"Intuitives", MBTIc, and the internet in general

[Grayscale]

I'm sure many (if not all) of you are aware of the intuitive-type bias here and at INTPc. This actually isn't a thread meant to discuss the types as much as dissemble the behavior behind it, as well as why "Intuitives" favor this forum so much (and to a greater extent, the internet social scene)

Oddly enough this was something that occurred when I had a more naive understanding of MBTI... at the time, I had incorrectly typed myself as INTJ, and based on my understanding of the difference between S and N, I assumed that S-types would be favored in society. I was a little surprised that people so vehemently claimed xNxx to be superior, and finding that the majority of the population was "S" made this supposition more perplexing.

Based on my observations in the "real world" (for lack of a better phrase) I figured abstract thinkers would actually be at a disadvantage, mainly due to the different communication style. I would think that most often others (S and N alike) would view an individual with that trait as strange, irrelevant, or full of ideas (albeit, not uncommonly, poor ones) and only on occasion as highly intelligent many of them consider themselves to be (their ideas would make sense to them, after all). Of course, they may or may not be right, since the reason remains that this is due to a mismatch in communication style and consequently a roll of the dice whether they can relate and legitimize that person's way of thinking.

It would make sense, then, that the subconcious (and sometimes not so subconcious) self-bias seeks resolution from a largely "S" world. The internet is a logical answer to this, because it is virtual and thus doesn't have the same checkpoints that the "real world" does, naturally making it an advantageous environment for the abstract thinking style. INTPc (and to an extent MBTIc), then, would be the apex of this validation, since it manifests that way of thinking into something overt, where then the skewed population can band together in such a commonality, since it runs contrary to our day-to-day world.

in a grander sense, I wonder if it would follow that some "S" types avoid the internet due to the very same reason... they prefer an environment they can "win" in (visualize your average joe in the INTPc chat room )



are there other examples anyone can think of similar to this, or where the concept of "birds of a feather" then evolves into a self-fulfilling commune? do you think an environmental preference could be tied to other type dichotomies, such as the internet being more favorable to introverts for similar reasons?

considering im bringing this up in the very environment it refers to, i know it might be difficult for people to consider it objectively, im just hoping we can favor the scientists and theorists in us for once and not make it personal.

 

[pippi]

Online the interaction is reading which is low sensory, words are not very visual. It is imagination that makes words come alive. That would not appeal to an S the way it does to an N. I don't have data to back this up but it's my understanding that in general Ns enjoy reading much more than Ss. The 'nose in a book' stereotype of an INxx exists for a reason.

From my personal perspective interacting with someone online via words (on a forum, in an email or even instant messaging) is like it's happening all in my own head. It is abstract by the nature of it since you can't see the other person.

 

[entropie]

I hardly know N-types liking "Action Movies", like the new very bad James Bond that has lost all of its original style. Except for INxJ's maybe, who could be into Action films due to their beloved Se.

That's the best I can think of so far. Your description is great, I especially find your language appealing . Made me envious to some extent, cause my english skills are average .

---

I have come to know one other thing, why I prefer the internet to converse over real life. In my sensory group of friends I play cards together on thursdays, it is hard to bring in an idea of your own or to convince them of some connection between things you have drawn. Your words have to create a huge impact in the first moment, if you want to catch their attention. Otherwise you are being dismissed. They are all SJ's; SP's are more likely to listen. And they know that I talk a lot of bullshit, aswell.

I dont see a great need to categorize people for S or N anymore. When I started with MBTI, I was flattered by the N type. Having felt left alone for most of my life, it was a logical consequence to like it, if it is something that actually tells you, why things are what they are.

But today I view the difference between S and N as ones own choice of preference. I do not think that type theory is dynamic that means I do not think that type can evolve, at least not after a certain age. But I think, everyone chooses his things as he likes it and therefore there is no thing like anyone is better. I for example would never operate a patient or say smartass things about botany. Because it's just not my field of expertise (not yet, though ).

I remember a nice conversation I had with my father (iStP). I told him what, I was been taught in university that day. Told him about a new discovery in fluid mechanics and presented him the equations for it and I was fascinated how well everything fitted in the equation. He replied that this all sounds great but in the end it has no practical use, it's just nice to be put onto the wall. Then I drew the whole circle of relations, from fluid mechanics to betterment of car performance and convinced him of its usefulness. He replied then, ok you build that and I check the car out .

That's just an example that scratches only on the surface of things. But it presents intrest of things and that's what I have come to understand N/S to be like.

 

[Nocapszy]

So the theory is, N's like the internet better because they can situate themselves more easily?
It's possible.

It even makes sense.
If you have an unusual point of view, having a wider audience, all of which can access your expressed point of view simultaneously and quickly -- the forum lends itself very well to this, and as well to furthering that point -- is favorable. You're more likely to find someone who identifies with that point of view.
If you have conventional notions, then of course, the most immediate palate will have high likelihood of matching.
Simple probability, and then responding to the positive resulting effects.

It's especially true for introverts. The anonymity helps to keep the attention away from the self, and focused on the ideas/whatever is being discussed.

 

[Nocapszy]

are there other examples anyone can think of similar to this, or where the concept of "birds of a feather" then evolves into a self-fulfilling commune? do you think an environmental preference could be tied to other type dichotomies, such as the internet being more favorable to introverts for similar reasons?

Political rallies for one. We just got a face full of that for the past few months.

considering im bringing this up in the very environment it refers to, i know it might be difficult for people to consider it objectively, im just hoping we can favor the scientists and theorists in us for once and not make it personal.

Well I think everyone's an idiot, so I can be plenty objective.

And still, trying to remain objective; The birds of a feather thing seems more like a component inherent in humans.
I'd more quickly attribute introversion to the popularity of the internet, but the convention to non-convention contrast is definitely a plausible explanation for the circumstances, and would in turn (assuming everyone had typed themselves correctly), result in proportional amount intuitive 'digital KKKism,' irrespective of whether or not they're really better.

 

[Kora]

Maybe Sensors see internet as 'improductive', and only use it as an extension of the real world (myspaces or fotologs, for example of young Sensors). So forums with 'pointless' debate and dissertation is not appealing to them.

 

[Jack Flak]

Re: OP. I've made statements with exactly the same meaning as your post, but I think I used about 10% of the words, because I'm abstract like that. But I agree, of course.

There is no revenge component for myself though, if you think that's part of it. It may be for some.

Think of it like this. The NT, on average, will not be respected in a ball game, just as the SP, on average will not be respected in an abstract intellectual discussion.

 

[Grayscale]

Maybe Sensors see internet as 'improductive', and only use it as an extension of the real world (myspaces or fotologs, for example of young Sensors). So forums with 'pointless' debate and dissertation is not appealing to them.

yes... something else that led me to this, which is that the internet has only become more popular for the "average" person as it has come to offer more to them, practically and socially speaking.


also, my best friend is an INTP, and although he gets along plenty well in the "real world" he does have an abstract approach (although I often understand him and appreciate his humor) that would not fare well with most people if he hadnt developed his interpersonnel communication skills.

since sensory style communication make concrete references, there is fairly low interpretational variance unless there is a misunderstanding in the point of reference. as for abstract-to-concrete or abstract-to-abstract, it depends on whether the person can either grasp the abstract pattern within a concrete reference, or have a preexisting abstraction that comes to mind (although, sometimes I wonder how often it happens that two people think they are communicating but are actually thinking about different things due to the vague nature of their vocabulary)

 

[Simplexity]

I think just on a daily basis for Intuitives the internet is like a solace where you can just go and express and introduce abstract concepts remarkably quick, not to mention the ease of accessibility. In real life it is very hard to get to the same level of abstract discussion in general conversations, personally school doesn't even afford me this opportunity. I think you can even make the extension apply to thinkers in the MBTI sense as well.

I think its almost a form of small talk for thinkers who are also introverted, sometimes just daily chit chat does more to irritate, unnerve, and cloud my memory than it does to release it in a euphoric sense. I was actually bored today and was doing a little people watching and noticed how freeing and relaxing it seemed to some people to just express their feelings with one another regardless of the topic. Like it was both a source of energy and a chance to unwind and relax. I think I get a much similar feeling on forums like this.

 

[sarah]

I'm sure many (if not all) of you are aware of the intuitive-type bias here and at INTPc. This actually isn't a thread meant to discuss the types as much as dissemble the behavior behind it, as well as why "Intuitives" favor this forum so much (and to a greater extent, the internet social scene)

Oddly enough this was something that occurred when I had a more naive understanding of MBTI... at the time, I had incorrectly typed myself as INTJ, and based on my understanding of the difference between S and N, I assumed that S-types would be favored in society. I was a little surprised that people so vehemently claimed xNxx to be superior, and finding that the majority of the population was "S" made this supposition more perplexing.

Based on my observations in the "real world" (for lack of a better phrase) I figured abstract thinkers would actually be at a disadvantage, mainly due to the different communication style. I would think that most often others (S and N alike) would view an individual with that trait as strange, irrelevant, or full of ideas (albeit, not uncommonly, poor ones) and only on occasion as highly intelligent many of them consider themselves to be (their ideas would make sense to them, after all). Of course, they may or may not be right, since the reason remains that this is due to a mismatch in communication style and consequently a roll of the dice whether they can relate and legitimize that person's way of thinking.

It would make sense, then, that the subconcious (and sometimes not so subconcious) self-bias seeks resolution from a largely "S" world. The internet is a logical answer to this, because it is virtual and thus doesn't have the same checkpoints that the "real world" does, naturally making it an advantageous environment for the abstract thinking style. INTPc (and to an extent MBTIc), then, would be the apex of this validation, since it manifests that way of thinking into something overt, where then the skewed population can band together in such a commonality, since it runs contrary to our day-to-day world.

in a grander sense, I wonder if it would follow that some "S" types avoid the internet due to the very same reason... they prefer an environment they can "win" in (visualize your average joe in the INTPc chat room )

are there other examples anyone can think of similar to this, or where the concept of "birds of a feather" then evolves into a self-fulfilling commune? do you think an environmental preference could be tied to other type dichotomies, such as the internet being more favorable to introverts for similar reasons?

considering im bringing this up in the very environment it refers to, i know it might be difficult for people to consider it objectively, im just hoping we can favor the scientists and theorists in us for once and not make it personal.

Several thoughts..

First, there's no way of knowing how many of those people who test as intuitives really do prefer intuition. Pretty much everyone I know who has encountered the MBTI, Keirsey's book, or any of the knockoff tests on the internet thinks he or she is an Intuitive first, and only later comes to the realization that maybe they prefer Sensing, once they've bothered to read about temperament and contemplate which pattern really fits them more. It's ridiculous how often people who prefer Sensing (particularly SPs) are strongly attracted to the answers on type tests that are supposed to be linked with having a preference for Intuition.

Also it's possible that the people who prefer Intuition, particularly the introverts, may be more comfortable with writing their thoughts than in speaking with strangers in person, since you can't edit your spoken words for precision the way you can revise a draft of a post. Also, having person-to-person interactions in "real life" comes with the knowledge that people are paying attention to your appearance, your mannerisms, your physical presence, your voice quality, and whatever is going on around you. People who prefer Sensing probably feel more at home in their bodies and in the present moment than those who prefer intuition. As an ISFP, I admit I'm shy about meeting strangers, but I've been told that I have a very graceful physical presence. I'm very "at home" in my body, and I love to use it expressively, which means writing for me is NOT my most preferred method of relating to others. Aside from talking about type-related issues here and on one other list (because type has helped me quite a lot to improve my real life relationships, and Intuitive people sometimes give me good insights), I don't find the thought of spending lots of my free time socializing online to be attractive at all. I appreciate the way I can edit my posts to say exactly what mean, but I crave immediate, physical feedback from others, and I don't get it through writing. (I will probably never feel motivated to create a blog or keep a journal!)

It seems to me also that arguing abstract points for no immediate practical purpose tends to appeal more to people who are interested more in debating interesting ideas than in asking "is this stuff relevant to my life today?" Seems to me that people who prefer Sensing are more interested in using knowledge in practical ways to solve an actual problem they're facing right now or have faced in the past, and if the problems in their life aren't getting solved through what they're learning, they grow disenchanted and move onto something else.

My .02, for what it's worth.

Sarah
ISFP

 

[The Ü™]

Online the interaction is reading which is low sensory, words are not very visual. It is imagination that makes words come alive. That would not appeal to an S the way it does to an N. I don't have data to back this up but it's my understanding that in general Ns enjoy reading much more than Ss. The 'nose in a book' stereotype of an INxx exists for a reason.

Just because stimulus is visual doesn't make it any less abstract, depending on how you look at it.

N's could also be more impatient with the prolonged focusing on external objects (in this case, words) for long periods of time that inevitably goes into reading.

 

[Jeffster]

Several thoughts..
It's ridiculous how often people who prefer Sensing (particularly SPs) are strongly attracted to the answers on type tests that are supposed to be linked with having a preference for Intuition.

True. I just did that "brutally honest personality test" that somebody bumped the thread on, and it's yet another one that uses questions like "Would you rather follow a familiar approach or try something a new way?" to divide S and N. I think probably all or most SPs are gonna answer "try something a new way" but the test gives a point to N for that. I've really come to the conclusion that the temperament tests in general seem to be more accurate than the MBTI offshoots that force the 4 either/or letters, because very few people seem to be able to come up with N/S questions that don't read as N = creative and innovative, S= stick in the mud fuddy duddy with no original ideas.

 

[The Ü™]

True. I just did that "brutally honest personality test" that somebody bumped the thread on, and it's yet another one that uses questions like "Would you rather follow a familiar approach or try something a new way?" to divide S and N. I think probably all or most SPs are gonna answer "try something a new way" but the test gives a point to N for that. I've really come to the conclusion that the temperament tests in general seem to be more accurate than the MBTI offshoots that force the 4 either/or letters, because very few people seem to be able to come up with N/S questions that don't read as N = creative and innovative, S= stick in the mud fuddy duddy with no original ideas.

Keirsey's test equates trying things a different way and being open to new approaches to P.

 

[mlittrell]

the internet and forums are wonderful things for introverts, especially introverted intuitives, because it allows them to gain skill in socializing in a way that they are comfortable with. at least the extreme introverts. that is why i think we tend to see more introverted intuitives than anyone else on the web.

 

[sarah]

Keirsey's test equates trying things a different way and being open to new approaches to P.

Actually, no. He equates "novel" with intuition, and "tried and true" with sensing on the test in the front of the book. It's really a frustrating test, because basically you aren't going to find ANY SPs thinking they need to stick to tried and true ways of doing things. SPs don't care whether what they're doing is the traditional way or their own way -- being utilitarian and practical, we go for whatever way we think is going to get the job done most impressively.

About the only quick and easy test I think is helpful is the Keirsey Temperament Sorter (in the BACK of Please Understand Me II.) Or the test here, which is even better:

Careerstrength(TM) Step 1

Sarah

 

[The Ü™]

Actually, no. He equates that with intuition. It's really frustrating, because basically you aren't going to find ANY SPs thinking they need to stick to tradiational ways of doing things. SPs don't care whether what they're doing is the "normal" way or their own way -- being utilitarian and practical, we go for whatever way we think is going to get the job done quickly and impressively.

I think the dichotomy of the particular question on the test contrasted "probing for possibilities" against "nailing things down." He considered it P versus J. I know this because I'm holding Please Understand Me II in my hands.

 

[mlittrell]

I think the dichotomy of the particular question on the test contrasted "probing for possibilities" against "nailing things down." He considered it P versus J. I know this because I'm holding Please Understand Me II in my hands.

finally, someone else that actually reads and comprehends Please Understand Me II

 

[Eldanen]

Actually, J. R. R. Tolkien, whom I regard as either an ESTj or ISTp (socionics), loved languages apparently. That seems to be something all delta STs care a lot about. So perhaps it's what Uberfuhrer is saying: that Ns can't stand a lot of word-watching at once.

The reason Ns might enjoy the Internet more than Sensors could be that it's just more abstract.

 

[mlittrell]

though off topic and i am unbiased, many regard tolkien as an INFP

 

[Eldanen]

though off topic and i am unbiased, many regard tolkien as an INFP

He was much too wordy and descriptive of external elements to be an INFP, I think. INFXes like to boil things down in my opinion. Two examples are Terry Brooks and J. K. Rowling. The former is INFp, the latter INFj.