[ISTJ] ISTJ the confusion:the push/pull

[moonbaby]

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/sj-guardhouse/9428-understanding-male-istj-minds-21.html#post424644 <------- from this post

Okay....so, if you would be so kind to oblige and add to this post (infjs and fellow posters).....

It seems a common theme to be totally confused by the ISTJ in your life that you are working to emotionally attach/bond with........that their words and actions do not match.

Please give us examples.........and if the ISTJ's on the board would be so kind please HELP us out here, as it seems you are giving us mixed signals.
(do they even realize they are doing that?)

 

[d@v3]

<I just posted a thing about loyalty on the other board- not sure if that will help answer your question>

Anyway, it is generally very hard for us ISTJ's to communicate in public or in front of others, so if you are trying to communicate with an ISTJ get a place where you are one on one or do it over text messages or something? Eventually as you gain the ISTJ's trust and friendship and more imporantly- LOYALTY you will find much less communication problems!

Therefore, don't expect to hear about your ISTJ's thoughts and emotions until you have met the above qualifications. Depending on who they are it may take a very long time for them to open up to you, so when they do, consider yourself VERY lucky!(I feel like I am rambling now )

Bottom line, we don't mean to give mixed signals. But if we choose the easy route, and just put things blatantly, we could risk hurting someone and that ruins the fun for everyone!

 

[Cimarron]

Bottom line, we don't mean to give mixed signals. But if we choose the easy route, and just put things blatantly, we could risk hurting someone and that ruins the fun for everyone!

Yeah, well said. I like to be straightforward and honest with everybody, but especially with people I care about. The only reasons I might do one thing and say another is that it's too embarrassing to tell you the truth in public (so get into a private setting), or not hurting feelings--especially when communicating with Fs, I think, as opposed to Ts. Fs in my life have taught me to be more careful of this than I would be naturally, probably. **What's interesting about this is it means if it has happened to you, we probably worried about hurting your feelings, which means we do care about you. See that?

But even if I have to change the message slightly to avoid hurt emotions, the truth will almost surely still be there, it's just the way I say it that will be lighter.

 

[PinkIceTD]

Yeah, well said. I like to be straightforward and honest with everybody, but especially with people I care about. The only reasons I might do one thing and say another is that it's too embarrassing to tell you the truth in public (so get into a private setting), or not hurting feelings--especially when communicating with Fs, I think, as opposed to Ts. Fs in my life have taught me to be more careful of this than I would be naturally, probably. **What's interesting about this is it means if it has happened to you, we probably worried about hurting your feelings, which means we do care about you. See that?

But even if I have to change the message slightly to avoid hurt emotions, the truth will almost surely still be there, it's just the way I say it that will be lighter.

So, are you saying that typically, mixed messages are your way of saying that you care because you are trying not to hurt any feelings? In addition to not embarrassing yourself, of course...

 

[Spectre of the spam]

I say things about myself that often aren't true, and put me in a bad light. I don't want to, but I end up doing it anyway. Or, i'm totally honest about myself, which isn't much better. I guess what i'm trying to say is that my words don't equal my actions half the time. I have absolutely no clue why I do it. I THINK it may because I want to see how people react.

 

[PinkIceTD]

I say things about myself that often aren't true, and put me in a bad light. I don't want to, but I end up doing it anyway. Or, i'm totally honest about myself, which isn't much better. I guess what i'm trying to say is that my words don't equal my actions half the time.

Why do you do that? especially the bolded part?

Which is better to trust with you guys? because with me, If I tell you I am going to do something, I will. You should trust my words. So this is why I am confused about it. With people that I care about, i tell them the open and full truth so I naturally seek the same.

 

[Spectre of the spam]

Why do you do that? especially the bolded part?

Which is better to trust with you guys? because with me, If I tell you I am going to do something, I will. You should trust my words. So this is why I am confused about it. With people that I care about, i tell them the open and full truth so I naturally seek the same.

If someone asks me a personal question, I usually don't have an answer. I have to scramble for one. This results in an untrue and rushed statement. Given enough time, I could come up with a good and true answer. Unfortunately, nce I think of one, the damage is done. I couldn't retract what I said without looking like a liar.

To the second part, when someone tells me they will do something, I automatically disbelieve them. People lie or forget about things they promise to do all the time. My internal motto for this is "If someone wants to get something done, remind them, because they won't start by themselves."

 

[Cimarron]

So, are you saying that typically, mixed messages are your way of saying that you care because you are trying not to hurt any feelings? In addition to not embarrassing yourself, of course...

Mixed messages? Probably. I don't even like doing it, because I know it's not being entirely honest, and because it may confuse the person I'm telling. But if it's better than the alternative, I may grudgingly do it.

Either that, or not being aware of something. I suppose that could happen, too.

 

[raz]

A lot of times when I'm talking to someone, even if I'm really close to the person, I still won't say exactly what I want to say. I won't even know exactly what I want to say. I usually just resort to a lot of sarcasm to fill dead air. Really, I'm just better off listening to someone talk and talk.

 

[d@v3]

I also like to be straightforward with everyone, but, I can't stand making people feel bad! It feels like I have failed them. But I don't mind being blunt with my family or people I am close to, I guess because they understand my personality- but I would NEVER share any emotions or "feelings" with them. (I probably would with my best friend though)

Indeed, if your ISTJ has sent you "mixed messages" that DOES probably mean there were mutual feelings involved. Therefore, it may be a win-win situation for you! The timing may not be right though, perhaps he is working on something time consuming?- I know I like to take things on in an organized fashion (one at a time)- obviously if that were the case it would be a perfect world! (And no, it's not a perfect world- trust me I just got back from Africa and it was very sad)

Sarcasm is something I picked up from my sister (and all the Chris Farley movies)

I agree with Spectre, people generally DO NOT do what they say they will do, therefore, we assume they won't do it, just to avoid another dissapointment!

You should ask yourself- have you REALLY been honest (and obvious) with your intentions when communicating with your ISTJ?

 

[Hunter]

I know that I am very straightforward and blunt with someone when asked to be. If an opinion isn't requested, I rarely give it.

In general, I'm very sarcastic, have a hard time complimenting people, joke around alot... The people I get along with best are the ones that understand sarcasm..and will bounce sarcasm back at me. Cause then we get into a lovely, meaningless word battle that is downright hilarious.

I pretty much treat people really close to me the same way...although I do have a tendency to offer opinions more often around people I'm used to being around. But I rarely share my 'feelings' with anyone. It's awkward and uncomfortable so I avoid it like the plague.

 

[moonbaby]

I am always honest....there is no reason to pussy-foot. It wastes time and is exhuasting.

Okay...let me give you an example:

ISTJ states his intentions for another (reconciled with ex). He wants to remain friends ONLY.
HOWEVER he is making comments that ellude that he still has deep feelings. Perhaps the comments are not direct, though in a round about manner....

That is the WORDS and ACTIONS not matching we are speaking to.

 

[PinkIceTD]

I agree with moonbaby, there is no reason not to be honest. If I ever hold anything back with my ISTJ, it's because I don't want to freak him out, because I feel very strongly for him. In order for me to be COMPLETELY bare with my feelings (I have no problem doing that with him), I need encouragement. Which means I need him to seem interested. Sometimes, I'll be talking about stuff like that and he's super quiet, or he's non-chalant like "that's cool" , or he makes some kind of joke in which he makes fun of what i just said.

Taking in what you guys have already said, I understand that he might not even know what to say. But still, it makes me feel like he doesn't care.

I guess I could tell him that, but how would that change things?

 

[d@v3]

If you told him he was quiet and that it seemed like he didnt care, it MIGHT help to make his intentions a little more obvious. But, more often than not, he is either quiet because he DOES care and isn't done processing what you just said, or he just isn't interested. Unfortunately, there is not way of telling which it is- I don't think. But, if he is quiet, nervous, smiling, changing the subject, things like that, he is probably interested- just not ready to talk about it just yet. Like I said, we can't just be blatant about things because what if he thought he wanted you and then you said no? It's all about risks and logic- ISTJ's are apparently notrious for hating to take risks (myself included) AND if they have been rejected before in the same situation, it doesn't help.

HOWEVER, if you back us into a corner- we will take the risk and we won't speak from the heart it will be something we made up on the fly- for instance, if we really do have feelings for you, we might be sweating and trying to figure out what to say and say make something up. That is why it is important like I said before, to be one on one NOT in a public place. For me, the ideal place would be while the two of us were riding in the car and only bring up the subject ONE time and give your ISTJ some time to think about it.
Actually- I had that experience the other day (although something possessed me to voluntarily put myself in that position), and I explained in another post how much of a disaster it was for me!

I hope that helps answer the question?

 

[swordpath]

I've been guilty of the push/pull . I believe most commonly it happens because for what we say and communicate, we want it to be secure or comfortable for us and not to possibly turn things into what could become a volatile situation or would open us up too much. So within a relationship, we might distance ourselves with our words and try to draw lines in order to preserve ourself and make things "safe". Then in our actions, the feelings and desires that may not be absolutely concrete can get the best of us. I use the term concrete because if/when things become concrete I think we don't have much of a problem making commitments and backing our words up with our actions.

I'm not sure if that made sense or even applies to most.

 

[Rachelinpa]

I agree with moonbaby, there is no reason not to be honest. If I ever hold anything back with my ISTJ, it's because I don't want to freak him out, because I feel very strongly for him. In order for me to be COMPLETELY bare with my feelings (I have no problem doing that with him), I need encouragement. Which means I need him to seem interested. Sometimes, I'll be talking about stuff like that and he's super quiet, or he's non-chalant like "that's cool" , or he makes some kind of joke in which he makes fun of what i just said.

Taking in what you guys have already said, I understand that he might not even know what to say. But still, it makes me feel like he doesn't care.

I guess I could tell him that, but how would that change things?

Haaaa. Yeah, I get "that's cool" from my ISTJ a lot too. But, I think it's cause I talk a lot. I mean, if it's important, he will listen, but mostly I think he thinks I'm just filling dead space (which is sometimes true). If I say, "Listen to me RIGHT NOW!" in a light manner, he usually laughs and says, "What? Oh, ok, I'm listening."

Yeah, I think mostly he just doesn't know what to say. It's a challenge to come up with new language to state what I mean in a way he will understand. Often, I just assume he will not completely understand, but I am under the umbrella of knowing his loyal appreciation for me... so I need less assurance each time... if that makes sense.

 

[Rachelinpa]

Oh, additionally, it's good to keep in mind that ENFP can be a little overwhelming at times... and I get the sense the ISTJ can only take one "bare with our feelings" bout at a time. I can hardly blame them. But that said, I think this could be the lack of interest you pick up on from time-to-time. Lots to process for the ISTJ.

 

[d@v3]

Actually, we usually understand- we just don't know how to respond. BECAUSE if we respond with words from our heart, like what we REALLY are feeling, it exposes us and it may or may not be what you want to hear. Therefore, it is a risk- if you don't want to hear what we say, you may think less of us...does that make sense?

 

[moonbaby]

That risk applies to both parties. If you are waiting for a guarantee, it is impossible to give. Therefore, you miss out on opportunities because only one party is willing to expose themselves. Do you know what I mean? Then, the odd thing is...you give istj your feelings and they either withdraw or dont react, both of which feel negative.


Does this make sense?

It is a gamble. That means putting somerthing at risk for the hope of gaining.

 

[moonbaby]

Beat...yes! That is the core of it I believe!

So, you are saying you minimize verbally what you actually feel for fear of overexposing yourself?