[Traditional Enneagram] INFJ with Enneagram Type 2?

[Norrsken]

I read that apparently, with MBTI types and its correlations with the enneagrams, that INFJs are usually types four, one, and six. [Source]
But is it possible to be an INFJ type 2? And how come I do not see it often?

 

[Punderstorm]

Any type can be any enneagram, some combos are rarer than others. An INFJ 2 is not unheard of, but it's still pretty rare.

 

[Norrsken]

Any type can be any enneagram, some combos are rarer than others. An INFJ 2 is not unheard of, but it's still pretty rare.

I am a freak, lmao, I'm kidding. I wonder if an INFJ type 2 are the kinds to become overly gushy or too pushy with trying to help other people? Or taking on a lot of responsibilities (work, school, other people's troubles, house chores, etc) in order to receive love? What do you think?

 

[Fidelia]

I thought I was a 2, but I think I'm just a 1 with a strong 2 wing, so first and I'm an INFJ.

 

[Norrsken]

I thought I was a 2, but I think I'm just a 1 with a strong 2 wing, so first and I'm an INFJ.

I think I had your result on a recent enneagram test, otherwise I am either type 2, type 4, type 6, or on a rare basis, a type 9. I am somewhat in shock at how two people can share the same MBTI type but can behave quite differently based on their enneagrams and their wings. I do hope I can kind a kindred spirit who has the same types as I do- I am finding it difficult to balance my ability to care so deeply about other people and finding the self respect to stand up for myself when others take it too far.

I am rambling, so I apologize, carry on.

 

[Punderstorm]

I am a freak, lmao, I'm kidding. I wonder if an INFJ type 2 are the kinds to become overly gushy or too pushy with trying to help other people? Or taking on a lot of responsibilities (work, school, other people's troubles, house chores, etc) in order to receive love? What do you think?

What you're describing sounds 2w1, so yes.

 

[KitchenFly]

I read that apparently, with MBTI types and its correlations with the enneagrams, that INFJs are usually types four, one, and six. [Source]
But is it possible to be an INFJ type 2? And how come I do not see it often?

Yes the 2w3 is ISFJ AND THE 2w3 is the ENFJ.

TRUST ME THAT IS THE WAY IT IS.

best of luck.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

I read that apparently, with MBTI types and its correlations with the enneagrams, that INFJs are usually types four, one, and six. [Source]
But is it possible to be an INFJ type 2? And how come I do not see it often?

I see this as pretty natural. An INFJ I know is also a 2 ( not sure about wing) and the description of 2s and Fe seem pretty consistent or at least strongly relatable. If we're using enneagram as a measuring stick for functions ( which is sketchy at best) then I'd say a lot of true 2s probably have some strong Fe component. Similarly strong Fe types like INFJs that type E4 may actually be mistyped in MBTI ( perhaps they are IxFP) since there seems to be a strong correlation between Fi and E4.

 

[Norrsken]

Yes the 2w3 is ISFJ AND THE 2w3 is the ENFJ.

TRUST ME THAT IS THE WAY IT IS.

best of luck.

I think any MBTI type can be any enneagram type, though?

I see this as pretty natural. An INFJ I know is also a 2 ( not sure about wing) and the description of 2s and Fe seem pretty consistent or at least strongly relatable. If we're using enneagram as a measuring stick for functions ( which is sketchy at best) then I'd say a lot of true 2s probably have some strong Fe component. Similarly strong Fe types like INFJs that type E4 may actually be mistyped in MBTI ( perhaps they are IxFP) since there seems to be a strong correlation between Fi and E4.

That does make sense. What is it that stick out to you about this INFJ you know in real life? How does she behave in a social situation?

 

[Bush]

I think any MBTI type can be any enneagram type, though?

Some combos are much more plausible, (internally) identifiable, and conceivable than others, but none of them are necessarily 100% nixed.

There's an INFJ 3w4 floating around somewhere on the forums, and it actually makes sense given their posts. For one thing, it's smack dab in the middle of the Heart center.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

That does make sense. What is it that stick out to you about this INFJ you know in real life? How does she behave in a social situation?

She's highly compassionate about others. When someone (she's gotten to know well) is in need of support she takes it as a personal challenge as in what can she do to enhance the other person's situation for the better. She'll even rearrange her plans just to give special one on one time for a friend in need often to the sacrifice of something else she really wanted to do. She actually feels empowered by helping out friends in real ways even if its just knowing they felt better after spending time with her than they did before. Also, typical for a 2, she sometimes feels that her compassion isn't reciprocated or she is under appreciated for her efforts since some people just expect her to be there as support. She, however, doesn't like to feel like she's not being instrumental or relevant to someone in some way ( in fact that's her biggest fear I'd say).

In social situations she's reserved enough to where she won't actively seek out many people to talk to but handles herself well when a conversation is initiated by someone else with her. Often times she is either really interested and attuned/fixated on what the other person is saying or if she isn't, she still pretends while she is as she secretly is devising a plan to abandon the uninteresting conversation without hurting the other person's feelings on her account.

I personally find her awesome but also slightly annoying when she's in the mood of involving herself with trying to help me ( especially when I don't need it). I actually prefer the company of my INFJ 9 friend a little more because she's personable like my 2 friend but she's less invasive and more chilled out.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

Some combos are much more plausible, (internally) identifiable, and conceivable than others, but none of them are necessarily 100% nixed.

There's an INFJ 3w4 floating around somewhere on the forums, and it actually makes sense given their posts. For one thing, it's smack dab in the middle of the Heart center.

Agreed, some combinations are less likely than others but not altogether impossible. For example, it's probably extremely rare to find an ENTP type 2 or 4( as a primary core type)

 

[Norrsken]

She's highly compassionate about others. When someone (she's gotten to know well) is in need of support she takes it as a personal challenge as in what can she do to enhance the other person's situation for the better. She'll even rearrange her plans just to give special one on one time for a friend in need often to the sacrifice of something else she really wanted to do. She actually feels empowered by helping out friends in real ways even if its just knowing they felt better after spending time with her than they did before. Also, typical for a 2, she sometimes feels that her compassion isn't reciprocated or she is under appreciated for her efforts since some people just expect her to be there as support. She, however, doesn't like to feel like she's not being instrumental or relevant to someone in some way ( in fact that's her biggest fear I'd say).

In social situations she's reserved enough to where she won't actively seek out many people to talk to but handles herself well when a conversation is initiated by someone else with her. Often times she is either really interested and attuned/fixated on what the other person is saying or if she isn't, she still pretends while she is as she secretly is devising a plan to abandon the uninteresting conversation without hurting the other person's feelings on her account.

I personally find her awesome but also slightly annoying when she's in the mood of involving herself with trying to help me ( especially when I don't need it). I actually prefer the company of my INFJ 9 friend a little more because she's personable like my 2 friend but she's less invasive and more chilled out.

Your INFJ/2 friend definitely sounds like me in real life. I suppose with her being type 2 may make her become an IEI-Fe rather than the typical IEI-Ni which is what, I feel, a lot of INFJs are more often times than not. The IEI-Ni types are the more logical, chilled out types, like you said, while the IEI-Fe types are more emotional and gotta-save-everybody-right-now kind of folks. I think, when I was very depressed at a younger age, I definitely felt like I was a type 4 but I think that was because I was in a very bad place at the time. Not that I think type 4s are depressing, but their over-dramatics was exactly the way I acted when I felt horrible back then.

Now that I think about it, INFJs like the blab a lot when they should be the introverts, wtf. But I do want to thank you for your answer to my question, it gives me something to think about! I think the most important life lesson for me, and for other type 2s as well, is to learn to love themselves first before they go around trying to save everybody else. Its just too exhausting to keep going on like that, you know?

- - - Updated - - -

Agreed, some combinations are less likely than others but not altogether impossible. For example, it's probably extremely rare to find an ENTP type 2 or 4( as a primary core type)

The only ENTP type 4 I know of is the French poet Arthur Rimbaud, ever heard of him?

 

[Cloudpatrol]

I think I had your result on a recent enneagram test, otherwise I am either type 2, type 4, type 6, or on a rare basis, a type 9. I am somewhat in shock at how two people can share the same MBTI type but can behave quite differently based on their enneagrams and their wings. I do hope I can kind a kindred spirit who has the same types as I do- I am finding it difficult to balance my ability to care so deeply about other people and finding the self respect to stand up for myself when others take it too far.

I am rambling, so I apologize, carry on.

I am 2 also. I feel like you ARE a kindred spirit based on many of your posts (Did you read Anne of Green Gables as a girl? I adore her still!).

I can relate to the dichotomy of your struggle. The thing I have found most helpful is to: examine my intent and set boundaries that account for the needs of myself and the other party.

If I am deeply touched and want to transform that into an action, I ask myself: what are my motives? Is it to feel better about myself, relieve suffering, impress others, connect, produce warm feelz, improve myself, etcetera?

Then I ask if it’s even appropriate for me to extend myself. Am I qualified? Are my interest’s self-serving? Will the person appreciate my efforts or is reciprocation even required? Can I afford it (in all sense of cost)?

If I care/act and then find that doing so begins to drain my energy or emotional resources I set limits. Either pulling back, communicating with the other party in a direct way or questioning > adjusting my view. If I am over-extending myself I ask: in what ways do I need to increase my own esteem and sense of self so that I am not looking to others or external sources for such?

I had a counsellor tell me I was arrogant and I almost fell off my chair; knowing my 'people' don't perceive me that way.

However, he explained that there is hubris involved in thinking we have the personal power to solve the problems of the world or people around us. I do see that. It doesn’t mean to stop caring or helping. It only means to take care of ourselves first so we CAN help effectively. And, not to shoulder burdens that don’t belong to us.

A loving and giving spirit is beautiful when exercised with modesty of our limitations

 

[ZNP-TBA]

Your INFJ/2 friend definitely sounds like me in real life. I suppose with her being type 2 may make her become an IEI-Fe rather than the typical IEI-Ni which is what, I feel, a lot of INFJs are more often times than not. The IEI-Ni types are the more logical, chilled out types, like you said, while the IEI-Fe types are more emotional and gotta-save-everybody-right-now kind of folks. I think, when I was very depressed at a younger age, I definitely felt like I was a type 4 but I think that was because I was in a very bad place at the time. Not that I think type 4s are depressing, but their over-dramatics was exactly the way I acted when I felt horrible back then.

Now that I think about it, INFJs like the blab a lot when they should be the introverts, wtf. But I do want to thank you for your answer to my question, it gives me something to think about! I think the most important life lesson for me, and for other type 2s as well, is to learn to love themselves first before they go around trying to save everybody else. Its just too exhausting to keep going on like that, you know?

- - - Updated - - -



The only ENTP type 4 I know of is the French poet Arthur Rimbaud, ever heard of him?

I'm pretty new to the enneagram theories but I tend to catch on quick once exposed and interested. So the way I'm learning to understand Enneagram best is by looking at the core fears of each type. Because once you strip away all the minutiae all that's left is the bare naked root fear of each type. For a two its " Of being unwanted, unworthy of being loved" where as for a 4 it's "That they have no identity or personal significance." It's kind of related, I kind of look at a 4 and 2 as inside out versions of one another. 2s want to others to love them while 4s don't want to hate themselves.

Ironically, your 'growth' path is moving towards 4, not away from it, at least according to conventional Enneagram theory. In other words when you are functioning in a healthy state you may be very relatable to a healthy 4 because you have a strong sense of self while simultaneously seeking to lend your support to others. It's basically not a zero-sum game whereas helping others 'requires' losing something from yourself. Giving means growing so long as you have strong grounding in your own identity and value.

Never heard of the poet (I'm not really a poetry kind of guy) but an ENTP 4 would be interesting indeed.

 

[Norrsken]

I am 2 also. I feel like you ARE a kindred spirit based on many of your posts (Did you read Anne of Green Gables as a girl? I adore her still!).

I can relate to the dichotomy of your struggle. The thing I have found most helpful is to: examine my intent and set boundaries that account for the needs of myself and the other party.

If I am deeply touched and want to transform that into an action, I ask myself: what are my motives? Is it to feel better about myself, relieve suffering, impress others, connect, produce warm feelz, improve myself, etcetera?

Then I ask if it’s even appropriate for me to extend myself. Am I qualified? Are my interest’s self-serving? Will the person appreciate my efforts or is reciprocation even required? Can I afford it (in all sense of cost)?

If I care/act and then find that doing so begins to drain my energy or emotional resources I set limits. Either pulling back, communicating with the other party in a direct way or questioning > adjusting my view. If I am over-extending myself I ask: in what ways do I need to increase my own esteem and sense of self so that I am not looking to others or external sources for such?

I had a counsellor tell me I was arrogant and I almost fell off my chair; knowing my 'people' don't perceive me that way.

However, he explained that there is hubris involved in thinking we have the personal power to solve the problems of the world or people around us. I do see that. It doesn’t mean to stop caring or helping. It only means to take care of ourselves first so we CAN help effectively. And, not to shoulder burdens that don’t belong to us.

A loving and giving spirit is beautiful when exercised with modesty of our limitations

All of this. <3 This is amazing, well said! I am absolutely happy to have read a book about this. Believe me, I used to be horrible when it came to servings others first over myself, but I am about 97% over it, and the other 3% are those very rare occasions where I volunteer to help others even when it is not needed, such as at work. But otherwise, liberating myself in this manner has been a wonderful journey for me thus far, so I am happy that you are also on the same path in that respect.

You are right. We are very beautiful people, on a soul level, but we need to first love ourselves before we can help other people.

 

[Cloudpatrol]

[MENTION=25403]ZombieNinjaPirate[/MENTION]

I personally find her awesome but also slightly annoying when she's in the mood of involving herself with trying to help me ( especially when I don't need it). I actually prefer the company of my INFJ 9 friend a little more because she's personable like my 2 friend but she's less invasive and more chilled out.

This is a great observation for 2's. It's taken time for me to realize that other's often don't want (or NEED) help and not to say all the things that occur to me in that regard but to listen more. That the world isn't just something to be solved but also a PLAYground You? @forsaken

 

[Norrsken]

[MENTION=25403]ZombieNinjaPirate[/MENTION]

I personally find her awesome but also slightly annoying when she's in the mood of involving herself with trying to help me ( especially when I don't need it). I actually prefer the company of my INFJ 9 friend a little more because she's personable like my 2 friend but she's less invasive and more chilled out.

This is a great observation for 2's. It's taken time for me to realize that other's often don't want (or NEED) help and not to say all the things that occur to me in that regard but to listen more. That the world isn't just something to be solved but also a PLAYground You? @forsaken

Absolutely. Once I learned that I am not a superhero for everybody around me, I am able to relax more in life and enjoy the ride instead of controlling everything.

 

[Norrsken]

I'm pretty new to the enneagram theories but I tend to catch on quick once exposed and interested. So the way I'm learning to understand Enneagram best is by looking at the core fears of each type. Because once you strip away all the minutiae all that's left is the bare naked root fear of each type. For a two its " Of being unwanted, unworthy of being loved" where as for a 4 it's "That they have no identity or personal significance." It's kind of related, I kind of look at a 4 and 2 as inside out versions of one another. 2s want to others to love them while 4s don't want to hate themselves.

Ironically, your 'growth' path is moving towards 4, not away from it, at least according to conventional Enneagram theory. In other words when you are functioning in a healthy state you may be very relatable to a healthy 4 because you have a strong sense of self while simultaneously seeking to lend your support to others. It's basically not a zero-sum game whereas helping others 'requires' losing something from yourself. Giving means growing so long as you have strong grounding in your own identity and value.

Never heard of the poet (I'm not really a poetry kind of guy) but an ENTP 4 would be interesting indeed.

What you say resonates with me and I think perhaps it is time to keep myself grounded even during moments of weakness. I am going to learn how to say "no" more often without feeling guilty, which is incredibly difficult for me. I usually resort to lying or making up excuses as to why I can't do something for somebody. I just want to be able to say it and not have to put on airs while doing it.

 

[ZNP-TBA]

What you say resonates with me and I think perhaps it is time to keep myself grounded even during moments of weakness. I am going to learn how to say "no" more often without feeling guilty, which is incredibly difficult for me. I usually resort to lying or making up excuses as to why I can't do something for somebody. I just want to be able to say it and not have to put on airs while doing it.

It's probably the case that all your consideration is disproportionately weighed in favor of the person when compared to considering yourself. A healthy 2 ( that integrates towards 4) equalizes their own personal value with the interpersonal value with others. Don't give away so much of yourself till your sense of self gradually dissipates into nothingness. It's ok to ask "how the hell does this benefit me?"