[MBTI General] ISTJs Explained By ISTJs: Post your questions here!

[avolkiteshvara]

There seems to be alot of "if I don't like a rule, I have to think about it a while and figure out what to do" which implies that there is some loyalty to structure and norms, even if you don't agree with that structure.


Whats the hesitation?



What would a minority SJ rebellion look like against a non-SJ majority?

 

[Habba]

There seems to be alot of "if I don't like a rule, I have to think about it a while and figure out what to do" which implies that there is some loyalty to structure and norms, even if you don't agree with that structure.

Whats the hesitation?

I for one see destruction and chaos (= changing the structure) as a setback to progress. I don't think that things should be torn apart even if they would be little messed up... it's still a far better option than the lack of structure. So I see playing along and changing things little-by-little would be more progressful (spelling?) than wreaking havoc on the system.

What would a minority SJ rebellion look like against a non-SJ majority?

In such a rare case that SJs would be rebelling, I think it might be a rebellion against anarchy and chaos. A yearning for structure and balance. Or maybe a conservationist outbreak, like male priests refusing to work with female priests.

I think that rebellion is pretty much a NF thing, since they are the ones with wild ideas.

 

[Habba]

I've got a bunch of questions for you, but please don't feel obliged to answer them all unless you really want to.

You make a request and say we don't need to fulfill it if we don't want to. How more subtle can you be with getting what you want with ISTJs?

We are such a suckers for requests...

What was adolescence like for you? Did you have a rebellious period, and what was it like?

I always wondered how it would be like to be adult... until the day I noticed I've been wondering the same thing for over 15 years, and I felt I hadn't changed a bit. So growing up wasn't really a big change for me, I have always been pretty much what I'm now... well, maybe I've learned to overcome my natural shyness and fright of social situations a bit, but that's pretty much it.

I never rebelled, and never understood people who rebelled just for the sake of it. I place no value on independency as such. And harmony is always so much better than the opposite.

Like Sam Spade, I felt there weren't really that many people I could relate to. Funny, isn't it... I have the most common male type, and I feel like there's no one else like me.

How important was it to you to do well at school (or further studies)?

It's not as much about the grades as it is about obeying the system and the authority. I always did my homework on time and did my best when asked to. But I never read for exams or did any extra work for better grades.

What is your opinion of people with qualifications such as Doctorate or Masters degrees? Do they automatically gain your respect?

I'm little suspicious of doctors... some of them are so absorbed by their expertise that they lack a layman's perspective and thus can not really communicate their ideas with other people very effectively. But generally I do respect people of high education a lot. I even contempt the ordinary working men for their ignorance for the greater scheme of things.

My profession is my obsession and passion. If you work without either of them, you are being untrue to yourself. And I see ordinary working people, who are just doing their jobs, as such people who are untrue to themselves.

Have you ever lost your temper and exploded emotionally (raising your voice, screaming, crying)? What brought it on?

Yes I have. Few times with my football team when they are not giving me proper respect and are failing to play at their own level. I'm especially subject to explode at people who are not giving everything for the team.

So mostly when people do not pay respect/dedication to me or my team/community I see I or we have deserved.


Darn... I run out of forms to fill! Quick, more questions!

 

[raz]

There seems to be alot of "if I don't like a rule, I have to think about it a while and figure out what to do" which implies that there is some loyalty to structure and norms, even if you don't agree with that structure.


Whats the hesitation?



What would a minority SJ rebellion look like against a non-SJ majority?

For me, questioning a rule within a system isn't just about proving a logical inconsistency or a moral injustice. It's about proving why it's wrong, how it's portrayed, how it could be fixed, and why it's being fixed. The goal is to keep a working system, not question rules.

 

[entropie]

Is it true that ISTJs eat a bar of steel before they go to bed ?

 

[Habba]

Is it true that ISTJs eat a bar of steel before they go to bed ?

 

[entropie]

kewl

One idea here: can I hit that hot accountant in my office then with a steel bar over the head to drag her into my cave; and if later she should sue me for it, I can tell the court that she must have hit herself trieing to eat her daily steel bar, cause an innocent entp would not even posses that ?

 

[Unique]

I find that most people who do the SJ bashing are not interested in understanding SJs in general. Mostly they want to play the rare and special victim because there are certain easy perks and rewards that come with acting that way. And to continue with those rewards they have to create and keep up an "Us. Vs. them" attitude so they won't ever be interested in understanding and getting along with SJ's.

You'll find that the people who do want to understand SJs will come to the SJ section and ask genuine questions themselves and won't do any S or SJ bashing. They know it's stupid.

Oh I'm sorry, yeah, it's all an act, I'll just start being ISTJ now

An open minded SJ would get why the SJ bashing on this forum is warranted, looking at the general population

Regardless of how "nice" or whatever an SJ is I've never got along with one fully and comfortably... and not from a lack of trying

Also the whole "understanding SJs" is kind of amusing to me, there's so many of you guys out there, what's not to understand?

The reason for the "bias" as you will is because we have quite enough SJness going on out there, lets try and understand some of the indeed rarer personality types (and not by choice to be rare as you make out)

I'm yet to be surprised by something an SJ has said on the forum and why should I be? I hear it every single day by the countless SJs surrounding me

 

[raz]

Oh I'm sorry, yeah, it's all an act, I'll just start being ISTJ now

An open minded SJ would get why the SJ bashing on this forum is warranted, looking at the general population

Regardless of how "nice" or whatever an SJ is I've never got along with one fully and comfortably... and not from a lack of trying

Also the whole "understanding SJs" is kind of amusing to me, there's so many of you guys out there, what's not to understand?

The reason for the "bias" as you will is because we have quite enough SJness going on out there, lets try and understand some of the indeed rarer personality types (and not by choice to be rare as you make out)

I'm yet to be surprised by something an SJ has said on the forum and why should I be? I hear it every single day by the countless SJs surrounding me

We're just all part of a larger system, in a way. The SJs just maintain the order. We couldn't live without the NTs because the SJs just don't have the capacity to think in the manner of an NT. We're always going to have the conflict between the types, and it's something you just have to accept as the norm just because people are different. Black and white judgments of people because you don't approve of their thought process are pointless. We're all in this together, whether we like each other or not.

I guess you could say that's a major part of my goal in life, to seek an understanding of the systems that allow for order within our universe.

 

[IZthe411]

Oh I'm sorry, yeah, it's all an act, I'll just start being ISTJ now

An open minded SJ would get why the SJ bashing on this forum is warranted, looking at the general population

Regardless of how "nice" or whatever an SJ is I've never got along with one fully and comfortably... and not from a lack of trying

Also the whole "understanding SJs" is kind of amusing to me, there's so many of you guys out there, what's not to understand?

The reason for the "bias" as you will is because we have quite enough SJness going on out there, lets try and understand some of the indeed rarer personality types (and not by choice to be rare as you make out)

I'm yet to be surprised by something an SJ has said on the forum and why should I be? I hear it every single day by the countless SJs surrounding me

Well since you have us all figured out, there's no need for you to participate in this forum. :hi:

 

[IZthe411]

What was adolescence like for you? Did you have a rebellious period, and what was it like?

I have been thinking about this lately- I'm one of 11 ,and I'm considered the good son, and my mom's favorite. It's probably because I had the least amount of drama as a teenager. I had my dirt, but I wasn't crazy about it. I could operate within my parent's rules; those I did break I usually did without too much fanfare. NEVER did I get in trouble for breaking a curfew; I broke it, but I never got caught.

How important was it to you to do well at school (or further studies)?

I was in all those honors classes (except the sciences); but the older I get the less compelled I felt to get the best grades. I was accepted into college by early senior year, had some nice scholarships lined up, and an internship as well. I did my work; so it was no need to place higher in my class. I wasn't going to be number 1 or 2; nobody cares if you were number 36 or 63, unless your graduating class was 63 LOL.

In college I started having a little too much fun, and didn't apply myself, until my junior year. That was my best year. Once I was a senior, and had a job lined up, I started to wane again.

School is okay, but IMO there was no overly compelling reason to get As, because in the grand scheme of things, they are pointless. I understood the subject matter, did well where it counted, but the 'little things' like being in class and being on time were immaterial to me. I hated classes where the teacher docked you for lateness of absenteeism.

What is your opinion of people with qualifications such as Doctorate or Masters degrees? Do they automatically gain your respect?

No. There are a bunch of IDIOTS walking around with alphabets after their name. They may get my attention initially, but only after they prove they know their stuff do they get my respect. Technology makes it too easy to excel in most academics.

I have a masters, and while it does gain me additional consideration sometimes, it's a combination of experience and professional credentials that I put stock in. Again, anybody can pass a test; that's all book knowledge. Do you know how to apply it? That's my question.

Have you ever lost your temper and exploded emotionally (raising your voice, screaming, crying)? What brought it on?

Dealing with my girlfriend, yes. I couldn't believe it; because I've never had that happen to me in the past. It was more frustration than anger; she wasn't who I thought she was, and I felt obliged to keep seeing her because in my mind we were going to get married. It wasn't working like I thought and that pissed me off. Breaking up with her and seeing that it's not the end of the world has helped a whole lot.

 

[IZthe411]

This is a good thread! I can easily see it going on for over 50 pages...

My question is: how long do you have to know someone before you feel that you know them? Would it take a year, minimum? Is it even time-based?

Yes and No- there's no exact time limit; but it's not an overnight thing. I feel that experience is the best way to get to know someone; but the experience necessary differs from person to person.

I know that it takes a lot for me to trust someone. There's a lot of me that I'll share with people that I know well and feel comfortable with, but there are some aspects that are off limits with the exception of a few people. That's only earned by demonstrating that I can implicitly trust you, and in actions moreso than words.

 

[IZthe411]

There seems to be alot of "if I don't like a rule, I have to think about it a while and figure out what to do" which implies that there is some loyalty to structure and norms, even if you don't agree with that structure.


Whats the hesitation?



What would a minority SJ rebellion look like against a non-SJ majority?

As you menationed mentioned, we respect loyalty and structure, and don't want to go knocking it down in the name of rebellion, because you're left with a mess. Personally I feel that the unknown is tough to deal with for ISTJs, so unless we have a good idea of what's going to happen once we push that implode button, we'll work with the system.


SJ rebellion? Not filing your taxes on time.

 

[IZthe411]

Is it true that ISTJs eat a bar of steel before they go to bed ?

Steel cut oats?

One idea here: can I hit that hot accountant in my office then with a steel bar over the head to drag her into my cave; and if later she should sue me for it, I can tell the court that she must have hit herself trieing to eat her daily steel bar, cause an innocent entp would not even posses that ?

Nah, that won't work....She's hot but she knows her sh...eel.

 

[garbage]

Oh I'm sorry, yeah, it's all an act, I'll just start being ISTJ now

An open minded SJ would get why the SJ bashing on this forum is warranted, looking at the general population

Regardless of how "nice" or whatever an SJ is I've never got along with one fully and comfortably... and not from a lack of trying

Also the whole "understanding SJs" is kind of amusing to me, there's so many of you guys out there, what's not to understand?

The reason for the "bias" as you will is because we have quite enough SJness going on out there, lets try and understand some of the indeed rarer personality types (and not by choice to be rare as you make out)

I'm yet to be surprised by something an SJ has said on the forum and why should I be? I hear it every single day by the countless SJs surrounding me

The act is the victim mentality, not the type itself or its rarity.

The fact that there's an abundance of something doesn't mean that it's necessarily understood.

The entire point of Gifts Differing is that each type's approach has its own value. If you don't understand where or what that value is, then you don't understand the system, and you don't understand individuals within the context of the typology framework.

And the rarer types tend to lead and dominate discussions on this forum anyway, so there's a lot of "Nxness" going on here. So, by your own logic, we should be trying to understand the sensing mindset.

 

[avolkiteshvara]

As you menationed mentioned, we respect loyalty and structure, and don't want to go knocking it down in the name of rebellion, because you're left with a mess. Personally I feel that the unknown is tough to deal with for ISTJs, so unless we have a good idea of what's going to happen once we push that implode button, we'll work with the system.


SJ rebellion? Not filing your taxes on time.

Would you say SJ fear the unknown or unfamiliar?

 

[sticker]

What was adolescence like for you? Did you have a rebellious period, and what was it like?
Almost exactly like Same Spade and Habba a few years ago, partially because I was placed in girls' schools for 10 years. I could not click with most of the girls on there as it seemed as if their lives were revolving around cliques, studying, cliques, fashion, cliques, idols, cliques and scoring well in exams. I do not know how much of a stereotype of Thinking girls not fitting in is, but I sure as hell don't. I tried really hard to find similar interests, and only found one, which was anime and manga, and only under 5 people from my class liked them. Even so, the genres and titles the few classmates watch/read were different from mine. Well, I guess that seemed pretty rebellious from my classmates' pov, but I didn't do it on purpose. :rolli: But yes, I was very, very lonely. I remembered days when I did cry at night when no one's looking just because the world just felt cold and empty, and overall just being perpetually pessimistic on my outlook of life. (I still do actually, lol, but it isn't as terrible as it used to)
When I got into polytechnic under a course dealing with game design however, things changed quite a lot. There were a lot more people with much more similar interests and I was happier than I was in secondary school.
Right now though, I think what I really need is a female friend I can relate to and talk to about almost anything. I'm not being a sexist here or anything, it's just like how guys need guy buddies which they can talk to about guy troubles that girls 'can never understand'. It just struck me that I never really have one of those female confidants (other than my ENFx sister and I love her but she's now busy with her boyfriend to care much about me, mum too but there's always this generation gap and she just can't seem to empathize, but still, love her) or even a best friend. Most of my close friends are kinda taken up by some other friend already, heh. I have a couple of guy friends who are like confidants, but I never really felt safe telling them too much and sometimes I still do think that they don't really understand. (Yes, I know it's mean to think that way, and I really do appreciate them for taking the time to listen to me talk about my troubles.) Oh, and all these are always done on msn because I never seem to be able to get my thoughts out as clearly as I want when talking as compared to typing.
Currently I'm 18 and nearing the end of adolescence, we'll just have to see what happens next.

How important was it to you to do well at school (or further studies)?
Not very important unless I can see how I can apply what I learn to my life and/or future jobs.

What is your opinion of people with qualifications such as Doctorate or Masters degrees? Do they automatically gain your respect?
Depends. They do not automatically gain my respect, but I'll take their opinions in their areas of expertise with more weight.

Have you ever lost your temper and exploded emotionally (raising your voice, screaming, crying)? What brought it on?
I think I'm a rather immature ISTJ and I lose my temper very easily. It's usually when my peace and quiet is disrupted, most of the time by my brother or classmates and I do not have the choice to leave the area. Might be because of a highly developed Fi. I can get agitated easily when things don't go according to plan and I think I'll be the first to freak out when faced with some sudden situation like someone passing out right in front of me or something. You might even say, if stoic = ISTJ, then I'm not an ISTJ at all.

Well since you have us all figured out, there's no need for you to participate in this forum. :hi:

Would you say SJ fear the unknown or unfamiliar?

For me, yes. Copy pasting my views about luck from my blog, since it pretty much deals with unpredictable events.

I have a very strong dislike for anything luck based, random or happens by chance. So much that I try as much as possible to eliminate that portion even if sometimes the time it takes to do that might not be worth it.
An example: I was playing a game called Monster Hunter. You can hire cats that cook for you. Cats with useful abilities and aptitude for certain food are rare and randomly generated. I was so irritated with that aspect of the game that I took the time to look up how to install a plugin which hacks psp games, then used codes to customize my own cats. My line of reasoning was, if the game was testing my luck with the game’s RNG and not on my skills, I think I’ll learn more from learning how to hack than mindlessly waiting for lady luck to favor me.
Even in real life, when something bad happens and it’s nobody’s fault but just pure coincidence that two incidents (or a few incidents) collided with each other and produced an undesired outcome, I find it hard to accept it even though the ‘reason’ itself is ‘coincidence’ and nothing else. Somehow, there just must be a better reason.

 

[IZthe411]

Would you say SJ fear the unknown or unfamiliar?

I don't know if I fear it in the true sense of the word.....It's just not my strongsuit. I think this is where our weak intuition plays the most tricks on us. I tend to project the worst of scenerios, even if the outcome is very extreme or unlikely.

I'd say I'm more likely to tread lightly, very carefully, and very calculated, for the best outcome. ISTJs normally aren't the type to try just for the experience....a lot of times we are invested in something for the outcome, somehow it enriches our lives or offers some kind of fulfillment.

*I will say that as I've gotten older I'm less prone to act this way, especially on the smaller things. But when it comes to a major decision, let's say buying a car or long term relationships, this attitude still comes into play. Otherwise I'm more comfortable with letting go and just letting things happen as they may.

 

[avolkiteshvara]

Things I've kind of learned:


-So SJs would rather have shitty structure rather than free chaos.
-I am surprised to see so many SJs not fitting in at school with friends. I always thought SJs were completely socially comfortable.


Do you guys go crazy if you go over to INTPc? You should give it a shot. Face your demons SJs.

 

[IZthe411]

Things I've kind of learned:


-So SJs would rather have shitty structure rather than free chaos.
-I am surprised to see so many SJs not fitting in at school with friends. I always thought SJs were completely socially comfortable.


Do you guys go crazy if you go over to INTPc? You should give it a shot. Face your demons SJs.

Why do you say so about structure? Me wub it!

Seriously, Structure is necessary in the more important things in life but on a message board, not really.


I have the ability to fit in with just about any group, but be more of a fringe member, not somebody in the middle of it all. For me, I have a different amount of comfort, but I can hold my own.

Is it worth it to visit that INTPc seriously, or will they tar and feather me for me being 'different'? :steam: