[MBTI General] INTJ/ISTP relationship...

[lauranna]

Hey INTJs (or those of you that know about them!)
I am an ISTP and i am currently in a fairly new relationship with an INTJ.
Having just got out of a very long term relationship with an ENFJ, i am really loving the INTJ's logical thinker type approach. Dating someone who thinks similarly to me in some ways is really refreshing.
However, i am now wondering how two people who are very much Internal thinker types do end up communicating. As much as i am really liking not being probed about what i am thinking, how will i ever know what the INTJ is thinking? (And does it really matter?!) I have been lead to believe communication about feelings etc is of vital importance (as it obviously is to the ENFJ) but does it really matter?

So basically any insight on this, or how the INTJ will be coping with my impulsiveness, lack of planning, complete independence, living entirely in the current moment, and need for excitement and adventure would be much appreciated!

What does the INTJ love about the ISTP and what do they hate?

i mean at the moment things are good, casual, completely on my terms. she is not asking for any more from me which suits me perfectly. I think she probably wants things to be more serious, but she hasn't mentioned it.
So basically there isn't really a problem at the moment. But i am very wary of people wanting more from me than i can give.
So i would just be intrigued for any insight into what she is thinking really.

Thanks very much
xxx

 

[Economica]

A while ago I gave an ISTP with an ENTJ partner the following advice that I imagine you might also find useful in the future:

Your post describes a core TP/TJ dynamic in my experience:

A TP will often criticize something simply in order to state that that is how they see it and see whether the other person agrees. If they meet disagreement and it is argued satisfactorily, then they learn something; if they meet agreement, then they bond yes with the other person over the shared judgment. A TJ, on the other hand, generally criticizes something in order to change it. We are more interested in the expediency of the result than we are in the integrity of the process, and unless we are careful not to project this bottom line mentality onto others, we all too easily read a nonexistent purposefulness into the criticism of a TP.

Could your husband be interpreting your criticism as requests that he do something differently when in reality you are just seeking to share how you see things and hear his point of view to reassure yourself that your worldviews are indeed compatible (even if he is not burdened with the need to always act in accordance with his principles )?

When he says "that's just the way it is!, get over it" it sounds to me like he is (annoyed and) either refusing what he imagines to be a passive-aggressive request from you that he not borrow your car (I say passive-aggressive because I assume you were officially okay with him borrowing it) or requesting that you quit being so negative. Based on your posts so far you don't strike me as a downer to have around so my money is on the former.

Methinks talking to him about this could go a long way toward improving your communication and thus your happiness with each other. In trying to understand his priorities you just might rediscover what attracted you to him in the first place.

Also, if they don't find their way to this thread on their own, try poking ptgatsby (an ISTP with an INTJ partner) and INTJMom (no points for guessing this one).

 

["?"]

However, i am now wondering how two people who are very much Internal thinker types do end up communicating. As much as i am really liking not being probed about what i am thinking, how will i ever know what the INTJ is thinking? (And does it really matter?!) I have been lead to believe communication about feelings etc is of vital importance (as it obviously is to the ENFJ) but does it really matter?

Simply based on principles of type, ISTPs use Ti and INTJs, Ni. The key phrase is what any introvert is thinking. There is a saying in the type community that, “If you don’t know what an extravert is thinking, you haven’t been listening. If you don’t know what an introvert is thinking, you haven’t asked”. This pretty much sums up a partnership with either type although some type enthusiasts believe that when it comes to relationships, someone will have to take on roles that are lacking (ie in two perceiving relationships one may be forced to be more judging and one introvert may have to be more extraverted for the sake of protection from the outside world.

So basically any insight on this, or how the INTJ will be coping with my impulsiveness, lack of planning, complete independence, living entirely in the current moment, and need for excitement and adventure would be much appreciated!

ISTPs and INTJs have many commonalities. First they both share the same interaction style of Chart the Course. To the contrary ISTPs can be just as intense about planning as INTJ,ISTJ and INFJ. The difference is that where ITJs may be prone to writing down their plans (Te), ISTPs keep them organized in their heads (Ti) and find it unnecessary to write down. This site is usually attached to my sig on some forums that show why some ISTPs may confuse themselves as INTs. Some additional commonalities of the two per Berens is that Ni and Ti work similarly in their fondness for complexity, and Se and Te on the respective auxiliary functions are used to review information empirically. The differences are that your Ti may hone in on basic principles and become too narrow in thinking whereas her Ni may not be completely aware of where she is obtaining her information from, but just feels right. Where your Se will be more willing to take a risk and learn as you go her Te may need more information before taking any action. The latter is exampled from ENTJ/ESTP similarities.

As for the rest of your comment, although it pertains to type somewhat these examples are part of being in any relationships with less to do with MBTI and more on merely having successful relations. Personality Page provides some tips for types in their strengths and weaknesses:

INTJ Strengths
• Not threatened by conflict or criticism
• Usually self-confident
• Take their relationships and commitments seriously
• Generally extremely intelligent and capable
• Able to leave a relationship which should be ended, although they may dwell on it in their minds for awhile afterwards
• Interested in "optimizing" their relationships
• Good listeners

INTJ Weaknesses
• Not naturally in tune with others feelings; may be insensitive at times
• May tend to respond to conflict with logic and reason, rather than the desired emotional support
• Not naturally good at expressing feelings and affections
• Tendency to believe that they're always right
• Tendency to be unwilling or unable to accept blame
• Their constant quest to improve everything may be taxing on relationships
Tend to hold back part of themselves

ISTP Strengths
• Good listeners
• Usually self-confident
• Generally optimistic and fun to be with
• Practical and realistic, they handle daily concerns
• Are not threatened by conflict or criticism
• Able to leave a relationship with relative ease once it is over
• Able to administer punishment, although they're not interested in doing so
• Likely to respect other's needs for space and privacy

ISTP Weaknesses
• Living entirely in the present, they have difficulty with long-term commitments
• Not naturally good at expressing feelings and emotions
• Not tuned in to what others are feeling, they may be insensitive at times
• Tendency to be overly private and hold back part of themselves
• Need a lot of personal space, which they don't like to have invaded
• They thrive on action and excitement, and may stir things up to create it

Sorry for the long post.

 

[ptgatsby]

As much as I would love to give direct advice, type only shows tendencies and that makes any help fuzzy at best. So keep that in mind - both ISTPs and INTJs have a large range of personal perferences that matter a great deal. It's always going to be "what do you need, what do they need" kind of a thing... but...

However, i am now wondering how two people who are very much Internal thinker types do end up communicating. As much as i am really liking not being probed about what i am thinking, how will i ever know what the INTJ is thinking?

A lot of this depends on the style of communication that both of you have. I'm extremely introverted and my wife finds it really difficult to get anything out of me. On the other hand, she tends to ramble a lot more to fill the silence. For the most part, it is the gap in introversion that matters more than the absolute tendency. The average person would probably say we barely talk, while my wife thinks I don't talk enough, while I think she talks too much. It's very relative.

Having said that, I make sure we do put "aside" time to just talk - something we do really like doing. So here it is the preference that is an issue - in day to day life, without intentional awareness, we just sort of skip relating to each other.

A problem, but nothing major. It also means we have our own space when we need it, and means when we do go out to talk, we talk.

Talking is important. It doesn't need to be purposeful - it's a bonding thing, afterall - but if the couple can bond over the topics or whatever, then content makes bonding more powerful. Given that ISTPs and INTJs aren't likely to be bonding over emotional feel-goody stuff, this is a good way to make up for the shortcoming.

(And does it really matter?!) I have been lead to believe communication about feelings etc is of vital importance (as it obviously is to the ENFJ) but does it really matter?

It matters, but neither one of you will tend to think it does, or be aware of the impact of being unaware of it ( ). That's the single largest issue with the relationship dynamics, I think - a lack of emotional awareness... and it goes both ways.

So basically any insight on this, or how the INTJ will be coping with my impulsiveness, lack of planning, complete independence, living entirely in the current moment, and need for excitement and adventure would be much appreciated!

It's really not that bad. If the INTJ isn't too rigid and is open enough to new experiences, the dynamic is very good. The ISTP takes the INTJ out, and the INTJ takes the ISTP out. Both get to grow from this, doing different things and seeing new things. INTJs can be prone to an insular life - certainly not all, but there is a certain tendency to remain with the familiar - kind of like a specialisation in their field, they move up rather than broadly. ISTPs can also be prone to sticking with their niche, especially if it already fits into their nature (be it mechanic, research or adrenaline junkie). So both can benefit from the other's styles, IMO.

However, both parties need to put aside the concept of independence, at least in the long run. The ISTP version is... how do you say... not very supportive of long term relationships - too much flee response! The INTJ version can have the same effect, but isn't as pronounced (lack of feedback moving into the "cut and run" attitude).

On the INTJ side, it really depends on if they will respect your way or not. If not, there will be problems... and unfortunately, the INTJ can be really inflexible in this regard. On the other hand, if they do, they are extremely supportive... so it runs both ways. More mature INTJs can certainly disagree and still support, but it can be difficult.

And on the ISTP side, it depends if we can push down our "don't tell me what to do" long enough to actually do the dishes when asked. ( )

What does the INTJ love about the ISTP and what do they hate?

My wife likes my enthusiasm over my projects (read: impulsive, current moment, excitement). I'm actually an extreme planner, so the other parts you describe don't fit me well, just as my wife dislikes long-range planning.

She doesn't like me not doing the chores, or being late, or upsetting her schedule. The laissez-faire aspects can really grate on her. In my case, the introversion can also be difficult.

In a good relationship, the INTJ should enjoy the ISTPs will to enjoy and do, but unlike a lot of E equivalents, will tend to be reserved and contemplative. At least, we'll think a little before doing something. Sometimes we'll get an idea and just jump into it, but we still tend sit around thinking about it a little. That helps a lot.

Oh, that reminds me of one other thing that annoys them - undertaking something, getting them involved (they tend to want to be, if they are able to be, especially if they can feel useful) and then, in normal P style, not finishing it. They can take that personally.

 

["?"]

Sounds as though you and Gobbledegook are on similar paths about the same types in a relationship. Maybe you two can help each other out.

 

[lauranna]

Hi All,

Just wanted to say a huge thank you for all your insights.... It has all been really helpful.
I mean i know it probably seems really straightforward to you but what really helped was:

There is a saying in the type community that, “If you don’t know what an extravert is thinking, you haven’t been listening. If you don’t know what an introvert is thinking, you haven’t asked”.

So i figured it was best to ask. What she was thinking rather than what she was feeling. And i really liked the chat we had about what we were both thinking. With no delving for feelings and the like! (Which was definitley a relief)

I guess the INTJ is not that different from me after all.
I mean realistically i only want a casual relationship with no commitment(Yes i am still the ultimate commitment phobe!) But it is best i think that this is with a thinker rather than a feeler. I don't want emotions and feelings clouding things.
She is a lawyer and works a lot of hours. So i think she likes my spontenaity and casualness when i drag her out of work to do fun stuff. And while she says she eventually wants happy ever after, right now she is realistic enough to enjoy our relationship for what it is. Which suits me fine!

Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for letting me know that we do think similarly in some ways and it is fair enough to ask her what she thinks about things- and indeed when you ask, you get an answer!

Which i guess is the same as me. If someone i care about asks me what i think about something, i would generally tell them.

So thanks for all your help guys