[INFP] INFPs: Which type do you think is your ideal romantic match?

[OrangeAppled]

My ideal match has definitely been ESTJ. I'm speaking of those who are Te + Si and extroverted rational in Jung, not the shallow mbti portrait. You have to read Jung on Te + Si to get the ESTJ type.

Wow, I do see ENFJ is a frequent choice on the poll. I think there's been some major misleading mbti influence on your typings.

I base my typings on Jung. You seem to have a Socionics slant to your understanding. Much of what you say seems based on that, not Jung, IMO. To me, Socionics is not faithful to Jung and has a very different take on the functions.

I'm not doubting you or your partner's type nor saying INFPs & ESTJs can't work out, but I don't think the rest of us are wrong either. I think successful "dual" pairings are more rare than not.

As Jung describes, Fe and Fi are completely dousing, disorienting, barbaric thought processes to one another. INFPs and ENFJs easily miscommunicate and struggle between Fx, Nx, Sx, and Tx, having much all around relational difference and discomfort.

I don't see Jung's descriptions saying that... what he touches on with Fi and Fe is brief, and not so terrible & opposed as you make out. I don't find the conflicts with Fe any worse than with Te. There ARE conflicts, and the miscommunication is real, but it is not unmanageable. Both types prefer to evaluate with Feeling, which goes a long way to bridging gaps. Je is hard for me in general, so the commonality of simply preferring Feeling can help.

Frankly, most ESTJs treat me like a degenerate who snuck in the back door and is out to destroy the order of the universe. At best, they dismiss me as harmless but silly, and ignore me. I'm either overrated in my ability to destroy & rebel or underrated in every other way. I don't have this problem with other xxTJs, which is interesting.

Also, I find they don't take any personal interest in me, which is a problem. I need personal interest reciprocated. I'm not really sure what these people expect to bond over.... When I've dated people seriously, it's because they always made me feel like I was the most interesting person in the room for them. With ESTJs, I feel like they just want an audience, especially "followers" who admire them and want their guidance. Well, I don't want to date a DAD figure.

And frankly, they never talk about anything in depth. They may have some strong moral convictions, but it's so cut & dry I'm not even charmed by it. All they talk about is what they're going to DO, how they'll meet some goal, etc. Their Ne is not engaging as it is with an NP. Their humor is a performance; it lacks the connecting an NP will do (which often hits on some deeper truth too - real wit). I like mutual banter, not watching someone else who thinks they're funny.

And they certainly don't seem impressed by me. I constantly have the feeling of being totally misunderstood and unfairly judged. Even my positive traits get demonized by them. Instead of being seen as creative, book smart & empathetic, I get interpreted as snobby, bizarre, and moody.

I actually had a small crush on an ESTJ not so long ago, but once I opened my eyes and became rational again, my distaste became even deeper. I realized just how fundamentally incompatible I am with such a person, and how they could never, ever even begin to grasp me. Perhaps I don't really grasp them either; I'm okay with admitting that.

While ENFJs have the cult leader thing going on, at least they can be charming and personable . They often will express admiration for my creativity, bookishness, integrity, etc - the stuff my ego is formed around, so of course I respond. Who knows - maybe it doesn't work with them either in the long run. It always feels like something blocks us from moving forward romantically.

I don't know the INFP's ideal then. I continue to be melodramatic and think there is none. Or perhaps each individual INFP is so individual there can be no standard

I've never had a meaningful relationship with an ENFJ and have never been able to feel anywhat close to them without serious problems occurring. I honestly believe you're mistaking what INFP and ENFJ are, as never do these types coexist like this relationally.

I've had meaningful relationships with ESTJs, but it's usually a woman friend, and it's not typical. We don't seem to run in the same circles much either, but ENFJs and I often share a lot of common interests. I've connected emotionally with ENFJs much more deeply as well.

Your view seems very much led by Socionics though....

---------

I got this from typelogic, and I personally find its type relations more accurate, however brief and vague.
Anyone see an "ideal" in these? They look more promising than Socionics (which maks everything but the dual look hopeless).

For an INFP:

INTJ - Advisor: each has an area of insight that the other lacks
ESFJ - Cohort: mutually drawn into experiential escapades
INTP - Companion: similar modes of expression: bear each other's company well
INFJ - Complement: compatible strengths with opposite emphases
ISTJ - Supplement: like Pal, but functions are farther removed; each can add to the other's strengths
ENTP - Tribesman: share a sense of culture, but with different interests and abilities
ESTJ - Anima/Animus: each is the other's inferior function
ENFJ - Contrast: point and counterpoint on each function
ESFP - Counterpart: perform similar functions in totally different realms
ISTP - Enigma: a puzzle; totally foreign in nearly every facet
INFP - Identity: same type; a typological mirror-image
ISFP - Neighbor: arrive at the same place by variant processes
ESTP - Novelty: intriguingly different, interestingly so
ENFP - Pal: work and play well together; minimal natural type conflict
ENTJ - Pedagogue: each is both the other's mentor and student; has a "parent to child" feel
ISFJ - Suitemate: a person one might be comfortable sharing an office. Prefer similar climates, but don't necessarily have much in common as far as goals or world view

 

[Cellmold]

And frankly, they never talk about anything in depth. They may have some strong moral convictions, but it's so cut & dry I'm not even charmed by it. All they talk about is what they're going to DO, how they'll meet some goal, etc. Their Ne is not engaging as it is with an NP. Their humor is a performance; it lacks the connecting an NP will do (which often hits on some deeper truth too - real wit). I like mutual banter, not watching someone else who thinks they're funny.

Hmm that sounds like me .

/closet ESTJ

With fair observation though, (this is a general thought not aimed at anyone in particular), I will say that while there are most likely lots of type matches that don't work based on typological differences, I would say there are also still some exceptions. I would not rule someone out just because they were of a type that I had not got on well with before, after all this person might be the same type functionally, but they are a different individual within or without that type.

 

[Society]

ok, so now my previously ENFP mother claims she's introverted... i personally think that's just insane misunderstanding of Jungian introversion/extroversion & any definition of introversion/extroversion out there ... but if that is true, then she'd be an INFP, and her two most successful relationships would be with an INTJ (my father) and an ISTJ (her current boyfriend).

 

[jinks]

I'm always intellectually attracted to INTJs but often find they are on the whole a bit too douche-y for me. not enough empathy and too much energy required to help cultivate it in romantic relationship. I like INTPs a hell of a lot too, though mostly no actually chemistry. on the whole I am pretty attracted to xxFJ types, and my two most serious past relationships have been INFJ and ISFJ. currently crushing with devastating unrequitedness on another INFJ. sigh.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

I've completely fallen for someone. We connected on a shared sense of humor but time with him is effortless and I don't wanna be away from him. Everything feels natural. Hes so warm, charismatic and everyone seems to want to chat him up but some reason, he has been steadily pursuing me. Im just blown away by him. Found out he's an INFP. Anyway, I think it's an awesome match so far.

Maybe that typologic description is somewhat accurate. He first described me as 'intriguing' to him.

 

[INTP]

Oh, so you think so?

There's no foundation for this, neither theoretical nor empirical. Check out the cognitive functions threads. Almost all the INTPs have Fi>Fe.

function tests suck and arent even measuring functions, but are looking for cues for functions, but fail.

There is this interesting term:

Equifinality is the principle that in open systems a given end state can be reached by many potential means.

and

Multifinality refers to the concept that various outcomes may stem from similar beginnings.

What comes out from the functions is stuff has many different outcomes, as they are ways of doing various things, thus what comes out is multifinality.
+
However, what the function tests are measuring are outcomes, which can be achieved by various functions, for example a person with inferior Fe and dom Ti might score Fi due to Fe+Ti together may lead to similar outcomes in test questions. Thus what the tests are measuring are equifinalities.
=
Fail test

 

[Standuble]

ok, so now my previously ENFP mother claims she's introverted... i personally think that's just insane misunderstanding of Jungian introversion/extroversion & any definition of introversion/extroversion out there ... but if that is true, then she'd be an INFP, and her two most successful relationships would be with an INTJ (my father) and an ISTJ (her current boyfriend).

I honestly think she is bullshitting you and/or herself. A lot of ENFPs seem to fap to the possibility that they're introverted for some reason despite the fact that taking a break before the Ne causes your brain to explode =/= being drained by social interaction.

From what I understand INFP and ITJ relationships have an initial spark but then it eventually culminates in failure (sometimes on a timescale of weeks or months rather than years.) The INFP finds the ITJ types too boring and bland and they find the INFPs too sensitive and/or emotional. ENFPs work with INTJs and occasionally ISTJs (if the ENFPs Te is developed and the ISTJ pulls the stick out of their ass.)

 

[Standuble]

Pretty much.



I know quite a few INFP/ITJ couples – as many as ENFP/ITJ couples – and I’ve made a case as to why this pairing isn’t infrequent, is actually found quite often, and why it’s very successful/optimal, and also why ENFP is of course also a good option but isn’t the perfect option and that pairing can have its drawbacks in comparison. However due to threat of being burned at the stake, I won’t repeat it. But yeah, I guess I disagree that it wouldn't work well. I also think in general INFPs are more likely to be seen as too sensitive and/or emotional by TJs if they are E4 INFPs.

I don't ascribe to the idea that ENFP/INTJ are the perfect match, just that there are fewer impediments than INFP/INTJ relationships. But perhaps I am being overly selective and biased. Any relationship could technically work with sufficient compromise. As for TJs and E4's, I think its more likely that the E4 INFP would dump the INTJ or end the relationshp than the other way around whether it be due to a desire to abandon-before-abandoned or that the E4 starts to feel that they have either partnered with someone beneath them or someone who's only contribution to their life is to undermine or impede on their individualism and autonomy. Plus all INFPs will not be happy if their values are violated by an INTJ blunt moment.

 

[OrangeAppled]

^ Hm, come to think of it I know an older INFP woman (known her my whole life, funny how I only see myself in her now) at my church whose ex is ISTJ and current husband INTJ. She seems better matched with the INTJ, but a lot of it is likely unrelated to type. He's really just a nicer, healthier person than the ISTJ. Pretty sure both ITJs are 6s, and pretty sure she is a 4. Anyhow, the extremely expressive, dramatic behavior wrongly associated with 4s is likely due to ENFP e2s mistyping, IMO (e2 is the Histrionic type, e4 the Depressive type). She just seems sad a lot, which is pretty much how I come off in person. 4s are the 2nd most withdrawn type, so the idea that we're always emoting is weird.

This INFP has commented that her current INTJ husband is way more considerate of her feelings than the ISTJ was. I notice he has more of a Romantic streak like her, something I find true of INTJs when compared to ISTJs. However, I'd say he is exceptionally humble and patient with people for an INTJ, but I'm noticing that's the case with xNTJs when they have a strong religious/spiritual inclination.

I've been around quite a few INFPs lately, more than I've ever encountered in my life in a short time frame, and the e9s, IMO, seem more emotionally open in everyday life, often unaware of their feelings showing (& it's largely positive feeling), but are probably less fiery/feisty in private. 4s are more intense, but also more contained in the day to day. The above-mentioned INFP in particular is also less overtly warm, much more aloof and less accommodating than the e9s. Although she goes out of her way to be kind to people, there's more of a wall up when interacting with others and a stronger sense of sadness. The e9s seem less "affected" though, like they just flow with life, and instead of a wall you get this "checking out" reaction from them a lot, as if they just ignore stuff. IDK, I'm going on a tangent now, but I've working on a 9 vs 4 write-up and so it's on my mind.... Frankly, neither the e4 nor e9 INFPs seems as sensitive, openly emotional and reactive to me as e2, e6 and even e7 ExFPs (who are some of the biggest drama queens, but still love 'em ). I consider myself very sensitive, but it's not necessarily the reactive variety, so I'm surprised at how much more pouty and sensitive other women get in social situations cough: xxFJs :cough: ). Quite a bit will roll off my back....

 

[Standuble]

Yes, this makes sense. I had an INFP E4 roommate in college, and that sounds like a course of action she might well take. I know as a 9 stability is extremely important to me. I’m unlikely to enter into relationships (romantic or otherwise) where I would decide I was then leaving, which is why I take forever and am extremely rigorous in my vetting process. In the thread I mentioned above, I recall both [MENTION=13147]senza tema[/MENTION] and I (who are both 9s) said that INFPs require a huge deposit right off the bat, but once the initial work is done, things only get easier, where with other types you can end up paying down the road.

I can relate with the desire to be selective though perhaps the reasoning varies. It is a deviation from a theme of career vs relationships. Basically I often conclude that I would not be able to organise a life to have both and a partner and/or kids will severely stifle autonomy so I would not be able to pursue personal significance and an existence I can declare sufficient upon my death. Essentially a partner would need to be an equal to the point where I do not predict a loss of autonomy (outside of acceptable levels) and that they are actually worth the cost of sacrifice. If I work under the assertion that I cannot achieve anything and inadequacy is a constant then I find mysef desiring relatonships and intimacy but it is in the same vein as "trump card" to compensate and thus not a healthy option which I should pursue. When I lose my dreams they tend to create problems for me. On the whole I do not know whether stability is an important factor as I can break off and become financially and emotionally independent quite quickly but keeping an eye on the board at least is necessary. The biggest game-changer would be emotion and the desire for intimacy causing me to not be able to follow what Fi wants, it's only in this scenario do I forsee stability becoming a critical factor.

I do agree with your idea that INFPs require a deposit and perhaps the above is mine (even if essentially colossal in nature.) Afterwards I can only see an INFP giving up due to a mid-life-crisis or if their heart is broken.

^ Hm, come to think of it I know an older INFP woman (known her my whole life, funny how I only see myself in her now) at my church whose ex is ISTJ and current husband INTJ. She seems better matched with the INTJ, but a lot of it is likely unrelated to type. He's really just a nicer, healthier person than the ISTJ. Pretty sure both ITJs are 6s, and pretty sure she is a 4. Anyhow, the extremely expressive, dramatic behavior wrongly associated with 4s is likely due to ENFP e2s mistyping, IMO (e2 is the Histrionic type, e4 the Depressive type). She just seems sad a lot, which is pretty much how I come off in person. 4s are the 2nd most withdrawn type, so the idea that we're always emoting is weird.

Welcome back. If you're anything like me you haven't transcended the desire to be histrionic and dramatic, you just keep them locked up inside like its a genie. But outside of being a mistype that may just me disintegrating down into the pits.

This INFP has commented that her current INTJ husband is way more considerate of her feelings than the ISTJ was. I notice he has more of a Romantic streak like her, something I find true of INTJs when compared to ISTJs. However, I'd say he is exceptionally humble and patient with people for an INTJ, but I'm noticing that's the case with xNTJs when they have a strong religious/spiritual inclination.

I have read (no source I'm afraid) that the Ni can often open itsef to notions of mysticism where in the NTJ it can be kept in check by well developed logic. This can swing both ways with at one extreme an empiricist sciencist paradigm and on the other a highly religious and/or cultist type. Perhaps it merely hangs on the ratio of Te to Fi in determining which way the Ni scales tip (though Te =/= pragmatic empiricist and Fi =/= religion and spirituality.)

I've been around quite a few INFPs lately, more than I've ever encountered in my life in a short time frame, and the e9s, IMO, seem more emotionally open in everyday life, often unaware of their feelings showing (& it's largely positive feeling), but are probably less fiery/feisty in private. 4s are more intense, but also more contained in the day to day. The above-mentioned INFP in particular is also less overtly warm, much more aloof and less accommodating than the e9s. Although she goes out of her way to be kind to people, there's more of a wall up when interacting with others and a stronger sense of sadness. The e9s seem less "affected" though, like they just flow with life, and instead of a wall you get this "checking out" reaction from them a lot, as if they just ignore stuff. IDK, I'm going on a tangent now, but I've working on a 9 vs 4 write-up and so it's on my mind.... Frankly, neither the e4 nor e9 INFPs seems as sensitive, openly emotional and reactive to me as e2, e6 and even e7 ExFPs (who are some of the biggest drama queens, but still love 'em ). I consider myself very sensitive, but it's not necessarily the reactive variety, so I'm surprised at how much more pouty and sensitive other women get in social situations cough: xxFJs :cough: ). Quite a bit will roll off my back....

I agree with this. Have fun with your write-up.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Welcome back. If you're anything like me you haven't transcended the desire to be histrionic and dramatic, you just keep them locked up inside like its a genie. But outside of being a mistype that may just me disintegrating down into the pits.

Not a desire, but a beast I feed out of fear of dullness. My 2 meltdown moments are still not public though. I wouldn't take any 2 on in putting on a show....

 

[Zarathustra]

I have to say: when I made these threads, I never imagined the INFP one would be the longest...

 

[OrangeAppled]

^ I'm pretty sure this thread will never die.

 

[Zarathustra]

Honestly, I haven't read it in a while.

But I figured I'd let it get to a few hundred pages, then I'd come in and collect the gold.

 

[PeaceBaby]

I've been around quite a few INFPs lately, more than I've ever encountered in my life in a short time frame, and the e9s, IMO, seem more emotionally open in everyday life, often unaware of their feelings showing (& it's largely positive feeling), but are probably less fiery/feisty in private.

fwiw, I know what is visible and what I am choosing to conceal. I don't think you should assume ... unawareness. And, yes, it would be the positive stuff for the most part that is seen.

 

[sorenx7]

I have to say: when I made these threads, I never imagined the INFP one would be the longest...

I think it says a lot about INFP priorities, maybe not something non-INFPs would be aware of, but certainly self-evident to INFPs.

 

[OrangeAppled]

I don't think you should assume ... unawareness.

I don't think I'm assuming. I don't jump to conclusions casually. I was raised by a Fi-dom 9 and one of my best friends is one, so I hear a lot from the inside. This is referring to theory also (losing awareness of the self is part of the 9 ego fix). The direct positive expression is more conscious (although I still don't think the merging is), but the negative seems like more of a "leaking out".

FYI, I don't think 4s always consciously choose what feelings they reveal either, but it's more like being inhibited when you don't want to be. The hyper self-awareness of the 4 cripples positive feeling & making connections with people, whereas losing yourself a bit & blocking out awareness of the negative allows merging. Anyway, I'm still working on my little 9/4 comparison/contrast. More to come.... you can take issue with it when it's posted .

 

[Zarathustra]

*eagerly awaits the INFP 4 vs INFP 9 wrestling match*

(feel free to include something about how awesome INTJs are.)

 

[Coriolis]

What are you doing - trying to precipitate an INFP/INTJ fetishists thread???

(Could be entertaining . . . )

 

[Zarathustra]

Beat me to it.

Was gunna say, "Already traveled that road..."

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/nf-idyllic/55712-enfps-infps-better-intjs.html