[Other Socionics] INTJs and ESFPs- Similar yet to different - Function analysis

[Dorito]

How often do you run into INTJs?

Not that often really. You're not that common. On the other hand, when I do, I guess it's more common with me that it's not just a passing interaction. I'm pretty damn certain that my supervisor at past job was INTJ. My colleague I share office with is INTJ. I dated one for two years. And I had an INTJ from one of the MBTI groups that I frequent pass through Prague, promised to meet up for coffee, just for a short while, because you can bolt from a coffee pretty quickly if it's too awkward, just to tell him what to see here, and ended up spending each of five days together, just walking around Prague, site-seeing, trying local foods, talking, etc.

Anyway, not enough to make it a general trend, enough to guess at it not being a case of one lone individual.

 

[chubber]

Not that often really. You're not that common. On the other hand, when I do, I guess it's more common with me that it's not just a passing interaction. I'm pretty damn certain that my supervisor at past job was INTJ. My colleague I share office with is INTJ. I dated one for two years. And I had an INTJ from one of the MBTI groups that I frequent pass through Prague, promised to meet up for coffee, just for a short while, because you can bolt from a coffee pretty quickly if it's too awkward, just to tell him what to see here, and ended up spending each of five days together, just walking around Prague, site-seeing, trying local foods, talking, etc.

Anyway, not enough to make it a general trend, enough to guess at it not being a case of one lone individual.

How do you know you are SEE-ESFp-Fi and not a ESI-ISFj-Se?

It's true about the coffee bolting thing so you're more of a risk taker? What was the cause of the end of the 2 year relationship? What do you think of duality? Does it tire you out or do you get bored because of the lack of action?

 

[Abendrot]

This thread reminds me of my ESFP younger sister.
On the surface, we appear to be diametric opposites. However, we recognize that deep down, we are surprisingly similar, and we get along very well.

 

[thepink-cloakedninja]

This thread reminds me of my ESFP younger sister.
On the surface, we appear to be diametric opposites. However, we recognize that deep down, we are surprisingly similar, and we get along very well.

But I thought you viewed the cognitive functions as unreliable?

 

[Dorito]

How do you know you are SEE-ESFp-Fi and not a ESI-ISFj-Se?

It's true about the coffee bolting thing so you're more of a risk taker? What was the cause of the end of the 2 year relationship? What do you think of duality? Does it tire you out or do you get bored because of the lack of action?

You know, I really considered your question a while back. I did type myself as ESI-Se for quite a while. If I put just some points of why I reevaluated, it will not build a case for me. If I put all, it will make for a tremendous long block of text. I'll try hit the middle maybe. I have three younger sisters, who are all extroverted judgers, and they are all really attention grabbing, and me being the oldest one on top, I've pulled myself more in the background, more so for having ADHD and always getting in trouble if I tried for attention. So when I originally typed, I typed as ISFP. Obviously, that was just the first test, not knowing anything about functions or how their dynamics changes when set in different order. After a while, and talking to a bunch of people who were ahead in the whole MBTI business, I conceded that I might be ESFP. After a couple months, I thought if I really was extroverted, people wouldn't drain me so much, so I went back to ISFP. I am part of a Gamma group, and rather active in plenty forums, so I get to talk to a whole bunch of ISFPs, as well as ESFPs. It turns out that I am more out there, more active, more impulsive, more of a doer than any other online or real life ISFP I know. I also use my Te with more regularity and though in the long run it is stressful, if I do it here and there, it can be really fun and rewarding. On the other hand, I struggle with Ni, and it's something I tend to look for in others. My Se and Fi are almost level, but my Te is better than Ni. Apart from that, my instinctual stacking would explain some of why I have more personal than group focus, as I am sx/sp, and so in me is weaker than is average.
To answer you regarding the Dual theory, I like it, and it seems to me to be relevant. It also added a bit to my retyping. I know a lot of ENTJ women (meaning 4), and am friends with them. However, my dynamic with them is that we have a lot of fun together, we always get a lot of shit done when we spend time together, we motivate each other, but in the long run, if we spend too much time together, it gets really exhausting, and we tend to have fights, so we have to tone down the regularity for a while. While with INTJs, we tend to have this often unspoken level of understanding, and we have the opposite dynamics, that the more time we spend together, the more time we want to spend together. I admire their use of Ni, and when they know me enough, they are good with filling the void, and sharing a vision for me down which I would be enthusiastic to explore, and on the other hand, they get enthusiastic about doing whatever I come up with, whether it's just a big of fun, or whether I nudge them towards executing their plans. Looking at that, the ENTJ relationships I have seem to mirror that of Activation, while INTJ seem to mirror Duality for me. I took that as another evidence, that I might be ESFP. It doesn't stand alone, but when you add it to a myriad of other things I have considered, it adds validity.

Yeah, I'm definitely more of a risk taker than any of my ISFP friends, though, having a 6 in my tritype, it seems to be oscillating between hesitation and recklessness. I am both. I love the concept of coffee, because of the option to bolt My relationship ended because of logistics and the situation mostly. Neither of us wanted to end it at that point, but there wasn't an opportunity to move it forward. We had conflicting scheduling, so however much we wanted, it was tough to see each other, and there were certain external complications I won't get in here. In the end it took us much longer to end it, and we have stayed friends since. Now I know him for 4 years.
Duality neither tires me out, nor do I get bored because the lack of action. It's like we create this bubble only me and the Dual are a part of, and it's exciting.

 

[chubber]

You know, I really considered your question a while back. I did type myself as ESI-Se for quite a while. If I put just some points of why I reevaluated, it will not build a case for me. If I put all, it will make for a tremendous long block of text. I'll try hit the middle maybe. I have three younger sisters, who are all extroverted judgers, and they are all really attention grabbing, and me being the oldest one on top, I've pulled myself more in the background, more so for having ADHD and always getting in trouble if I tried for attention. So when I originally typed, I typed as ISFP. Obviously, that was just the first test, not knowing anything about functions or how their dynamics changes when set in different order. After a while, and talking to a bunch of people who were ahead in the whole MBTI business, I conceded that I might be ESFP. After a couple months, I thought if I really was extroverted, people wouldn't drain me so much, so I went back to ISFP. I am part of a Gamma group, and rather active in plenty forums, so I get to talk to a whole bunch of ISFPs, as well as ESFPs. It turns out that I am more out there, more active, more impulsive, more of a doer than any other online or real life ISFP I know. I also use my Te with more regularity and though in the long run it is stressful, if I do it here and there, it can be really fun and rewarding. On the other hand, I struggle with Ni, and it's something I tend to look for in others. My Se and Fi are almost level, but my Te is better than Ni. Apart from that, my instinctual stacking would explain some of why I have more personal than group focus, as I am sx/sp, and so in me is weaker than is average.
To answer you regarding the Dual theory, I like it, and it seems to me to be relevant. It also added a bit to my retyping. I know a lot of ENTJ women (meaning 4), and am friends with them. However, my dynamic with them is that we have a lot of fun together, we always get a lot of shit done when we spend time together, we motivate each other, but in the long run, if we spend too much time together, it gets really exhausting, and we tend to have fights, so we have to tone down the regularity for a while. While with INTJs, we tend to have this often unspoken level of understanding, and we have the opposite dynamics, that the more time we spend together, the more time we want to spend together. I admire their use of Ni, and when they know me enough, they are good with filling the void, and sharing a vision for me down which I would be enthusiastic to explore, and on the other hand, they get enthusiastic about doing whatever I come up with, whether it's just a big of fun, or whether I nudge them towards executing their plans. Looking at that, the ENTJ relationships I have seem to mirror that of Activation, while INTJ seem to mirror Duality for me. I took that as another evidence, that I might be ESFP. It doesn't stand alone, but when you add it to a myriad of other things I have considered, it adds validity.

Yeah, I'm definitely more of a risk taker than any of my ISFP friends, though, having a 6 in my tritype, it seems to be oscillating between hesitation and recklessness. I am both. I love the concept of coffee, because of the option to bolt My relationship ended because of logistics and the situation mostly. Neither of us wanted to end it at that point, but there wasn't an opportunity to move it forward. We had conflicting scheduling, so however much we wanted, it was tough to see each other, and there were certain external complications I won't get in here. In the end it took us much longer to end it, and we have stayed friends since. Now I know him for 4 years.
Duality neither tires me out, nor do I get bored because the lack of action. It's like we create this bubble only me and the Dual are a part of, and it's exciting.

That was quite informative, thanks for sharing.

 

[Abendrot]

But I thought you viewed the cognitive functions as unreliable?

True. The thing about personality typology is that it doesn't have to be valid to work, because they are merely classifying characteristics which already exist. In this regard, dichotomy mbti and function mbti can be thought of as separate classification systems which tend to align; I only favour dichotomy mbti when there is a disagreement between the two. If two people fit ESFP and INTJ well under function mbti, they may well find that they are more similar than they seem, although I don't see that as likely under dichotomies.

 

[chubber]

[MENTION=32888]Dorito[/MENTION], do you think, that if you did not have the ENTj in your life you wouldn't have been the -Fi sub-type? Because I dated an EII-INFj for 2 years, but I slowly started becoming more and more -Te sub-type over time. Is this something you can relate to?

I'm wondering also about the counter phobic 6w7 you might have been instead of the 4w3. Just wondering. How does politeness work for you?

 

[Dorito]

[MENTION=32888]Dorito[/MENTION], do you think, that if you did not have the ENTj in your life you wouldn't have been the -Fi sub-type? Because I dated an EII-INFj for 2 years, but I slowly started becoming more and more -Te sub-type over time. Is this something you can relate to?

I'm wondering also about the counter phobic 6w7 you might have been instead of the 4w3. Just wondering. How does politeness work for you?

I don't think MBTI changes, not even with experiences or trauma really. Expression of type might, but not the actual type. However, I believe that Enneagram and tritype do develop during childhood. I guess I always would have been the Fi subtype, and it seems pretty consistent throughout.

4w3 is my core Enneagram, but I think 6w7 is the runner up. I have wonderful parents, but circumstances had it, that I did not have attention as a child, nor was really understood, nor had the security, and I did have to become responsible way too early (also, oldest child). That pretty much explains my tritype. I think the Fi subtype might be related to my instinctual stacking a little though, since it's SX/SP, and I could see how SX would enhance the Fi over alternatives.

I think I would have been the CP 6w7 core, which is way more typical of ESFPs, rather than 4w3, if my parents weren't studying university when I was born, and if I didn't have an extremely jealous sister born very shortly after me.

Politeness? I don't really care for it per se. I'm a fan of blunt. I prefer when people get to the point, instead of observing all the social graces. How does politeness work for you?

 

[chubber]

I don't think MBTI changes, not even with experiences or trauma really. Expression of type might, but not the actual type. However, I believe that Enneagram and tritype do develop during childhood. I guess I always would have been the Fi subtype, and it seems pretty consistent throughout.

4w3 is my core Enneagram, but I think 6w7 is the runner up. I have wonderful parents, but circumstances had it, that I did not have attention as a child, nor was really understood, nor had the security, and I did have to become responsible way too early (also, oldest child). That pretty much explains my tritype. I think the Fi subtype might be related to my instinctual stacking a little though, since it's SX/SP, and I could see how SX would enhance the Fi over alternatives.

I think I would have been the CP 6w7 core, which is way more typical of ESFPs, rather than 4w3, if my parents weren't studying university when I was born, and if I didn't have an extremely jealous sister born very shortly after me.

Politeness? I don't really care for it per se. I'm a fan of blunt. I prefer when people get to the point, instead of observing all the social graces. How does politeness work for you?

Ok, I'm just wondering about the socionics sub-type because this friend might have been an influence on you because, and this is where I do not have the data, but speculating that this friend from an early age, and because of this early age, had an influence on your type, lets call it base SEE. With your friend, lets say an established LIE, always being in your life, I can't help wondering, because of that, it pushed you in the direction of SEE-Fi. I'm just wondering if there is a correlation, more Fi-dom in my life, pushed me to be more Te-dom (like), and maybe the opposite effect happened to you, more Te-dom in your life, pushed you to be more Fi-dom (like).

About politeness, this is why I'm asking, because I got this from the SEE-Fi sub-type.

A soft yet persistent partner. Always know what they want and how to attain it. They value politeness, aesthetics and good manners. Can display sexual initiative or await it. Inclined to family life in the private sphere and leadership in the public sphere. Love rest and order, which must be introduced within their lifestyle. Aim is for coziness and comfort; they’re mobile and always willing to travel. They require a sober, reasonable and industrious person, who knows how to ensure respect for their household; meanwhile they can care for the rest.

What do you think of the statement above?

However, that cp6w7 is, very interesting, which really makes me think you are really SEE naturally and Fi sub-type because of outer influences (like your LIE friend).

edit: what do I think of politeness?

For me it is a matter of social necessity, survival really, rather because it was so instilled in me, because I'm always considered "rude" to others. So it is my fake persona I carry around to battle the social hierarchy of civilisation and their stupid rules that makes no sense and claiming the moral high ground while being hypocrites. The number one complaint towards me is always, lack of tact. So I do it, to get by, but I don't trust in it. (Maybe because of me having to fake it).

 

[Dorito]

Ok, I'm just wondering about the socionics sub-type because this friend might have been an influence on you because, and this is where I do not have the data, but speculating that this friend from an early age, and because of this early age, had an influence on your type, lets call it base SEE. With your friend, lets say an established LIE, always being in your life, I can't help wondering, because of that, it pushed you in the direction of SEE-Fi. I'm just wondering if there is a correlation, more Fi-dom in my life, pushed me to be more Te-dom (like), and maybe the opposite effect happened to you, more Te-dom in your life, pushed you to be more Fi-dom (like).

About politeness, this is why I'm asking, because I got this from the SEE-Fi sub-type.



What do you think of the statement above?

However, that cp6w7 is, very interesting, which really makes me think you are really SEE naturally and Fi sub-type because of outer influences (like your LIE friend).

edit: what do I think of politeness?

For me it is a matter of social necessity, survival really, rather because it was so instilled in me, because I'm always considered "rude" to others. So it is my fake persona I carry around to battle the social hierarchy of civilisation and their stupid rules that makes no sense and claiming the moral high ground while being hypocrites. The number one complaint towards me is always, lack of tact. So I do it, to get by, but I don't trust in it. (Maybe because of me having to fake it).

I really don't think she changed me. Definitely not towards Fi. Actually, she has taught me how to be assertive, and how to use my Te. It was necessary to assert myself against her, but she would also encourage me to stand up for myself towards others. She helped me get to a healthy place. And it was mutual.

The quote you sent fits, all except for the politeness per se. I don't like people being intentionally rude, and I do have moral standards, however, I don't tend to get all uppity about social graces, and I tend to use swear words a lot.