting things tied back to concrete application. Which can be your Te.

Haha, I'd be quicker to blame the description in this instance. I can always go ask the writer what he meant to get clarification.

If you want, do that, sure. But I think the description is fine, standard MBTI.

I'll have to think on this some more, but I'd say it's largely a gut feeling based on observation of how ENFPs and ENTPs interact with the world. There are similarities, to be sure, but there are major differences.

Also, on a larger level, if we are discussing the J/P dichotomy (which would be leaving cognitive function-land), I'm more likely a J.

Yes I get the same impression from you - J.

Maybe, but I still feel Ne is stronger. I don't experience the "ah ha" moments Ni users speak of.

How do you like this, the Auxiliary Ni here?

Sure. A close personal friend is not behaving like they normally would at a party. I can tell something is wrong because their behavior doesn't match how they normally act, but I can't tell what's wrong (let's assume there's no obvious deduce-able cause). So I ask them if they are upset.

How would you usually deduce the cause?

You're overthinking it. Basically, if it comes down to others' values over mine, I'm doing mine. It's a lot easier to live with pissing off other peoples' values than to ignore my own and deal with the internal conflict that results.

Nope, not overthinking it. Certainly not more than you.

Are we discussing letters or cognitive functions?

The T/F and S/N dichotomies are directly linked to the cognitive functions Ti/Te Fi/Fe and Se/Si Ne/Ni.

Perhaps the easiest solution is for you to link me descriptions of the cog functions you find accurate, and I can go through them.

The one you used was fine.

 

[chubber]

So my guess is going to be, do you think you might relate to ISTP?

ISTP and ESTJ are:

Ti Se Ni Fe
Te Si Ne Fi

or T S N F for both.

Nothing is cast in concrete yet. I'm also wondering, why you believe 8 is the one for you. What do you think of 5w6 or 7w8? Just curious.

 

[Sil]

[MENTION=22628]Sil[/MENTION] I'd recommend checking out the descriptions from "Was That Really Me?" by Naomi Quenk. You can find various excerpts online for free.

Is this considered a pretty solid resource?

 

[chubber]

Just read this and damn, it was very highly relatable.

[INTP] Recognizing the Inferior Function in INTP

Is this considered a pretty solid resource?

She is referring to your own link that you already checked out. Your link comes from that book.

 

[Sil]

Inferior Fe:

Bolded are things that resonate.


Introverted Thinking Types
I S T P a n d I N T P

BASIC TYPE DYNAMICS
Dominant Introverted Thinking
Auxiliary Extraverted Sensing or Intuition
Tertiary Intuition or Sensing
Inferior Extraverted Feeling

by Naomi L. Quenk


Important Features of Dominant Introverted Thinking

Introverted Thinking types maintain the utmost objectivity. They approach people and events as dispassionate observers, with the goal of arriving at the most comprehensive truth possible.The process of objective analysis is a source of great enjoyment for the Introverted Thinking type, with its outcome often of much lesser importance. Introverted Thinking types typically do not take constructive criticism and disagreement personally.They often welcome tough, unrelenting critique as an aid to achieving the highest levels of accuracy and objectivity.

Because they do not take criticism personally, ISTPs and INTPs are often surprised to discover that others are hurt or offended by their constructive criticism. Others often see them as distant, unfeeling, disinterested in people, and arrogant—all characteristics that they disavow. The fact that they may appear to have these qualities is a function of their basic typological approach, which applies objective analysis to most things, including people.


Achievement and satisfaction at work are as central to the identity of Introverted Thinking types as they are for their Extraverted Thinking counterparts. In general, however, ISTPs and especially INTPs report less satisfaction with their work situations than do ESTJs and ENTJs. A corporate environment that emphasizes management of people, observable team efforts, and outer-world results often forces Introverts to use their less-preferred form of energy. This can be particularly difficult for Introverted Thinking types because they are most energized when they can work independently and with intense focus on challenging problems.

ISTPs’ auxiliary Sensing function motivates them to prefer clear, stable structures and responsibilities at work. In that context, they enjoy active involvement in concrete, tangible efforts. One ISTP likes “breaking down problems into manageable steps and finding solutions that work for everyone,” another likes “solving problems and building things,” and a third favors “a variety of issues requiring my attention; a fast-paced environment with lots of problem-solving requirements.”“Solving problems and building things” is most energizing for an ISTP in his early twenties.

INTPs’ auxiliary Intuition emerges in their desire to be creative, independent, and resourceful in solving problems.An INTP said,“I love doing good, competent work that makes a difference for my clients. I enjoy the collegial and intellectually rigorous environment.” An INTP in her early twenties mentioned “having a challenge that I successfully overcome.”

INTPs enjoy devising new systems and putting ideas together in different ways. Both of the Introverted Thinking types want the highest level of autonomy and the freedom to solve problems in their own way. As one ISTP explained, “I want the freedom to use my time in my own way, to spend as much time as necessary thinking.”

Important Features of Dominant Extraverted Feeling

Typical Sensitivities and Projections


Introverted Thinking types may notice and comment on what they consider to be inappropriate, irrelevant, even histrionic communication styles and behavior, which they often attribute to Extraverted Feeling types or Extraverted Intuitive types with auxiliary Feeling (ENFPs).They may treat such people with disdain and in turn may be seen as hypercritical, dismissive, and lacking in social graces.

Introverted Thinking types may assess behavior based on subjective values as “noise in the system” that interferes with the accurate appraisal of situations and is therefore a waste of time. Extraverted Feeling types can seem out of control to them.The higher value that ESFJs and ENFJs place on harmony over logically determined truth arouses distrust in the Introverted Thinking type, who then doubts these types’ intellectual abilities.

Like their Extraverted Thinking counterparts, Introverted Thinking types may therefore interpret other peoples’ need for frequent personal validation as weakness and insecurity.

Because Introverted Thinking types value logical Thinking and objective analysis of situations, they do not see much value in idle conversation and social small talk. They may feel inept and awkward when situations require this of them, and their discomfort, inexperience, and lack of understanding of this kind of social interaction often leads them to “put my foot in my mouth and say exactly the most inappropriate thing,” as one INTP expressed it. “I then feel really inadequate and foolish and I can dwell on my ineptness for days,” he explained.

As for expressing their own Feeling side,Von Franz (1971) states that the feeling of the introverted thinking type is extraverted. He has the same kind of strong, loyal and warm feeling described as typical for the extraverted thinking type, but with the difference that the feeling of the introverted thinking type flows toward definite objects. (p. 41)

Those definite objects may be people, causes, spiritual arenas, and so on. In their raw, inexperienced form, these Feeling expressions come out as clichés and sound sentimental and excessive. Sensing this, Introverted Thinking types hesitate to express them and may do so only in the relative safety of close one-on-one relationships.

Expressions Through Interests and Hobbies


Many ISTPs and INTPs have a passion for challenging but primarily solitary physical activities.They may be avid mountain or rock climbers and serious hikers or backpackers.They describe having a deep emotional and spiritual reaction to wilderness experiences and their oneness with the universe. The mountain, trail, or rock can become the “other” in their experience of intense feeling.

One INTP mountain climber writes emotionally evocative poetry describing his reactions to his climbing experiences.An ISTP police lieutenant loves listening to music of the Romantic era, especially Wagner. Another ISTP enjoys reading romance novels and an INTP reads spiritual literature. Another INTP covers both auxiliary Sensing and inferior Feeling in her relaxation activities. She described her pleasure in a “sensory trip” to a nearby small town, where she quickly checks out the bookstore, listens to music, sits in the park, eats ice cream, and reflects on the week. She also engages in deep conversation with an ESFJ friend and makes special cards to express her appreciation or love to special people.

Tertiary Sensing often shows in the hobbies of INTPs. They mention gardening, cooking, knitting, and playing golf or other sports that require individual skill. ISTPs may engage tertiary Intuition through such activities as visiting museums or reading art books. One ISTP’s elaborate model train boards create complex, evocative scenes, complete with stories about the tiny figures and their lives in the towns he depicts.


Eruptions of Inferior Extraverted Feeling


When one or more of the preconditions for an eruption of the inferior function are present, Extraverted Feeling appears in its more exaggerated, disruptive form.

Typical Provocations or Triggers


Being around people who are expressing strong emotions can serve as a trigger for Introverted Thinking types, especially if those people are criticizing the personal characteristics of the ISTP or INTP. Dealing with incompetence also serves as a major trigger. And, as is the case for Extraverted Thinking types, ISTPs and INTPs can be pushed into the grip when their own strong values and feelings are not recognized or affirmed.

Others’ insensitivity to an Introverted Thinking type’s need for silence and solitude—“not enough time to recharge,” said one INTP—can also provoke the experience.The short-term, intense stress of a crisis situation, especially if others are expressing strong emotions and the ISTP or INTP is expected to respond to the emotion, is also a stimulus to the inferior function. Introverted Thinking types may themselves react with an uncharacteristic display of emotion or readily take offense at such times.

Other triggers are feeling controlled by arbitrary situations that limit their freedom of choice and action, and feeling that others are intruding on their space. Being treated unfairly and feeling unheard, unvalued, and excluded from important decision-making discussions can also push these types into their inferior function. An INTP covered many triggers to inferior Extraverted Feeling in her description: “other people becoming very emotional, excessive control from other people, others encroaching on my responsibilities, having to rely on others who—I feel—are not competent.”

In projecting their inferior Extraverted Feeling onto others, Introverted Thinking types can readily see others’ easy expression of emotion as hysterical and out of control. Because of their fear of being consumed by strong, uncontrollable emotions, they assume that any expression of emotion is similarly out of bounds. ISTPs and INTPs may try to leave a situation in which highly charged feelings are being expressed, and if that is not possible, they may react with a full-blown episode of their inferior function.

Triggers and Stressors at Work


Introverted Thinking types find being micromanaged, supervising and working with incompetent, uncooperative people, and dealing with an overwhelming workload to be major sources of stress and dissatisfaction at work. Deadlines and an excessive workload can interfere with their need for time to focus in depth on the problems they are trying to solve for their organization. Incompetent people inhibit their reaching a solution or acquiring necessary information, and onerous, rigid supervision wastes their time and insults their sense of competence. One INTP listed as stressful “paperwork, especially if the purpose is unclear; overly directive managers and situations in which my autonomy is compromised; pointless meetings; and large ‘networking’ events.” An ISTP said, “Don’t tell me I can’t do something and try to restrict my freedom.”

Both types, especially INTPs, find it stressful when they don’t have sufficient time to be alone and introvert, which makes multiple meetings and meandering agendas particularly noxious for them. Both types are as stressed when strong emotions are displayed at work, an event that often engages their inferior Extraverted Feeling.An INTP described her stressors as “emotionalized situations and interpersonal conflict.” An ISTP said he finds it stressful “when individuals get hung up on their personal preferences—refusing to let their emotions take a backseat, which becomes an obstacle.”

In a work situation in which the particular stressors for Introverted Thinking types persist over a long period, an ISTP or INTP may be pushed into the grip very quickly and powerfully by the triggers described here. His or her subsequent demonstrations of “grip” behavior are likely to be frequent and pervasive.

When persistent stress causes these types to be chronically in the grip of inferior Extraverted Feeling, episodes of intellectual inefficiency and poor use of logic can become habitual. Their typical and “normal” moderate dissatisfaction with their work situation can also become chronic. They may complain continually about others’ incompetence and the irrationality of management.They are likely to feel singled out for victimization and may imagine elaborate but baseless “conspiracies” being hatched by co-workers or supervisors that are designed to make the ISTP or INTP look bad and exclude him or her from decision-making roles at work. One INTP described this as “feeling paranoid.”

INTPs tend to find more areas of life to be stressful than do ISTPs, and they have fewer available ways of coping with stress than any other type. However, ISTPs report the second-highest frequency (ISFPs being first) of hypertension and heart disease. INTPs, like INFPs, report these conditions relatively infrequently.


The Form of the Inferior

As the Introverted Thinking type’s conscious control of differentiated Thinking starts to diminish, use of that dominant function along with auxiliary Sensing or Intuition becomes increasingly difficult.The internal struggle for control may be largely unobserved by others. But as time goes on, others may notice a certain slowness, vagueness, and distractibility replacing the sharp acuity that they are used to seeing in the ISTP or INTP.

Introverted Thinking types report becoming illogical, inefficient, unfocused, and scattered.An INTP described becoming “emotional, edgy, disorganized, obsessive about details, confused, closed. Usually I am easygoing, centered, and creative and see lots of options.” An ISTP reported becoming “confused, disorganized, unable to focus. I lose track of my organizational strategies and get messy.” A young ISTP described himself as “slow and dimwitted, forgetting stuff all the time.”And a youthful INTP said, “I lack the mental energy and clarity that I ordinarily maintain. I’m not able to concentrate at all. I become completely illogical.”

As inferior Extraverted Feeling becomes more prominent in the demeanor of the Introverted Thinking type, it comes out in the form of logic being emphasized to an extreme, hypersensitivity to relationships, and emotionalism. For ISTPs, tertiary Intuition may aid and abet these forms, appearing as a conviction of some imagined “pattern” of others’ uncaring neglect of the ISTP’s needs and feelings. For INTPs, tertiary Sensing takes the form of an obsessive review of the facts and details that prove that others neglect the INTP’s needs and feelings.


Logic Emphasized to an Extreme


Effective dominant Extraverted Feeling types are quite comfortable making decisions that are not logical. Introverted Thinking types in the grip of inferior Extraverted Feeling may become passionately insistent on the application of logic, becoming quite emotional about their approach. As an extension of their loss of control over the Thinking function, the Introverted Thinking type begins to engage in excessively logical, unproductive thinking. There may be an obsessive quality to this thinking. One ISTP feels compelled to “prove” the accuracy of his perception of things. An INTP said, “If a problem comes up that I’m unable to resolve, I work at it anyway and can’t let go of it, even if I know I can’t solve it.”

Other Introverted Thinking types report becoming less articulate, speaking rapidly and disjointedly, and using sharp, clear, but “paranoid” logic.They may find that they forget things, misplace objects, and engage in futile projects that don’t accomplish anything and are marked by disorganization.

Hypersensitivity to Relationships


Effective dominant Extraverted Feeling types value their relationships with others.They carefully consider the well-being of others in making decisions and devote energy and enthusiasm to personal and social interactions. In the grip of inferior Extraverted Feeling, the Introverted Thinking type experiences increasing hypersensitivity to “Feeling” areas.And just as Extraverted Thinking types struggle to maintain controlled efficiency and competency when in the initial grip of the inferior function, so ISTPs and INTPs valiantly try to hide their formerly alien concerns with being liked and appreciated. In this unfamiliar state, they overinterpret or misinterpret others’ innocent comments or body language.“I nail someone and babble forever about my feelings and all the terrible things ‘they’ are doing to me,” said an ISTP.However, to the Introverted Thinking type, the perceived slights are accurate and authentic.

Something as innocuous as someone failing to say hello upon entering a room, or briefly interrupting a conversation to greet a passerby, may be interpreted as an indicator of dislike and disapproval. ISTPs and INTPs tend to feel discounted when others do not listen to them attentively. “I tend to be emotionally hypersensitive when I’m ‘not myself.’ It’s extraordinarily different from my usual state of logical ‘emotional detachment,’” said an INTP.

Others are usually slow to catch on to the altered state of the Introverted Thinking type, as was noted earlier for Extraverted Thinking types. Distress, anxiety, and annoyance are typically expressed with minimal cues—a raised eyebrow, a distant look, or other subtle body language may be the only signal. Further, family, friends, and colleagues, who are in the habit of trusting the person’s careful, objective analysis of people and events, are likely to take the ISTP’s or INTP’s conclusions as objectively true. They have little reason to doubt, for example, that the boss doesn’t appreciate the INTP and won’t let him do a particular project. They about things may be judged irrelevant to the problem at hand and therefore as interfering with logical decision making. In contrast, Feeling types typically consider such data entirely relevant to their decisions.Their primary decision-making criteria include personal values, feelings, and consequences for important people and institutions.

Due to limited experience, therefore, Thinking types’ emotional expression lacks the differentiation and subtlety of feeling seen in well-differentiated Feeling types.When positive feelings are involved, they may seem maudlin and sentimental.

One INTP said she becomes “mushy, sentimental, very outwardly emotional, and unpredictably so.”A young ISTP said,“At times I feel really emotional when I’m by myself thinking about things that normally wouldn’t bother me.”With greater intensity, inferior Feeling comes out as raw, extreme emotion. Feeling judgment seems to become increasingly exaggerated and obsessive, reaching a point where it no longer serves a judging purpose but becomes unbridled emotionalism.

“I am ‘hysterical.’ I believe that nobody likes me and I am worthless . . . [and] have nothing to contribute to society. Whereas normally I am very happy to be alone, when I am ‘not myself ’ I seek affirmation from everyone. I call all my friends until I feel better,” related an INTP. An ISTP said, “I talk about inner feelings and show emotions. I don’t usually do that; I also express criticism toward others—I usually keep it to myself.”

When the contents of this normally unconscious, primitive function rise to the surface, they appear as a loss of control over emotional expression. There are reports of irritability and difficulty in holding back frustration and anger. In early phases, the Introverted Thinking type may become fidgety, trembling, and sarcastic, stomping around and making verbal attacks, exaggerating and accusing others. In more extreme cases, there may be physical outbursts that include breaking things and attacking people.

An INTP college student was deeply involved in a research paper when some of his friends invited him to go to a carnival with them. He refused, but they persisted anyway.When one grabbed his pen and paper and teasingly refused to return them, he began yelling at her and grabbed her arm. Both he and his friends were surprised and frightened by the swiftness and intensity of his reaction.

Although expression of anger is common, especially in younger ISTPs and INTPs, often there is increasing self-pity and a sense of feeling neglected, unappreciated, and even victimized.With greater loss of control, Introverted Thinking types can burst into tears with no warning. One wrong word can trigger an emotional outburst accompanied by rage, crying, and rising emotionality. Some describe feeling as if all their emotions are all mixed up, released with uncharacteristic spontaneity.“I start to notice my own feelings and become moody and impatient; I deny to others that anything is wrong, but all the while I feel like I am drowning in emotions,” said one ISTP.Another described being “very emotional and unable to keep my reactions to situations under control.”

Not only are their own emotions problematic, but so are the emotional reactions of others. Some Introverted Thinking types say they cannot truly understand something in the Feeling arena if they haven’t actually experienced it. As a result, when they are in the grip of their inferior function, they find that emotions from others are upsetting and only intensify the magnitude of the situation. The three manifestations of the inferior function typically appear together. One INTP feels martyred and cannot help snapping, whining, and complaining to people. She reports becoming very emotional and a little irrational, unable to organize or problem-solve with her usual efficiency and competence. Another INTP describes feeling numb, frozen, or enraged, as well as exhausted and unable to concentrate.

Some describe an inability to keep their emotions to themselves, even though they wish to reveal little of their internal processes. In this state, said an ISTP, “I act out my displeasure rather than keeping it to myself as I am inclined to do. The actual acting out is usually brief, but feeling stressed out about it may last longer.”

Return of Equilibrium


As the preceding stories illustrate, equilibrium is often restored rather dramatically after an intense expression of emotion. However, when more short-lived experiences of the inferior are involved, Introverted Thinking types find that changing activities can aid the normalization process. What is most important for both ISTPs and INTPs is spending time alone, including exercising primarily alone. Introverted Thinking types need to be alone and physically separated from others, doing something they find enjoyable or relaxing.“I need alone time, to remove myself from the situation and to think about the problems, and then I need a close friend to help me analyze it,” said a young ISTP woman. Trying to identify the problem and wrestling with its solution are typical approaches for Introverted Thinking types, who find that reframing the cause of the distress is often helpful. “I need time to think through the issues,” said an INTP. “Others can help by affirming that my response is okay because the situation I’m in is unreasonable and stressful.They should not ask if I’m okay.”

Light problem solving that engages but doesn’t strain their Thinking, such as reading a mystery novel, can be helpful. Both types agree that they require time by themselves, that others need to leave them alone, and that it is most unhelpful for others to try to help them in any way, to ask how they feel, or to try to minimize their distress. Often there is little that others can do. Internal acceptance and calm are what is needed most.

Others can help most by staying out of the way and forgiving the out-of-character
behavior.A trusted person’s physical presence is not intrusive, but psychological space should be respected. It is also helpful if someone close to them can gently encourage them to talk about their feelings after sufficient time has passed. However, many Introverted Thinking types report that the very worst thing someone can do is ask them how they feel about things.

Summary


In the grip of inferior Extraverted Feeling, Introverted Thinking types have difficulty functioning at their typical level of cognitive acuity, are hypersensitive to relationship issues, and can be touchy and emotional. Equilibrium is often reestablished via their auxiliary Sensing or Intuition. ISTPs acknowledge one or more important realities bearing on their situation; INTPs find a new idea or perspective that interrupts and modifies their exaggerated sensitivity or emotionalism.

- - - Updated - - -

She is referring to your own link that you already checked out. Your link comes from that book.

Yes, I know. I just want to confirm that this is a recognized and accepted source for understanding cognitive functions.

 

[Sil]

I just read through the description of Ni inferior.

I'd paste it, but it's in a protected book format. So no go.

Anyways, I relate to pretty much none of it.

It talks about ESFPs being mostly present focused, preferring to only plan a little ways down the road. One of the biggest triggers of stress is having to make decisions about future possibilites, having to focus excessively on the future, having to create structure relating to the future.

Since I live mostly in the future, none of those things stress me out.

The book also mentions that Ni inferior types find structure, routine, and time frames to be stressful. Although I find routine to be boring, structure and time frames are largely helpful for me.

In the grip of the inferior, ESFPs become more quiet and introverted. For me, when I am under stress, I don't become any more quiet or introverted than normal, I just tend to spend more time to myself.

It also mentions that ESFPs often have a fear of being viewed by others as incompetent or lacking in intelligence because of their present-moment approach to life. I've never had this concern. I'm also not present focused (I know I'm repeating this ad nauseum).

The book also discusses how ESFPs tend to get caught up in a swirl of negative possibilities when stressed...this isn't me.


However, it does mention that when stressed, ESFPs experience internal confusion and experience uncharacteristic, strange fantasies.

I don't relate to the internal confusion; I would describe it for myself more as a loss of internal control.

Uncharacteristic fantasies...sometimes when stressed I will imagine a crazy hypothetical, which I will then play out in my head until it becomes so absurd it's funny. At which point I've forgotten what I was stressed about (was caught up following the crazy idea to its crazy end) and feel better. But I doubt this is what the ESFP description is referring to. It sounds like the ESFP takes these very seriously when dominated by the inferior function in a stressful situation.

 

[Sil]

So my guess is going to be, do you think you might relate to ISTP?

ISTP and ESTJ are:

Ti Se Ni Fe
Te Si Ne Fi

or T S N F for both.

Nothing is cast in concrete yet. I'm also wondering, why you believe 8 is the one for you. What do you think of 5w6 or 7w8? Just curious.

Regarding ISTP:

TI DESCRIPTION

"Above all, I like to maintain a consistent outlook that fits well with the things I like to do and the way I like to do them. I'll stay out of your way and, as long as I offer you that courtesy, I expect the same in return. I like to work with things where I can figure out the best approach myself and then tweak and adjust the pieces and see or hear or smell an immediate change or improvement. If something isn't doing what I want it to, I need to be able to get my hands on it, figure out what makes it tick, and rebuild it how I want to without having to worry about it making sense to anyone else or getting approval from how they'd do it. More than anything, it's important that we let each other have the freedom to do what we want, when we want to--if I don't see that it's going to have any real impact or I don't think it makes any practical sense, I'm not going to do it."

ISTP is an often poorly understood type that embodies a number of seemingly contradictory characteristics and seems to confuse a lot of people. It's been suggested by some that ISTPs are so different from INTPs that they should not be seen as even having the same dominant function at all--but I contend that there quite a number of similarities between the two in principle, even if the outward expressions of these principles are approached in very different ways.

Above all, dominant Ti values a highly refined sense of universal correctness, fairness, and internal consistency. While ISTPs may not make this belief as overtly obvious as their oft-argumentative INTP cousins, they ultimately believe that fair is fair and there's no getting around the idea that some things are inherently more fair, more consistent, and more reasonable than others. The thing that makes this difficult to discern is that ISTPs are, by far, the least interested in debate of all four xxTP types. They'd much rather actively demonstrate their principles and ideals through concrete action than spend time sitting around trying to convince other people that they're right. While they may easily grasp the reasoning behind various abstract representations of logical reasoning (especially when tertiary Ni is developed), they simply don't see any reason to talk about it when they could be creating, building, or participating in something that generates realistically tangible representations of the structural and symmetrical relationships that fascinate their sense of global systemic consistency.

Inconsistent reasoning and poor logic irritate the ISTP just as much as they do the INTP; the ISTP is simply much less concerned with using abstracted hypothetical explanation to demonstrate why. Actions speak louder than words. Why should he bother with empty words and arguments when he can simply show you demonstrably what it is that represents the personal sense of structural completeness around which his values are centered?

Fiercely independent, resourceful, and self-reliant, ISTPs will tend to disregard or ignore outright any rule, law, or external expectation that doesn't fit their internal set of principles regarding what's inherently fair and reasonable. They are characteristically skeptical of any external attempt to compel them to behave in any particular way, as they feel that often the people designing and imposing these rules are neither logically-minded nor genuinely experienced in the areas of life that their frivolous rules and laws will impact most. Very few things upset the ISTP's core sense of fairness more than unreasonable attempts to restrict his freedom of action or impose the will of others upon his own.

Like most Ti types, ISTPs tend to have an interest in systems and the relationships and frameworks that make them fit together the way they do. They will pour extraordinary amounts of time into the study of these systems, but rarely through book study, never without hands-on experience, and not necessarily because they accomplish any particular goals--mostly just because internalizing and possessing complete understanding of all the variables that make up a complete system is inherently satisfying on its own.


SE DESCRIPTION

While INTPs will tend to apply Ti's structural curiosity to more hypothetical or theoretical systems like higher mathematics, philosophy, or programming, the ISTP's dominant Ti tends to filter through Se to produce an interest in physical and mechanical systems that can be observed, experienced, and demonstrated through tangible physical processes. ISTPs are fascinated by how things work, and they want to be able to hurl themselves head-on into the full experience of how those things work by getting their hands on them and associating present-moment physical sensations (Se) with an ever-growing sense of universal truth (Ti) about how the pieces of the puzzle fit together. They tend to specialize in areas where they can use their keen present-tense awareness of sensory cues to bolster their natural ability to deconstruct and solve structural puzzles: ISTPs are often involved with auto mechanics, building/repairing electronics, designing and building architecture, performing or recording music, and so on--anything where they can get their hands on it and figure out for themselves how it works, then use that to make it do something interesting or exciting.

In addition to this, Se tends to promote an interest in the physically thrilling, high-adrenaline activities often recognized as a calling card of SP types. Indeed, ISTPs seem to take great satisfaction in understanding the variables that relate their quick sensory responsiveness to the underlying structure of the tangible, physical world around them, to the art of kinetic movement itself and how it creates reactions from the external sensory environment. It's easy to see why so many of them enjoy building and working on cars/motorcycles/aircraft, audio/visual equipment, guns/swords and other weapons, or musical instruments--these are the very objects that grant them the exciting experiences (and accompanying opportunities to practice their sensory responsiveness) that make them feel most excited and imminently alive.

But Se also serves another very important purpose: Connecting the ISTP to a real sense of what will impact other people's tastes and impressions in an immediately recognizable and universally understandable way. Well-balanced ISTPs are almost invariably "the cool guy/girl" in their social groups--they know where to be, what to wear, what to say, and how to say it; more importantly, they are confident enough in their natural talent and adaptability in these areas that, unlike ESTPs, they are keenly aware of how little they actually have to say in order to maintain that impression.

The peculiar relationship between Ti's desire for obscure systemic knowledge and Se's desire to maintain an image of smooth, nonchalant, effortless awareness of what's current and desirable leads to a rather fascinating conflict for many ISTPs: Constantly caught between "Ti nerdy" and "Se cool", they straddle the line between different worlds.

One of my favorite of examples of this phenomenon comes from the short-lived TV series Freaks and Geeks, where James Franco's ISTP character, Daniel Desario, is forced to join his high school's AV Club as punishment for pulling the fire alarm to get out of taking a test. At first he is angry about the news: AV Club? Isn't that a bunch of nerds? Oh God, nobody can possibly keep thinking I'm cool if I'm stuck doing this kind of boring crap (Se)! But later in the episode, another character sneaks into the AV room after hours and discovers Daniel in the back with the movie projector, poring over a schematic diagram of its functions and experimenting (hands-on, of course) with how it works. No matter how uncool Se may say AV Club is, he can't escape Ti's fascination with the inner workings of a complex mechanical system.

As ISTPs develop increasingly stronger Se, their awareness of others' immediate impressions of them combines with an uncanny knack for reading body language to grant them a surprisingly proficient awareness of the motivations of others. While they may not be able to expressly articulate what another person is thinking or planning, they often show exceptional talent with "gut feelings" that someone is not genuine, or is dishonest, or not confident, or hiding something. As a case in point, Doyle Brunson (that old guy with the cowboy hat you see playing poker on TV), often credited as "The Godfather of Poker", seems almost certainly ISTP in his exceptional command of body language and the astounding accuracy of his instinctive assessments of opponents at the live poker table.

On the downside, ISTPs can suffer anger issues with people they see as illogical or wrong-headed, and Se may lead them to physically demonstrate this anger through direct threats of physical violence, or worse--actually following through with them. Because the ISTP needs to be building his own understanding in order to continue with an activity, once he feels he is no longer learning or experiencing anything of value, he may become highly unreliable and abruptly drop out of projects or leave important obligations unfulfilled. The ISTP's polarized energy level may shift wildly from extreme excitement/frenzied action over a new and exciting activity to lengthy periods of non-productive burnout and back again, which can make her seem totally inert to outsiders who have not yet witnessed her in the active, excited phase.

This may lead to a tendency to drop people, things, groups, and interests as soon as they cease to generate immediate fulfillment--and as the ISTP is fundamentally introverted, he may not care at all how others perceive this inconsistent dedication/difficulty with commitment and may seem to abruptly disappear from all areas of life for weeks or months at a time, before randomly showing up and jumping back in as if nothing had ever happened. Most of my ISTP acquaintances are people that I see frequently for several months, and then not at all for several more--I've come to realize they don't mean any offense; it's just the way their cycle works.



NI DESCRIPTION

Interestingly, despite their (somewhat accurate) reputation as apathetic loners, ISTPs typically feel strongly enough about their principles that they may even resort to vigilante justice in order to set things right with the world when legitimate establishments of law enforcement have failed to produce a just or consistent result. They're typically quite mindful of not stepping on other people's toes, but if you step on theirs, be prepared for a swift and unexpected backlash. Somewhat like INFJs, who share all of the same function attitudes, ISTPs in the grip of Ti+Ni may fantasize about using their superior strength and physical prowess (Se) to take revenge on people who unjustly bring harm to the innocent. "Eye for an eye" is often seen as the purest and most physically real affirmation of the sense of justice that factors so heavily into the ISTP's personal value judgments.

When undeveloped, tertiary Ni most frequently manifests itself in terms of semi-paranoid distrust of "the man" or of authority figures or anyone who may have the power to force the ISTP into any situation or role from which he does not have the option to escape when he wants to. This kind of cynicism may even lead the ISTP to claim some sort of supernatural foresight; he may doggedly insist that he "just knows" something to be the case despite total inability to explain why or display any physical evidence thereof. He may come to believe anything he does is simply playing into exactly what some unseen, evil "puppet master" of sorts wants him to do, and thus may insist that the situation is hopeless because he already knows how it's all going to end up.

When applied more positively in a more developed state, tertiary Ni should bolster the ISTP's natural fluency with sensory cues by giving him deeper insight into the symbolic or suggestive meaning of the constant flow of outward sensory information he is normally attuned to. Rather than simply note what is and move on to noting something else that is, he will begin to consider the assumptions inherent in the set of rules he assumes must govern the way he interprets and evaluates that information, which, in time, will grant his "gut instincts" far more substantial meaning and accuracy by linking them to a deliberate purpose with much more far-reaching implications.

Ni should ideally help the ISTP to feel even more completely free: she will realize she can adapt not only her present actions, but also her entire outlook and attitude according to whatever the immediacy of the moment demands: nothing can ever shake her composure because she can simply change her mindset to fit her surroundings.

When Se is poorly developed, and a TiNi loop results, the ISTP loses all desire to connect or exchange information with others in any meaningful way. He becomes extraordinarily self-centered, acting out his subconscious Se desires through increasingly impulsive (and possibly even dangerous or violent) outbursts, insistent that he is the only one who "has it all figured out", that all the small-minded fools surrounding him are running a pointless rat race for nothing, and that he does not and should not ever have anything to prove to such unworthy and insignificant creatures.

He may delve further and further into bitter cynicism and conspiracy theorist behavior, as Ni develops increasingly outlandish interpretations to justify Ti's all-important desire to view the self as the only remaining bastion of consistency and truth in a purposeless world that cares for neither. Nihilism and hopelessness invariably result.

Ultimately, tertiary Ni should grant the well-balanced ISTP a unique sense of worldly wisdom. Already generally subdued by nature, his calm, quiet confidence will be nearly unshakable, as he will find the ability to separate himself from the tribulations of everyday problems enough to realize that eventually, everything is going to be fine, so we may as well just focus on dealing with what's in front of us and trust that everything else will fall into place the way it's supposed to. Development of tertiary Ni often coincides with a time in the ISTP's life where he retreats into a period of serious self-reflection and emerges with a far more calm and stable sense of philosophic purpose and global awareness.


FE DESCRIPTION

As the weakest point in the ISTP's cognitive hierarchy, Fe presents some substantial issues for the "lone wolf" persona in which he so often finds himself entrenched. Insistent on figuring things out for himself and living life his own way, the ISTP is prone to ignoring his emotional and interpersonal needs as long as he can possibly get away with it. He may become increasingly stressed as he realizes that without some form of permanency or obligation, some sense of connectedness to a group or purpose larger than himself and his own personal needs and desires, he feels as though his life is simply running in circles and never reaching any meaningful conclusions.

Inferior F types (IxTP, ExTJ) tend, by nature, to be utterly clueless when it comes to expressing or even acknowledging their emotional needs, and may resort to displaying them through rather bizarre, confusing, and even childish behaviors. For most ISTPs, Se serves as the only comfortable link to the external world, the only way they understand how to bridge the gap between their internal ideals and the expectations and aesthetics of others. Thus, Fe is often expressed in a way that becomes slanted by Se's tendencies: ISTPs care a lot more about their family and friends than they are able to express verbally, and since actions speak louder than words, in moments of extreme stress, they may demonstrate their cultural and familial obligations by physically attacking or forcibly removing anyone or anything which threatens the sense of moral fiber upon which their families, social groups, or communities are founded.

This may simultaneously impress and disturb others, as friends and family are often surprised to see that the ISTP even cares enough about them to do anything protective in the first place, but also upset that s/he chooses such directly physical means of expressing the importance of his relationship to them. The ISTP may often be seen as emotionally unaware and even incapable of emotional expression, and while she may resent this suggestion, she often does little to nothing to counteract it until the perfect moment arises: in a flash of daring bravado, a selfless act of unexpected chivalry or intense but unexpressed loyalty will allow the ISTP to release the build-up of subconscious tension and guilt over her insensitivity to the collective needs and ethical expectations of her loved ones. She simply cannot respond to or consciously acknowledge these needs easily because they seem to threaten the sense of individually-defined identity and freedom that she holds so dearly.

The central conflict for ISTPs struggling with inferior Fe is their insistence upon absolute personal freedom at all times, and the seemingly disingenuous nature of participating in familial or cultural ritual when dominant Ti can't see any reasonable or logical purpose for it. Accepting objectively derived concepts of morality or interpersonal obligation threatens the prized ability to change or escape any undesired situation on a moment's notice. The ISTP feels threatened by expectations of others upon him to behave in ways he does not find reasonable; however, he must confront the fact that he does require some relationships with others to feel completely fulfilled, and that eventually most people will tire of his simultaneous expectations to be accommodated and refusal to accommodate their needs in return.

Again, it's most important to remember that for ISTPs, actions speak louder than words. Expecting them to verbalize their feelings on a regular basis is likely to meet with condescension and resentment; however, leaving them enough space to do as they please will almost invariably produce enough appreciation that, in time, their occasional shows of good faith will develop into a more complete awareness of the needs of their friends and family, as they will gradually realize that coming to collective moral agreements for defining and strengthening interpersonal bonds actually makes all the logical sense in the world.

Learning to accept and embrace some degree of cultural expectations will grant the ISTP both a more objective method of self-evaluation, and a much more balanced sense of consistent reliability. (It also doesn't hurt that, as they get older and social expectations change, accepting more responsibility actually makes them look a lot cooler and more aware of external reality!)