Is this sexism of some kind ?

[Virtual ghost]

OP, which type is more attractive to you? The conservative or the liberal woman? I think this is where you should start.

Conservative women tend to be dress better and take better care of themselves and more stable and dependable but respond poorly to soft men. They are the kind that wants kids and marriage and a depenable partner. The classic woman model that I appreciate.

Liberal women tend to look less attractive and stable and have less interest in marriage and kids and tend to dress more flashy and with less taste (IMHO).

For me conservative women >>> liberal women for many reasons that can't be talked about here because it will trigger too many. I recommend studying the two and see which one is more to your taste. It offers a lot of exporable ground. Good start?

Liberal for sure, since I am not consevative at all. I don't like too much randomness and self-destruction but all my core worldviews are clearly to the liberal/progressive side. For now I just want to be with someone, getting married is not my priority. The thing is that I don't get along with conservative women, I tried but with them I just have "one large extra problem". Therefore this isn't an issue for me since my choice is obvious. After all liberal woman will surely be easier to accept someone who is so much out of the box as I am.


(but I am from enviroment where liberal/conservative divide isn't too visible, since there isn't many extremes on both side of the spectrum)

 

[Betty Blue]

OP, which type is more attractive to you? The conservative or the liberal woman? I think this is where you should start.

Conservative women tend to be dress better and take better care of themselves and more stable and dependable but respond poorly to soft men. They are the kind that wants kids and marriage and a depenable partner. The classic woman model that I appreciate.

Liberal women tend to look less attractive and stable and have less interest in marriage and kids and tend to dress more flashy and with less taste (IMHO).

For me conservative women >>> liberal women for many reasons that can't be talked about here because it will trigger too many. I recommend studying the two and see which one is more to your taste. It offers a lot of exporable ground. Good start?

Lol I don't think conservatives are especially known for their empathy.

 

[Betty Blue]

Liberal for sure, since I am not consevative at all. I don't like too much randomness and self-destruction but all my core worldviews are clearly to the liberal/progressive side. For now I just want to be with someone, getting married is not my priority. The thing is that I don't get along with conservative women, I tried but with them I just have "one large extra problem". Therefore this isn't an issue for me since my choice is obvious. After all liberal woman will surely be easier to accept someone who is so much out of the box as I am.


(but I am from enviroment where liberal/conservative divide isn't too visible, since there isn't many extremes on both side of the spectrum)

I agree and I think a point to remember here is that you are identifying yourself (finally) as not being the biggest picture of health... at least the standardised version. Liberal women in general will likely be much more accepting and empathetic but you must realise that everyone has problems. There is still this attitude that a man has to hide his emotions which imo is incredibly unhealthy and suicide statistics would back this up. Imho men are people and people should be able to express themselves with people they love and trust at the very least.

Many politicians/actors/scientists et al have diagnosis of mental health issues many men as well as women. You yourself may well have. You have clearly been quite scarred from some interaction with women which have skewed your opinions to put men on some kind of pedestal. It happens to both men and women ... often referred to as 'daddy' or 'mommy' issues. Usually indicating some stage in childhood where they were emotionally hurt by a particular parent. I'm guessing that your mother played a large role in that for you with the information you have shared.

All relationships carry a risk, no-one is infallible. Everything will be ok in the larger picture. You just have had a really difficult start with relationships with women that's the crux of it. It does not mean you can't be in a stable and loving relationship, it just means you may have to work super hard at it. But it takes two and you will also have to put work in. When you are ready to start working you will be ready to get involved with someone.

Also because maybe you really do need it...

 

[Betty Blue]

Edit: I thought you were bullshitting until I looked it up.

Hot or Not: Why Conservative Women Are 'Prettier' Than Liberal Ladies

Why Conservative Women Are So Pretty

The GOP has a feminine face, UCLA study finds | UCLA

Scott Adams on the Attractiveness of Trump Supporters

Mind. Blown. Another piece of the puzzle for my Ti.

This is hilarious, you do realise that they are saying 'stereotypical feminine' right? they are using things like hair length and make-up as factors... these are more to do with gender roles than 'prettiness'. I would like to post pics of trump rally women versus others but I feel I am derailing enough.

 

[S16M4]

This is hilarious, you do realise that they are saying 'stereotypical feminine' right? they are using things like hair length and make-up as factors... these are more to do with gender roles than 'prettiness'. I would like to post pics of trump rally women versus others but I feel I am derailing enough.

Are you unattractive?

 

[Betty Blue]

Are you unattractive?

LO, wtf kind of question is that? drawing my personal appearance and your judgement of it into question?

 

[Bush]

How the hell does absolutely every discussion on the forums turn into one about liberalism/conservatism? I know that lots of people have pet agendas that they inject into every thread, but that seems to be a really common one nowadays.


eta: I mean,

(but I am from enviroment where liberal/conservative divide isn't too visible, since there isn't many extremes on both side of the spectrum)

This should be the end of the discussion on that matter.

eta again: not saying this from a mod perspective

 

[S16M4]

LO, wtf kind of question is that? drawing my personal appearance and your judgement of it into question?

I find that only one in four stereotypically feminine ladies vie for its destruction. That would be directly disadvantageous for them.

Unfeminine ladies seem to have more invested in the "gender role" stuff.

Of course, this is out in the wild. I tend to think people interested in Typology to be outliers in the first place.

I'm going to aim to disprove locally those articles I posted.

 

[ceecee]

How the hell does absolutely every discussion on the forums turn into one about liberalism/conservatism? I know that lots of people have pet agendas that they inject into every thread, but that seems to be a really common one nowadays.


eta: I mean,
This should be the end of the discussion on that matter.

eta again: not saying this from a mod perspective

Because that's the only game they have to play. Like - I'm taking my ball and going home and you must be unattractive or you must be a liberal because I'm a man and you should let me do and say what I like. I CREATED CIVILIZATION!!!! Or whatever argument is currently fashionable.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I agree and I think a point to remember here is that you are identifying yourself (finally) as not being the biggest picture of health... at least the standardised version. Liberal women in general will likely be much more accepting and empathetic but you must realise that everyone has problems. There is still this attitude that a man has to hide his emotions which imo is incredibly unhealthy and suicide statistics would back this up. Imho men are people and people should be able to express themselves with people they love and trust at the very least.

Many politicians/actors/scientists et al have diagnosis of mental health issues many men as well as women. You yourself may well have. You have clearly been quite scarred from some interaction with women which have skewed your opinions to put men on some kind of pedestal. It happens to both men and women ... often referred to as 'daddy' or 'mommy' issues. Usually indicating some stage in childhood where they were emotionally hurt by a particular parent. I'm guessing that your mother played a large role in that for you with the information you have shared.

All relationships carry a risk, no-one is infallible. Everything will be ok in the larger picture. You just have had a really difficult start with relationships with women that's the crux of it. It does not mean you can't be in a stable and loving relationship, it just means you may have to work super hard at it. But it takes two and you will also have to put work in. When you are ready to start working you will be ready to get involved with someone.

Also because maybe you really do need it...

I disagree with bolded if I may say that. I simply have to find compatible woman and this will work, I doubt that this will be extra hard to bound if everything is in the right place. However when a woman starts to complicate, give indirect answers or buying time over and over again I simply lose interest since such situations always ended badly for me in the end. In the case that my entire life wasn't such a mess due to the economic and political reasons this entire problem would not happen.


My only real sin/problem is that life made me very thick skinned and that gives women discomfort in general. Therefore often I am quiet just so that I don't show how blunt or analitical my thinking really is. On the other hand women like to "get to know you" and I am unsure what to do about that, since it isn't long before that conversation turns to some dark path, because of what I have been through. To me this isn't so horrible since this was my life but people usually don't like to talk about my past since it makes them uncomfortable to listen about my ideas, since I am at peace with many things people are not. Therefore I keep stuff to myself, however that way you can't really be intimate with anyone. Plus women due to their own uncertainties try to keep distance, even if I did nothing wrong or illegal. It is just that they can't be with a person that was never really loved and they don't want "responsibility" to change that.



My whole love life was one big guessing game that simply didn't manage to find right match, since the environment is full of people with issues on both sides. Plus there is/was a drastic deficit of places where you can just meet anyone openly. Also when I see what people around me go through in relationships I am just not too enthusiastic about the whole thing.



Women date much uglier, much more uneducated and poorer men but I never sensed any real enthusiasm about doing the same with me. Therefore I simply need encouragement to try again since I never got a real sign from women that I am lovable or worthy of loving. (and only women can fix this, I can only present myself)



Just saying.

 

[Betty Blue]

I disagree with bolded if I may say that. I simply have to find compatible woman and this will work, I doubt that this will be extra hard to bound if everything is in the right place. However when a woman starts to complicate, give indirect answers or buying time over and over again I simply lose interest since such situations always ended badly for me in the end. In the case that my entire life wasn't such a mess due to the economic and political reasons this entire problem would not happen.


My only real sin/problem is that life made me very thick skinned and that gives women discomfort in general. Therefore often I am quiet just so that I don't show how blunt or analitical my thinking really is. On the other hand women like to "get to know you" and I am unsure what to do about that, since it isn't long before that conversation turns to some dark path, because of what I have been through. To me this isn't so horrible since this was my life but people usually don't like to talk about my past since it makes them uncomfortable to listen about my ideas, since I am at peace with many things people are not. Therefore I keep stuff to myself, however that way you can't really be intimate with anyone. Plus women due to their own uncertainties try to keep distance, even if I did nothing wrong or illegal. It is just that they can't be with a person that was never really loved and they don't want "responsibility" to change that.



My whole love life was one big guessing game that simply didn't manage to find right match, since the environment is full of people with issues on both sides. Plus there is/was a drastic deficit of places where you can just meet anyone openly. Also when I see what people around me go through in relationships I am just not too enthusiastic about the whole thing.



Women date much uglier, much more uneducated and poorer men but I never sensed any real enthusiasm about doing the same with me. Therefore I simply need encouragement to try again since I never got a real sign from women that I am lovable or worthy of loving. (and only women can fix this, I can only present myself)



Just saying.

Ok but the thing is, it is work & it will be work, for both of you and you will need to be able to compromise too... unless you want a loveless clinical relationship thats basically just meeting when it fits in with you both and you are both in the right space.

Finding the 'right' person can be hard work too... you will never find anyone perfect... even if you think they are and idealise them... everyone has flaws. You have flaws too.

I do think that you are not unlovable though, you are kind of endearing in a way because despite the difficulty you do still want to explore what the problem is and try to resolve it. So you know you are taking steps in the right direction...

I think it's one of the pro's of this forum, where someone can explore their internalised issues in a single thread... therefor not having to dance around it in a conversation hoping it gets taken up as a topic...

 

[Virtual ghost]

Ok but the thing is, it is work & it will be work, for both of you and you will need to be able to compromise too... unless you want a loveless clinical relationship thats basically just meeting when it fits in with you both and you are both in the right space.

Finding the 'right' person can be hard work too... you will never find anyone perfect... even if you think they are and idealise them... everyone has flaws. You have flaws too.

I do think that you are not unlovable though, you are kind of endearing in a way because despite the difficulty you do still want to explore what the problem is and try to resolve it. So you know you are taking steps in the right direction...

I think it's one of the pro's of this forum, where someone can explore their internalised issues in a single thread... therefor not having to dance around it in a conversation hoping it gets taken up as a topic...

Ok, because my head says that if there will be any pleasure in this then this shouldn't be called work. The extra convinient part is that this is the place where I have never been and therefore I doubt that this will be boring or something that will be a chore of some kind, if there is any worth in our relationship.

 

[Betty Blue]

Ok, because my head says that if there will be any pleasure in this then this shouldn't be called work. The extra convinient part is that this is the place where I have never been and therefore I doubt that this will be boring or something that will be a chore of some kind, if there is any worth in our relationship.

It's rewarding work. But there is definitely work involved. By work I mean compromise, fundamentals like talking when you don't feel like it, supporting someone because they want to do something that they feel merit in which you don't see etc etc... I doubt you will find many people who think there is no work involved in relationships.

 

[ceecee]

Ok, because my head says that if there will be any pleasure in this then this shouldn't be called work. The extra convinient part is that this is the place where I have never been and therefore I doubt that this will be boring or something that will be a chore of some kind, if there is any worth in our relationship.

All relationships require some amount of, let's call it effort, instead of work. I understand what you are saying but when you're with the right person, it doesn't feel so much like "work". You want to put in the effort for your relationship to flourish. There are times when it's hard, no doubt about that but when you work as a team, you can lean on each other to get past those hard time.

 

[Virtual ghost]

It's rewarding work. But there is definitely work involved. By work I mean compromise, fundamentals like talking when you don't feel like it, supporting someone because they want to do something that they feel merit in which you don't see etc etc... I doubt you will find many people who think there is no work involved in relationships.

All relationships require some amount of, let's call it effort, instead of work. I understand what you are saying but when you're with the right person, it doesn't feel so much like "work". You want to put in the effort for your relationship to flourish. There are times when it's hard, no doubt about that but when you work as a team, you can lean on each other to get past those hard time.

Ok, I can agree with this since I observe people around me.

I think that I will stop here with this thread. Everything relevant was probably said, it is just that I came here and I saw the "getting laid post" and therefore I just had to react. Since this is much deeper than just that. I am missing the whole aspect of life since I feel cut off from it.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

she had the affair with and they caught her ... etc etc etc.


The truth is that I am basically the opposite of typical woman but that is no reason to condem me over and over again ?


All I need is some empathy, which for some reason I never got from women. (I still remember when one girl randomly gave me a hug few years ago, it was so strange moment)
Even in thread such as this one women are much more likely to drag me into all kind of arguments and debates instead of offering just a simple understanding. Seriously, where is the catch ?

If I wasn't working over the phone all day I'd have "affairs" too with all my clients every night Teachers are very very naughty. I suppose she was french. One more

I'm not condemning you bloody hell The only thing you are condemned for good on this forum is Not Being Able to Observe your Ego .

Before I could feel some glint of empathy for you, you'll have to gently brush my teeth and clean my feet.


I think I said it all

Your ego was right, we're all some egoistic bitches Hehehe

For the admin please : Could you add some more girlish emoticon ? They aren't enough to express my desperate wisdom to some desperate man who thinks we're all the same

 

[Virtual ghost]

I'm not condemning you bloody hell

"Condeming part" was regarding real life.

 

[highlander]

I don't have phobia of women and I can talk to them without problems in everyday situations or even go to a trip with them (just the two of us). However I am careful about all the problems they hide, since you can never be sure what will set them off and to what degree.

I can agree that I am overthinking this ... since I obviously am. On the other hand I don't agree that stop trying is good choice. I am doing this for years and am preoccupied with other things ... and nothing happens. I simply have to place myself more around women or engage directly, if anything simply since I am a man and therefore by local customs I am the one that has to initiate everything. Plus I am strucured person and therefore it is unlikely that something will just happen if I don't push/nudge from my side. But to be honest I am afraid of being draged into something personal but disfunctional, especially since that happend to me so many times. However all of that doesn't change anything if I want to change my unexistant love life. I am Sx last but I still have desires.

I could get laid 15 years ago since the girl was throwing herself under my feet ... and I rejected her over and over. Even last weekend one girl tried to attract me and I just rolled my eyes and left, causing "obvious" discomfort on her side (and she even was pretty good looking). It is just that because of experiences I have distrust towards women and I have little faith thowards their worldviews or judgement ... in general. Therefore I keep distance.

Yes, everyone was disapponted but I happen to have decades of alienation and lack of care from women. I know that I was dealing with very unhealthy examples of women but women in general still trigger mistrust in me since I didn't find examples that prove otherwise. (take a look at post 42 for some examples)

52% in unemployment rate of young people can have huge impact on dating scene, if anything simply because happy people will be in short supply. Especially if you add growing up during the war time, disfunctional education system, possibly disfunctional family and the fact that those that work don't work as they imagined. (since until very recently economy was in toilet for decades). The only trully good side was that our country is pretty since it was never properly industialized. I am posting here exactly because I often want to get away from the "local atmosphere", while my generation is emmigrating in mass (especially educated people ... so they are in short supply).

Everything you have said in this thread leads me to believe that you have a distorted perception of women and that you have significant issues with trust as it relates to them. All of it leads me to believe the issue is with what is going on in your head and not what's going on with the women. It feels like you want something in starting these threads. I'm not that empathetic so I don't know what that is - whether it's encouragement, caring, advice, etc. As others have suggested though, I would probably seek some therapy to help you work through these issues. Trust is a hugely important thing in relationships and others will only trust you if you are able to trust them.

It is possible you live in one of the most beautiful places in the world. The unemployment rate isn't 52% anymore and there is always opportunity. You'll make of it what you make of it but it's going to be mostly up to you.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Everything you have said in this thread leads me to believe that you have a distorted perception of women and that you have significant issues with trust as it relates to them. All of it leads me to believe the issue is with what is going on in your head and not what's going on with the women. It feels like you want something in starting these threads. I'm not that empathetic so I don't know what that is - whether it's encouragement, caring, advice, etc. As others have suggested though, I would probably seek some therapy to help you work through these issues. Trust is a hugely important thing in relationships and others will only trust you if you are able to trust them.

It is possible you live in one of the most beautiful places in the world. The unemployment rate isn't 52% anymore and there is always opportunity. You'll make of it what you make of it but it's going to be mostly up to you.

Yes, my picture is distorted, I don't claim otherwise. I am simply trying to convince myself that I should forget my experiences and move on (since they are just one big pile of crap that should be forgotten) The thing is that I for the number of reasons never managed to get satisfactory relationship with women or I was physically detached since there were none in my class.
There was always something wrong, it was me or it was them, both, or simply bad circumstances. I have managed to fix more or less stuff on my side but I am so late to the party that I am unsure from where to start. I did read some books on the topic but all of that is pretty light and stereotypical. Therefore in the end it all comes down to trial and error since it seems that there is no "pretty/easy fix to this"


I am financially ok but unemploment of young people is still high and around 40% ... and mosts oppotunities are still lousy. Therefore there is still mass depression present about this, but this is just a side story. You are right that physically the place is very pretty but to us that belong to the "lost generation" that often looks as just another extra layer of sarcasm in our lives.




Regarding mod notes: The thing is that I didn't want to "debate" this once again even if I knew that people will hook up to the thread, but I just had to replay to the "getting laid" post. Therefore people are free to do with this thread what they want since in the end it all comes down to me giving this another shot. I am ok with idea that the thread is moved into more appropriate place if that is necessary.

 

[highlander]

Yes, my picture is distorted, I don't claim otherwise. I am simply trying to convince myself that I should forget my experiences and move on (since they are just one big pile of crap that should be forgotten) The thing is that I for the number of reasons never managed to get satisfactory relationship with women or I was physically detached since there were none in my class. There was always something wrong, it was me or it was them, both, or simply bad circumstances. I have managed to fix more or less stuff on my side but I am so late to the party that I am unsure from where to start. I did read some books on the topic but all of that is pretty light and stereotypical. Therefore in the end it all comes down to trial and error since it seems that there is no "pretty/easy fix to this" I am financially ok but unemploment of young people is still high and around 40% ... and mosts oppotunities are still lousy. Therefore there is still mass depression present about this, but this is just a side story. You are right that physically the place is very pretty but to us that belong to the "lost generation" that often looks as just another extra layer of sarcasm in our lives. Regarding mod notes: The thing is that I didn't want to "debate" this once again even if I knew that people will hook up to the thread, but I just had to replay to the "getting laid" post. Therefore people are free to do with this thread what they want since in the end it all comes down to me giving this another shot. I am ok with idea that the thread is moved into more appropriate place if that is necessary.

I'm sure there are reasons that things have developed to where they are for you and I don't see the answers in your posts. Sometimes we are not able to figure things out all on our own and we need help from others - like a qualified therapist. Because they are so independent this is something INTJs have a harder time figuring out than most. I believe it would be helpful for you to understand the root causes.