ISTJs considered 'nice guys' while INTJs are considered cold-hearted evil beings.

[Space_Oddity]

I definitely could not apply this stereotype to real life. It sounds more like a "this-stereotype-sounds-fun-so-I'll-laught-and-say-it's-right" thing than anything real to me

I would say that IRL, the line between STJs and NTJs is often pretty vague and lots of STJs end up mistyped as NTJs only because they're clever and show tertiary Fi. Personally it took me the longest time to get the hang of the NTJ-STJ difference, so I suppose a lot of people on this board might have the same problem and not even know. Therefore (based on the archetypal use of INTJs in fiction, for example) they might type every cynical, sharp, rational person with hidden kindness as an INTJ, while they're in fact ISTJs, and they might not recognize the Ni in their nice "boy-next-door" friend and label him as an ISTJ. I know I've done both.

Personally, female INTJs are one of my favourite types of people. My mum and one of my closest friends are INTJs - they're not the kind of person who everyone likes, but after you get close to them you discover a hidden treasure. Not only they have loads of healthy common sense (so needed for this INFP) paired with great sense of humor and insight, but they're also really good-hearted and sensitive (although they're good at hiding it ). I don't have much experience with male INTJs but they sure make an effort at understanding me, which is very appreciated. ISTJs make good girl-friends as well; our friendships are very steady and light-hearted, but as opposed to INTJs I feel I have a slightly "mentor" role there (while INTJs maybe feel they play a mentor role with me). As for STJs males, I've been attracted to them romantically but the relationship gets very demanding after a while.

On the whole, I'll be stereotypical and say that being "mean" or being "nice" really doesn't apply to cognitive functions. Also, what one sees as mean another might enjoy, and what one sees as nice another might not appreciate.

 

[entropie]

Ahh, the elusive pink diamond relationship. I see.

If you two go on talking in secret formulas I will kill the guy I hold hostage !

 

[NewEra]

It all has to do with stereotypes, and stereotypes are fueled by ignorance. Continue to feast on the beast that is ignorance.

 

[entropie]

Found another wisdom I once received by an ISTJ, not by an INTJ:

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_bx6B3dBMM"].[/YOUTUBE]

 

[highlander]

From a female perspective, I think ISTJs are better with kids:

Ah, on the surface perhaps. But will ISTJs encourage them to reach for the stars?

 

[entropie]

Ah, on the surface perhaps. But will ISTJs encourage them to reach for the stars?

Good question.

From the little interactions I as a kid tho had with INTJs, I think they are both fail.

 

[highlander]

Good question.

From the little interactions I as a kid tho had with INTJs, I think they are both fail.

Ok, I will be more specific on potential pros and cons based on my limited experience.

ISTJ Pros: A source of stability and reasonableness, very level headed, great sense of responsibility, down to earth, hard working. Very very good people. May instill a sense of responsibility in children. Leads by example. Sets rules (maybe) My dad was an ISTJ and this was him. Great dad. I really looked up to him. He did buy me two books: The Richest Man in Babylon and How to Win Friends and Influence People which he bugged me to read and I was ultimately quite thankful for. He also paid for only half of my college, so I learned to work and be fiscally responsible at a young age.

ISTJ Cons: Will not be particularly encouraging or demonstrative. I don't ever think he complimented me on anything I did in my life until I was over 30 and even then it was indirect. The criticalness that does exist will probably be understated and too subtle for some children (like INTJ in this case). If there are problems that come up, they may not be acknowledged or addressed. At the end, you may be a little insulted at least or think they didn't ever truly believe in you and you learn to accept it and move on (I did - never understood how people are trying for years afterwards to do things to get their parent's approval). It doesn't really bother me now but did for some time.

INTJ Pros: Also hard working. Will raise the child with the goal of being independent; e.g., silly example - when teaching them how to swim, they will allow them to try on their own longer than most types, always keeping a watchful eye. After all, the goal is for the child to learn how to swim. Will be focused on developing the children. May be more alert to the uniqueness in each child and their natural abilities, enthusiastically encouraging them to grow and develop in those areas of talent, get them in just the right school, situations to prosper, etc. while accepting of things they are not so good and them being the person who they are (unless the problem will ultimately harm the child, in which they will assertively work to get a solution)

INTJ Cons: Will be overly direct at times, more critical and demanding, children will receive subtle messages they can do better on things at times (which can be good or bad depending on how you look at it).

I'd also say, certain types of children may mesh better with a certain kind of parent. An ISFJ parent may view an INFP daughter as: spacey, not listening, not focused enough on her homework, needs to be more in touch with the real world, and be be subtly critical. They will do a lot for the child, which actually creates a dependency as well rather than encouraging them to take ownership and responsibility for themselves. They don't appreciate the art or music, art, or writing so much and may attempt to steer them to more practical occupations or things.

 

[entropie]

That's good, that's the first informative post I heard from INTJs about INTJs for aeons.

I didnt really meant that INTJs are bad parents that was just trolling; to be honest with you I dont know not a single INTJ in real life and I dont know Jack about them.

The spare llama drama answers you get from them on the forum aint really helping, but to be fair I really never were intrested in them.

I think you'ld do fine as Dad, especially when you'ld explain the concept "per aspera ad astra" to your kids

 

[Kalach]

I'm trying to care about this topic. The real answer is when you look into an INTJ's eyes you can sometimes see that anything is possible. Really, anything. Deep down the only real constraint is opportunity and conscience. But what I'm mostly hoping is HAL 9000 was not ISFJ, because that'd ruin the instructional question:

HAL 9000

ISTJ or INTJ?


I say clear cut ISTJ. Others say different.

 

[Tamske]

Why so? What has the change from Si - Ni got to do with being a nice guy or a cold-hearted being of unsightly prejudice. Quite an over exaggeration and it's also quite sad when some people wholeheartedly take it as truth.

Because it seems possible to understand and predict an ISTJ and not an INTJ?
I don't know.
If Ni is the problem - is there a similar prejustice towards INFJs in comparison with ISFJs? Or does the Fe part make everything all right?

I can see where the prejustice comes from. INTJs are the staple (fantasy, maybe more general) villains... I think they do make great villains, especially of the love-despising, plotting kind. There are a lot of INTJ evil being examples around.

Even then, I'm convinced every type can be good or evil in his/her own way. That's why I'm still searching for examples (preferably in literature) to offset the "first impression" I've got.

Matilda from Roald Dahl is a nice INTJ
Hal 9000 - I don't dare to type him.

 

[Kristiana]

INTJ Pros: Also hard working. Will raise the child with the goal of being independent; e.g., silly example - when teaching them how to swim, they will allow them to try on their own longer than most types, always keeping a watchful eye. After all, the goal is for the child to learn how to swim. Will be focused on developing the children. May be more alert to the uniqueness in each child and their natural abilities, enthusiastically encouraging them to grow and develop in those areas of talent, get them in just the right school, situations to prosper, etc. while accepting of things they are not so good and them being the person who they are (unless the problem will ultimately harm the child, in which they will assertively work to get a solution)

INTJ Cons: Will be overly direct at times, more critical and demanding, children will receive subtle messages they can do better on things at times (which can be good or bad depending on how you look at it).

I'd also say, certain types of children may mesh better with a certain kind of parent. An ISFJ parent may view an INFP daughter as: spacey, not listening, not focused enough on her homework, needs to be more in touch with the real world, and be be subtly critical. They will do a lot for the child, which actually creates a dependency as well rather than encouraging them to take ownership and responsibility for themselves. They don't appreciate the art or music, art, or writing so much and may attempt to steer them to more practical occupations or things.

Hmm, interesting I would say the INTJ pros list fits me quite well. The INTJ cons list, however does not describe me. Perhaps it is because I have been on the receiving end of female gender role socialization, or perhaps it is because I do not have an extremely high T preference (if I had to quantify, I'd say maybe 65%), but I tend to struggle with being "strict" with children. Unless a rule is very important for the sake of the child's safety, moral development, or well-being, I prefer to be more laid-back and more lenient.

This is only based on my experiences at work (at a psychiatric hospital for kids and adolescents, and at a residential facility for mentally ill adolescents), though. I do not know how I would interact with "normal" children who are not mentally ill, if I had to work with them for long hours.

 

[Mia.]

Psst. Guys, (whispers) hearts and wubbies are frightening to ixtj's. They understand only terms. If you stray from the language they will know we are foreigners and block us from their thread as an instinctive protective mechanism.

So I can't say that INTJs are irresistible packages of secretly soft, squishy yumminess that I just want to hug into oblivion?

 

[King sns]

So I can't say that INTJs are irresistible packages of secretly soft, squishy yumminess that I just want to hug into oblivion?

Only if you can make the connection undeniable complete with systems, graphs, and solid statistics.
Ni(Te+Fi)/Se= Se/29^3- 12.99992. Cancel out the Se. Solve for Ni, (this is the tricky part, since the components and theory behind Ni are extremely complex.) And after a series of extremely complicated logic, all you get is the "secretly squishy" part of the answer. No one on earth has been able to complete the formula to fit your hypothesis and Ne people often make these massive inaccurate jumps in logic which aren't proven which scares the INTJ. Also,if you observe the INTJ the nature of the INTJ changes, which means they can only be figured out using pure physics and mathematical formulas. which further complicates the situation. Good luck in your endeavor.

 

[Mia.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDOhFIX3sWE

 

[The Ü™]

I've never heard of ISTJs being "nice," they're cooperative, which isn't necessarily "nice." And need I remind everyone that being nice could have pragmatic benefits as well, just like being an asshole does.

I think what we're seeing when we think of "nice guys," however, are male ISFJs. That is, of course, a generalization.

 

[jixmixfix]

ISTJs are dicks even the ISTJ friends I have are dicks. I call them dicks and they agree.

 

[Coriolis]

So I can't say that INTJs are irresistible packages of secretly soft, squishy yumminess that I just want to hug into oblivion?

Of course you can. You have a right to be wrong.

 

[Oaky]

 

[Mia.]

Of course you can. You have a right to be wrong.

ISTJs are nice in the way that storm troopers are nice.

INTJs are nice in the way Emperor Palpatine is nice. (They're still my squishies. I shall call them Squishy and they shall be mine and they shall be my Squishies.)

 

[Skip Foreplay]

I for one do not see INTJ's as cold-hearted, evil beings! Though naturally, some of them are.

And ISTJ's I don't see so much as 'nice' as 'particularly uninspiring.'