Inferior Te?

[Xena]

Your childhood behavioral patterns are distinct to the ISFP type of child, but you've apparently adapted and acquired other cognitive resources. I described other ISFP traits to you but you didn't identify with them. I would say that if there's a loop going on, then it is an Fi-Ni loop. Although you don't identify with Ni, JCF descriptions only concern dominants, not auxiliaries, tertiaries, or inferiors. The INFJ type, because of Ti-tertiary, has a rather nerdy aspect to the personality and even appearance (glasses, weak chin). The ISFP type, because of the Ni-tertiary, is not so much mysterious as "unique." An INFJ type is mysterious and unique. The Ni-tertiary only brings some Ni traits into the personality, a hippie-like, anti-authoritarian even slightly antisocial bent which is assisted by the Te-inferior. The latter resists authority with a passion, and comes out more clearly as the personality becomes more unhealthy.

I was reading about falsification of type, and I do believe that's what has happened because of my sensitivity. If I am an ISFP, I've developed Ti because it would be easier to do that than Te, which would oppose my dominant function.

And my build is definitely not weak chin/nerdy. I have a presentation that can be a little aggressive. I've had one guy at the auto parts store actually ask me if I was a cop. And playing sports in middle school, I would slap the ball out of the other girl's hands, and was actually called an ogre because I was so aggressively competitive. My ex says I have a "strut"...which usually comes out when I'm feeling more self-assured.

I hate conformity for tradition sake, and I don't like group-think, or doing things just to fit in. In fact, I didn't have a Twitter account for the longest time because it seemed like the "thing" to do, and I thought it sounded like a stupid name.

I rooted for the Cubs, the rest of my family was rooting for the Indians since I'm from Ohio. But I wanted the Cubs to win since they had went so long without winning.... I tend to always root for the underdog.

I'm secretly anti-authoritarian. My boss will send an email out for everyone to do something a certain way, but his ideas were stupid and not realistic. Besides, I like coming up with the way I think is best, and as a professional, I believe I should be granted that kind of intellectual freedom.

 

[Xena]

I haven't dismissed ISTP completely.... because I do read descriptions of Ti and it sounds a lot like me in many ways. The only way it doesn't is the emotional detachment part. I'm unable to detach from my emotions. I can barely work if I'm upset/sad/angry, etc.

My son is just like me....it's scary really. And I send him love notes when he goes to school, or surprise him with little ways to show him how much I love him. I'm definitely not afraid to show my love, but when I talk about it, or fully face the amount of love I feel for him, it's like staring at the sun....so bright that it'll blind you.

If my mom starts to tell me how much she loves me, I break down because I love her so much, that the amount of love I feel overwhelms me.

My neighbor, who I'm pretty sure was an ISTP, could also at times be emotional, but I could see a large difference in terms of how many f*** he gave compared to me. I give way too many.

 

[Xena]

I would say that if there's a loop going on, then it is an Fi-Ni loop.

When I read about the loops, the Fi-Ni tends to sound the most like me. I dwell on my feelings, usually forecasting a dubious/negative future. I feel unable to move forward and stay positive. I feel a loss of self-confidence and am unable to get into action to affect change.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Have you read Jung or Van Der Hoop's descriptions yet?

 

[Xena]

I checked out a book from the library on Jung and from the stuff I read it was so abstract that I wasn't able to get very far without losing interest.

i havent ever heard of Van Der Hoop though....

 

[Xena]

I read the ones at cognitiveprocesses.com and was better able to wrap my head around it:
Cognitive-Functions/Introverted-Feeling
and
Cognitive-Functions/Introverted-Thinking

I think of these two descriptions, I relate most to Fi. I will often get a gut reaction to something if it's bad, and I can't explain why, but i know something is bad. Like when I went into contract on a house and I felt so horrible...I knew I had to get out of the contract. Once I did I felt so much better. And when I go on dates, I get a gut feeling when I know that a person isn't right for me. I live by the code of being a good person, and try to make my decisions to be compatible with that view I have of myself.

I do relate to always analyzing things in the Ti description. And whatever I hear or read tends to go through a "sense" filter... if it doesn't make sense, or seems wrong in some way, I either ask clarifying questions or dismiss it altogether. It's like a true/false indicator. My cousin who is not very smart once told me she thinks Asians wear glasses because they have slanted eyes. That was about the most absurd thing I've heard. Although my kids are half-Asian, I didn't react or let on that I thought she was seriously wrong and potentially offensive.
i read the ISTP description from Bestfittype.com and it sounded most like me of the ISTP/ISFP descriptions.
ISTP best fit type description

 

[Mal12345]

I was reading about falsification of type, and I do believe that's what has happened because of my sensitivity. If I am an ISFP, I've developed Ti because it would be easier to do that than Te, which would oppose my dominant function.

And my build is definitely not weak chin/nerdy. I have a presentation that can be a little aggressive. I've had one guy at the auto parts store actually ask me if I was a cop. And playing sports in middle school, I would slap the ball out of the other girl's hands, and was actually called an ogre because I was so aggressively competitive. My ex says I have a "strut"...which usually comes out when I'm feeling more self-assured.

I hate conformity for tradition sake, and I don't like group-think, or doing things just to fit in. In fact, I didn't have a Twitter account for the longest time because it seemed like the "thing" to do, and I thought it sounded like a stupid name.

I rooted for the Cubs, the rest of my family was rooting for the Indians since I'm from Ohio. But I wanted the Cubs to win since they had went so long without winning.... I tend to always root for the underdog.

I'm secretly anti-authoritarian. My boss will send an email out for everyone to do something a certain way, but his ideas were stupid and not realistic. Besides, I like coming up with the way I think is best, and as a professional, I believe I should be granted that kind of intellectual freedom.

The semi-nerdy look is ISFJ/INFJ. In the long run it's back to ISFP as your type. But I keep forgetting to ask you if you like word play, particularly spoonerisms.

 

[Xena]

The semi-nerdy look is ISFJ/INFJ. In the long run it's back to ISFP as your type. But I keep forgetting to ask you if you like word play, particularly spoonerisms.

I will sometimes do a word play. On the specimen labels, the name is displayed as "last name, first name", and I saw a patient who if you read the first name first....then last name, and put them together, it actually spelled the name of a bacteria....

But generally, other than that, I don't do word humor or spoonerisms. I typically like absurd humor. Usually it's more sophisticated, but when I was getting my wisdom teeth out I was under a lot of laughing gas..... and the dentist went out of the room for a few minutes. The nurse said he was going to talk with his friend that just came in to visit for a few minutes while the shots were taking more effect. And she said that the friend was a hockey player for the NHL team where I lived.

I thought that was HILARIOUS that a dentist was friends with a hockey player....

I like those embarrassing text messages from "texts from last night". Sometimes a little crass. Family guy, Blades of Glory, National Lampoon's Family Vacation...and sometimes Monty Python are all amusing.

What I find interesting is that my 12 yr old son, who I suspect is my same mbti and E type, down to even being a sensitive person that values thinking, often will be right in sync with me when finding something humorous.

My 9 yr old daughter is an ESFJ and our world-views and humor are quite different.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Interesting thread.

I have a few ideas. For starters:

You talked about how you are when you are stressed (indulging in vices and retreating into your inner world).

Have you ever read up on Naomi Quenk? She wrote a book called "Was that really me?" She wrote for the official MBTI folks for many years. Using their data as a starting point (and they do not officially endorse cognitive functions theory), she set forth typing by the inferior when in the grip.

INXJs tend to indulge in Se activities when stressed--food, drugs, drink, sex, shopping, etc. IXFPs get up in their Te, becoming hyper critical of others, the worst caricature of a ESTJ. IXTPs get Fe, emoting and highly influenced by their environment. And so forth

Large excerpts of her book can be found on PerC by searching for "Form of the inferior function" followed by the type.

I found this to be the best way for me to determine my type (I had been stuck on INFJ, but it really didn’t fit for various reasons).

Not everyone likes this method, as it hits at our most sensitive points, but I found it persuasive and very useful.

What you described doesn’t sound very ISFP (I am married to one) or IXTP (I have a INTP son).

But I highly recommend reading up on the functions as they appear in the inferior.

 

[Xena]

Interesting thread.

I have a few ideas. For starters:

You talked about how you are when you are stressed (indulging in vices and retreating into your inner world).

Have you ever read up on Naomi Quenk? She wrote a book called "Was that really me?" She wrote for the official MBTI folks for many years. Using their data as a starting point (and they do not officially endorse cognitive functions theory), she set forth typing by the inferior when in the grip.

INXJs tend to indulge in Se activities when stressed--food, drugs, drink, sex, shopping, etc. IXFPs get up in their Te, becoming hyper critical of others, the worst caricature of a ESTJ. IXTPs get Fe, emoting and highly influenced by their environment. And so forth

Large excerpts of her book can be found on PerC by searching for "Form of the inferior function" followed by the type.

I found this to be the best way for me to determine my type (I had been stuck on INFJ, but it really didn’t fit for various reasons).

Not everyone likes this method, as it hits at our most sensitive points, but I found it persuasive and very useful.

What you described doesn’t sound very ISFP (I am married to one) or IXTP (I have a INTP son).

But I highly recommend reading up on the functions as they appear in the inferior.

Thanks for the advice...

I actually own that book
I use my Se in mostly an unhealthy way because I am not very active...so i do indulge in pleasurable things. But the truth is I always have a tendency to overdo it because I can be hedonistic to a large degree. I've always had a huge appetite for enjoyable, sensual things...

My first defense when stressed is to withdraw...seek shelter in comfort.
If pushed to my absolute breaking point, I will say cutting remarks that I've held back for too long. But it takes so much to get me to that point. I've been punched in the stomach as a kid an just stood there and took it. But someone one time threw rocks at my brother after I told them to stop and I went after him like a bull, unleashing all the karate moves I had read about in my library books, or saw in Kung Fu movies.
I have seen me criticize people for being critical. Ironically, my ex who's a 4w5 Sx/so was quite opinionated about things, and her criticality made me irritated... and I became upset at how critical she was.
I also tend to mostly internalize my derisive comments and say them to myself. Calling others stupid, but usually not to their face if I don't feel safe enough to face conflict.
Usually, I think my Te criticality comes out when I'm driving. Seems like everyone is stupid, doesn't know how to drive, the people that designed the roads are stupid, etc.
If I'm feeling pressured for time, I'll try to give more authoritative commands to speed things along....
At my worst, I usually just end up not caring about people's feelings, I retreat to avoid the situation in order to protect myself from further pain/stress, even if that means losing connection.

i don't emote much at all except anger and sadness when I'm stressed to the max. And when I do emote, there is so much of a filter from how I actually feel to the way it's expressed in the outer world. I could be extremely rageful, and people would never realize just how mad I am... it's the same with any emotion though. If I try to outwardly play up my emotion just so I can express it, it seems fake. Sitting in those extreme emotions for too long is exhausting. Being with an Infp 4 Sx has emotionally exhausted me these past 3 years. She likes expression of emotion. I'm usually feeling like she needs to chill out and calm down. But that may be a lot more E type related than just MBTI function differences.

i have noticed the more someone becomes dramatic and irrational with emotion, the more I become the opposite, and thinking the person is crazy. This is true for most emotions that seem exaggerated/disproportionate to the circumstance.

 

[Mal12345]

Thanks for the advice...

I actually own that book
I use my Se in mostly an unhealthy way because I am not very active...so i do indulge in pleasurable things. But the truth is I always have a tendency to overdo it because I can be hedonistic to a large degree. I've always had a huge appetite for enjoyable, sensual things...

My first defense when stressed is to withdraw...seek shelter in comfort.
If pushed to my absolute breaking point, I will say cutting remarks that I've held back for too long. But it takes so much to get me to that point. I've been punched in the stomach as a kid an just stood there and took it. But someone one time threw rocks at my brother after I told them to stop and I went after him like a bull, unleashing all the karate moves I had read about in my library books, or saw in Kung Fu movies.

How did that work for you?

 

[Xena]

How did that work for you?

You mean the kung fu? Pretty well actually. That kid never bothered my brother again.
I did end up taking Aikido for a few weeks when I was around 10, but unfortunately all I can remember mostly is how to say 1-10 in Japanese.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Thanks for the advice...

I actually own that book
I use my Se in mostly an unhealthy way because I am not very active...so i do indulge in pleasurable things. But the truth is I always have a tendency to overdo it because I can be hedonistic to a large degree. I've always had a huge appetite for enjoyable, sensual things...

My first defense when stressed is to withdraw...seek shelter in comfort.
If pushed to my absolute breaking point, I will say cutting remarks that I've held back for too long. But it takes so much to get me to that point. I've been punched in the stomach as a kid an just stood there and took it. But someone one time threw rocks at my brother after I told them to stop and I went after him like a bull, unleashing all the karate moves I had read about in my library books, or saw in Kung Fu movies.
I have seen me criticize people for being critical. Ironically, my ex who's a 4w5 Sx/so was quite opinionated about things, and her criticality made me irritated... and I became upset at how critical she was.
I also tend to mostly internalize my derisive comments and say them to myself. Calling others stupid, but usually not to their face if I don't feel safe enough to face conflict.
Usually, I think my Te criticality comes out when I'm driving. Seems like everyone is stupid, doesn't know how to drive, the people that designed the roads are stupid, etc.
If I'm feeling pressured for time, I'll try to give more authoritative commands to speed things along....
At my worst, I usually just end up not caring about people's feelings, I retreat to avoid the situation in order to protect myself from further pain/stress, even if that means losing connection.

i don't emote much at all except anger and sadness when I'm stressed to the max. And when I do emote, there is so much of a filter from how I actually feel to the way it's expressed in the outer world. I could be extremely rageful, and people would never realize just how mad I am... it's the same with any emotion though. If I try to outwardly play up my emotion just so I can express it, it seems fake. Sitting in those extreme emotions for too long is exhausting. Being with an Infp 4 Sx has emotionally exhausted me these past 3 years. She likes expression of emotion. I'm usually feeling like she needs to chill out and calm down. But that may be a lot more E type related than just MBTI function differences.

i have noticed the more someone becomes dramatic and irrational with emotion, the more I become the opposite, and thinking the person is crazy. This is true for most emotions that seem exaggerated/disproportionate to the circumstance.

Well, excellent.

I do wonder if you are not tert Se rather than inferior Se based upon what you wrote. Se would be your path out of stress rather than you acting out in the grip.

What do you think? Once I realized that I use Se for relief, it was helpful to understand myself better. And it really fit my life better.

e9 is often very slow to push back against others, but breaks like a dam when breached.

 

[Xena]

Se tertiary seems to make sense because I'm not active, using Se for mostly comfort... but I don't have Fe or Te as my main function. I'm so passive about the world. I experience it and interact with it more than trying to judge it. I think I use Se, just not in a healthy way. Sometimes I wonder if I'm not fooling myself and over-exaggerating my skill with it. But then things like this morning happen, and I'm reminded I'm actually pretty good without too much effort. I opened up my coffee cabinet first thing this morning and the package of filters fell out, and I immediately reacted and caught them without effort. And I observe body language all the time to understand how someone may be feeling or clues about what they're thinking. I even learned to swim by watching the movie Benji...where they showed his paws doing a doggie paddle underwater. I taught myself to dive because I could see in my mind how I needed to position myself so that I could enter the water, and I was able to make my body conform to the position I envisioned.
I was more outgoing when I was younger, dancing in public, being the first to volunteer to read my stories in front of class.... kind of a clown. But I had a very strong introspective process since I can remember. I thought when I was really young that I had a telepathic connection with animals, and I saw myself as their champion. I cared about impressing people the most, so as I got older, I just channeled that into academics...the inner clown was silenced and I became withdrawn and serious on the outside. I have a video I posted on FB in a typing group and they told me to see if INTJ resonated. I scored INTJ on an MBTI test administered in college when I was 23. But my brother is an INTJ....pretty huge differences between us.
I enjoyed playing around with identities and recreating adventures... watching Rambo and Indiana Jones and then going out to try to recreate what I saw...I was a chameleon and could adapt to whatever surrounding I was put in for the most part.

On the strengthsfinder assessment, adaptability was my number one strength. But the problem with adaptation is sometimes it makes you lose touch with what is unique and authentic to you.

At least that's what it feels like.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

Hmm.....

How was your childhood?

 

[Xena]

Well, I used to play it off like it wasn't that bad...didn't really think about it much. But the ex who's an Infp would often want to analyze my childhood thanks to that Si....
My earliest memory is of my bio-dad forcing me to eat cigarettes. He dropped them in my crib and I remember enjoying seeing what would happen when I crumbled them in my fingers. He sat me on the counter in front of my mom and grandma and said "you knew what you did was wrong, didn't you?" And I remember looking at my mom and thinking "why are you letting him do this to me, why aren't you stopping him?" I think I must have been around 2-3 years old.
My parents weren't really together but my mom lived with him and his parents until I was 4. I saw my grandma with blood on her scarf one time after walking in on her and grandpa fighting. I saw my grandma crawl into the back of a police car and I thought they were going to take her away....I remember being so distraught over that.
My mom moved out when I was 4 and we lived in welfare housing where we had a basement level apartment. We were broken into a few times and one time I remember seeing a man's face looking down into my window.
She married another guy who was crazy and a drug-addict. He'd spank me with a belt if I didn't keep my brother'a room clean. One time he swatted me because I called the teacher a witch (only said this to a classmate who then told the teacher) and she told him I called her a bitch....that's what all the other kids in the class accused me of. The only reason I even called her a witch in the first place was because I heard another kid say it on the playground.
So it was a pretty scary childhood. I was gender atypical and overweight, so the bullying really started when I was around 11... it was relentless and I remember thinking that it was a good day if I could just get through a whole day without anyone harassing me.
Home life got much better when my mom met my current step-dad when I was 11. We had more money so we didn't have to worry about things financially...and my mom was happy with him. He was a bachelor coming into a family with 3 kids, so I felt like he crossed the line discipline wise a few times with my brothers and I had to set him straight. I was also very protective of my mother, so it was nice not to have to worry, I knew she was very loved.

In high school the bullying got worse, even though I conformed as much as I could to hide my gender atypical side. I didn't have any friends and it was absolute hell. I figured out as a freshman early on that I could graduate early if I had enough credits....and I vowed to do everything I could to minimize the time I spent there. I spent my junior year half the time in trade school for a college prep computer program, and the last month got to go to Russia as part of an exchange program I was selected for. I graduated when I got back at the age of 17, and life was much better after HS.

 

[chubber]

ISTJ

sensitive feelings.

 

[Xena]

I forgot to mention that my grandma died when I was 6 from stomach cancer, and I saw her struggle and slowly get worse and worse. I loved her so much, and she did me too. She used to have me think she was my mother. My mom had me when she was just 16, so my grandma was pretty young.
I remember cutting my bangs one time and being so afraid to see her in the hospital because I didn't want her to be disappointed or angry with me. So I tried to cover it up with a hat, lol. But she eventually found out.

When she died, my mom got the phone call...and it was one of the few times in my life I saw my mom cry. For some reason I didn't cry....
But I didn't go to her funeral. It was 6 days before Christmas when it happened, so I remember opening up the presents she got me and the tags with my name written in shaky lettering....it hurt to know that even with being close to death she loved me so much to be able to do that for me.

She got me a blanket that I loved because it was like the one she had that I loved to touch because it was so soft. And a clock radio. I kept that radio until I was 19 and listened to it every night to fall asleep.
Her dying wish was for me not to forget her and I never have.
I couldn't walk into a cemetary until I was in my late teens.

 

[SearchingforPeace]

I am sorry for your childhood. You deserved far better.

How aware are you of the emotions of others? Would you say you can tell how others are feeling easily?

 

[Xena]

I don't have Si though... I don't care to keep traditions, or anything that Si does as a strength. You couldn't even see the floor of my room, and one point my mom found maggots in there since I used to sneak food back to my room.
I enjoyed moving when I was a kid since I got to explore the new apartments... and my 1st step-dad was an ESTP and sometimes we would just take off for a road-trip and leave in the middle of the night. It was exciting... I loved the adventures we had with him. Not all memories I had were bad.