[MBTI General] I'm just saying...

[Ene]

sounds like you do doorslam, but dont want to admit it

I slam concrete blocks. Does that count? I break them with my hands then use them for stepping stones. Seriously, I posted that because I read so much about "door slamming" and I thought...."Who on earth does all this door slamming? I mean couldn't it get expensive after awhile, what with all of the window panes cracking and so forth? Why would anybody want to destroy property due to an emotional moment?"

See, years ago, I did throw a cup of coffee and broke it, because I was so overwhelmed and stressed with financial woes and I lived with an ISTJ who constantly fretted over said woes. So one day I threw a cup of coffee at him because I just wanted to make the noise stop for a little while, but then I was out a perfectly good mug and had to scrub all of that coffee off my white wall....I thought, "How stupid of me" and I began to think of emotions like a horse. You can either put a bridle in the horse's mouth and train it to go in the direction you want it to go or you can let the horse run wild, buck you off, trample you and drag you through the mud. Emotions are to serve us, not the other way around. They are our tools, our gifts, not our masters. So, no door slamming for me [I did that once shortly before I threw the coffee mug], no more throwing things for me. We are endowed with a wisdom mind and an emotional mind. A wisdom mind can still operate with compassion and empathy, BUT it doesn't have to wallow in self-pity and it has the capacity to balance emotion with logic. It makes for a happier person, at least I think so. So, I'm just saying, being an INFJ doesn't mean you slam doors. I think that no matter what type we are, we must remember that there is both a healthy and an unhealthy state of being for any type and we should be careful not to pigeon-hole and stereo-type based on what we think. I love your saying by the way, "Where wisdom reigns, htere is no conflict between thinking and feeling." Jung. I totally agree and I guess that's what I 'm really saying. INFJ does not always equal doorslams. It can, but it doesn't have to.

Well, enough rambling from me. Let's hear what someone else has to say!

 

[EJCC]

EJCC

There's also a problem some times when one lists their concerns and the other simply does not care at all and they're entirely unapologetic about it. They don't know how to reciprocate at all and it seems like they just see you as some kind of dog to kick around for their amusement.

When this happens too much one tends to become gun shy about it and also maybe learns to detect when some relationships are going one sided. It's not a friendship or relationship when you're trying to deal with something and the other party just spits on you like you were nothing to them to begin with.

In which case, you either start a serious/honest debate with them to see if they'll change their ways with some nudging, or you push them out of your life without verbally bitchslapping them*. Right?

I guess I just don't understand where the doorslamming instinct comes from, when it's so clearly counterproductive and hurtful. It seems like the process goes from being too accommodating to being too hurtful/harsh and spiteful, and I don't know why you wouldn't take the middle ground to avoid doorslamming altogether -- especially when FJs are so Fe-savvy and would likely know exactly where that middle ground lies, instinctively.

(This isn't to say that I'm really great about handling those situations, either, FYI. I just want to know what the rationale is for that pattern of behavior -- because there must be one, if it's so damn common with FJs.)

*e.g. just not contacting them anymore, treating them like a distant friend instead of a close one, and maybe sending them an email or something saying "I think we shouldn't be such close friends anymore, because of this behavior, that I had very serious and blunt and unsubtle conversations with you about before, meaning: it should come as no surprise to you that this was coming/inevitable, and that this is for the best, for both of us."

Ah.
I think that's messed up. I would never do that. I'd rather drive someone away by confrontation. And if someone did that to me I'd be highly upset.

Yeah, I've had more than one FJ do that to me: an ENFJ (very recently, who called me a terrible friend and "not a socially functioning human being"), and a probable INFJ (the summer before my freshman year of high school). It really, really sucked, both times. They really know where to zero in on you, to make it hurt as badly as possible. Almost sadistic.

 

[sprinkles]

[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION]

Well to me doorslamming is a little different than hitting the tactical nuke button. Though some times both will happen.

Doorslamming can be a sudden break but it's not always directly spiteful - it's just when I've had completely enough and being any kind of diplomatic is just an invitation for them to play on sympathies and repeat the process over again, intentional or not.

The nuke is when you blow up their shit and then shut the door.

 

[The Iron Giant]

I'm with [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] and [MENTION=5159]Lexicon[/MENTION]. I understood the doorslam to be sudden and unexpected to the other party. I think in particular enneagram type nines may be prone to this, particularly at lower levels. The conflict avoidance thing seems to push them to build up pressure inside, largely hidden from the other party. When it is expressed, it's dramatically understated. When the nine finally hits the boiling point, it's an explosion and a permanent break. When you're close to a nine, it's very important to be able to recognize when they're holding back so you can encourage them to vent that steam that's building up. They're so afraid of their own anger.

 

[EJCC]

Doorslamming can be a sudden break but it's not always directly spiteful - it's just when I've had completely enough and being any kind of diplomatic is just an invitation for them to play on sympathies and repeat the process over again, intentional or not.

I don't know how else to ask this, but: Why would you let them play on your sympathies? Wouldn't it be possible for you to be forceful without giving in to them? To be diplomatic without being a doormat?

The nuke is when you blow up their shit and then shut the door.

^ This is at the heart of it, and this is what I just don't get. Like I asked in my previous post: Why? What's the point?

I'm with [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] and [MENTION=5159]Lexicon[/MENTION]. I understood the doorslam to be sudden and unexpected to the other party. I think in particular enneagram type nines may be prone to this, particularly at lower levels. The conflict avoidance thing seems to push them to build up pressure inside, largely hidden from the other party. When it is expressed, it's dramatically understated. When the nine finally hits the boiling point, it's an explosion and a permanent break. When you're close to a nine, it's very important to be able to recognize when they're holding back so you can encourage them to vent that steam that's building up. They're so afraid of their own anger.

Is this something that more self-aware Nines can learn to work through? i.e. by being more assertive, in order to avoid having to doorslam anyone?

 

[The Iron Giant]

Is this something that more self-aware Nines can learn to work through? i.e. by being more assertive, in order to avoid having to doorslam anyone?

So far, so good. Yes, I think so. Conflict may never feel good for a nine, though. I think over time, being aware that this defense mechanism (the stockpiling of angry feelings) will likely only bring about exactly that which they fear (because nines fear separation) can make them more comfortable with holding their nose and diving into conflict when necessary.

That whole dynamic though, where the defense mechanism developed to cover for a core fear makes that fear a reality, is common to all types.

 

[sprinkles]

I don't know how else to ask this, but: Why would you let them play on your sympathies? Wouldn't it be possible for you to be forceful without giving in to them? To be diplomatic without being a doormat?

Because I'm actually really forgiving and kind of need a defense mechanism to defend myself. If I actually care about the person but they aren't reciprocating, I end up feeling like the jerk.

I'll start having doubts and I might be getting ready to tell them that I don't want things to continue this way but 9 times out of 10 it turns into an apology from my end because I don't want to hurt their feelings.

It's a fault I suppose.

^ This is at the heart of it, and this is what I just don't get. Like I asked in my previous post: Why? What's the point?

It's a defense mechanism. It's almost like in one of those movie scenes when somebody needs to go away for their own good or a higher purpose but they are so attached the only way to break it is to hurt their feelings so they will give it up.

 

[hazelsees]

I don't know if everyone uses this definition, but I had thought that what makes doorslamming different from any other, similar outburst, is that it is perceived, by the person being doorslammed, as coming completely from out of nowhere. Response: equal parts emotional pain and "What the hell?!"

The types who doorslam the worst are the ones who let their resentment build up for a very long time, for the sake of maintaining harmony, and then, when the inevitable straw breaks their back, air all of their grievances at once, and don't give the other person a chance to try to make peace, or even resolve whatever problems pissed off the doorslammer in the first place. FJs are WAY more likely to do that, than any other type, because they're usually so conflict-avoidant that they won't want to bring up those problem topics unless they're angry enough to think that doorslamming is the best solution. Other types -- especially Thinkers, I would argue -- would not be afraid to list their concerns early on, because they're generally not as afraid of conflict, and therefore they wouldn't get the chance to build up enough resentment to lead to a doorslam, NEARLY as often as an FJ would.

(Side note: I get no satisfaction from doorslamming because I dislike burning bridges; I'd rather let the bridge fall into disrepair, and then fix it up later if I feel like it's worthwhile.)

It's rare that I've "doorslammed" but after someone has hurt/annoyed/irriated me so many times, something they say/do does break me--and it's immediate. They're done. They no longer exist to me. BUT, it's not only that I want to maintain harmony or hate confrontation (I do, but...), it's that I tend to make excuses for people's bad behavior (they're going through a hard time, they are having another bad day, their upbringing was unloving and harsh, their dog died, I just need to love them more/be kinder to, etc.). Then something happens--that final straw--and I'm done. Complete doorslam isn't always possible when that other person HAS to be in your life for some reason or another.
I have one example when I did go back and apologize and try to explain why I "shut the door" on them. After I came to terms with my share of the wrongness in the situation. Nevermind--I'm still embarrassed to give details...
But, like I said earlier, it's rare that I shut people out.

 

[Society]

I think that no matter what type we are, we must remember that there is both a healthy and an unhealthy state of being for any type and we should be careful not to pigeon-hole and stereo-type based on what we think. I love your saying by the way, "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling." Jung.

bingo! that's pretty much it - the largest assortments destructive/unhealthy type tendencies can be traced to the repression mechanisms (feelings denying thoughts or vise verse, abstracts denying details or vise verse).

specifically for the doorslam:

most often F repressing T, the most commonly repeating pattern is that through various misconduct, the one under the doorslam boot becomes living evidence that the doorslammer can no longer reasonably claim (Ti) to be who their self-image would like to think of themselves as (Fe).

the doorslam is the ultimate act of denial manifested in the external world:

but just like with any unhealthy behavior, it can be outgrown. INFJs healthy enough to overcome this repression internally, don't need to do it externally.

p.s
regarding the Jung quote - thank you for my new signature

 

[greenfairy]

I guess I just don't understand where the doorslamming instinct comes from, when it's so clearly counterproductive and hurtful. It seems like the process goes from being too accommodating to being too hurtful/harsh and spiteful, and I don't know why you wouldn't take the middle ground to avoid doorslamming altogether -- especially when FJs are so Fe-savvy and would likely know exactly where that middle ground lies, instinctively.

Yeah, so it would seem.

*e.g. just not contacting them anymore, treating them like a distant friend instead of a close one, and maybe sending them an email or something saying "I think we shouldn't be such close friends anymore, because of this behavior, that I had very serious and blunt and unsubtle conversations with you about before, meaning: it should come as no surprise to you that this was coming/inevitable, and that this is for the best, for both of us."

The person I recently ended contact with should have seen it coming. I tried over and over to talk about things, but she absolutely refused to see that she had any contribution to the problem or to try to change in any way. So I just told her everything I was angry about and why, and said I was done with her. So kind of half a doorslam. And throughout the whole thing she was acting like she was the one doorslamming me. But I know it was worse for her, because she's alienated everyone around her and it should be obvious to her that everything I said was true and she has serious problems.

 

[EJCC]

Thanks for your answers, folks. They're all kind of... depressing. But enlightening, definitely, even if they give me very little hope.

 

[Skyward]

I dont slam doors. It swings shut on its own, and by the time it's closed I am too far away to hear the slam.

 

[Ene]

Thanks for your answers, folks. They're all kind of... depressing. But enlightening, definitely, even if they give me very little hope.

EJCC,

It's not all depressing. People grow up. They mature and sometimes, they grow wiser, more patient, more objective... INFJ does not always equal doorslams. It can, but it doesn't have to. Also, being shut out of someone's life is not the worst thing that can ever happen to a person. If one door gets closed, just go open another one and if that one closes, open a window and if the window won't open, get a crow bar and prize the roof off. There's always a way in if a person's stubborn enough to find it

 

[Redbone]

I can see @ bold being true; however, that eagerness may not always be shared equally, resulting in perceived unnecessary conflict cycles [if it happens often enough] for the other person, which can itself taint the whole dynamic/their impression of the relationship. Ultimately willingness to communicate and share each other's pov is of crucial importance, imo/e.

Very true. It's only recently that I realized that bringing up issues that need to be dealt with could be perceived as conflict.

Is this something that more self-aware Nines can learn to work through? i.e. by being more assertive, in order to avoid having to doorslam anyone?

They do have to learn to work through it. I think that feeling anything beyond mellowness for a Nine is scary and they will disengage/numb themselves to get back to that comfortable inertia. They have to learn that they can speak up, have their own desires and needs, even be angry, and everything will still be okay. I think Nine's may be less likely to doorslam as they are to either blow up (do not want to see) or just simply sink into inaction and disengage from the person that is upsetting them.

 

[Society]

being shut out of someone's life is not the worst thing that can ever happen to a person.

if this was preschool, sure. but..

just from what i remember:
- doorslamming co-workers mid-projects.
- doorslamming with mutual property.
- doorslamming a father from a son.
- doorslamming a woman mid pregnancy.

relationships as adults rarely stay just about the relationships.

if all the person is taking away is themselves, one can say that they have a right too, and while that would be true - it's an empty defense. our rights don't guarantee that everything we do within them is ok, it just means enforcing otherwise isn't. just because i have the right for free speech doesn't mean that what i say can't be mean or even cruel, not to mention a huge indicator about me - because i am unavoidably expressing something about myself.
in the doorslam, that willingness enforce a pretend world were another perspective has no existence, more often then not involving a run from accountability and denying the consequences, and quite often a betrayal of commitments and anything that was done trusting in those commitments... it says a lot about a person and their capacity for cruelty, and depending on how close they were to whoever they are doing it too, about their lack of trustworthiness.

would you want to get close to someone like that?
would you want to put any level of trust in someone like that?

like we've sad, not all INFJs do this, and no behavior is type exclusive. but for people who do this... assuming you are not a complete masochist... the reasonable answer is no.

and yes, their are worst things in life. but just because the option of dismemberment is out there and way worst then breaking your legs, doesn't mean you should be looking for ways to break your legs.

 

[1487610420]

Very true. It's only recently that I realized that bring up issues that need to be dealt with could be perceived as conflict.

Sometimes what one sees as issues can simply be a byproduct of insufficient data that the other person intentionally chose not to/resists sharing, stemming from a different willingness/capacity for disclosure between the two, resulting in an unbalanced relationship with a mismatch in expectations.

It might not be easy to actually acknowledge and address this; ultimately the degree of importance of the bond/care for each other will dictate how/if such gap can/will be bridged, as it requires willingness to compromise, on both ends, ofc, which can take time, if ever happen at all, depending on how much stress there has been and how both parties feel it's worth it.

Everyone has issues [except me ] that can sometimes get in the way, and overcoming them isn't something that can be forced at will. Other times people just have a mismatch in their views on interpersonal dynamics and are not willing - out of pride, fear, etc - or interested in compromising/exposing themselves beyond a certain level that the other may expect/desire, for whichever reasons that either side may have for their stance.

Which results in:

 

[jcloudz]

i dont think door slamming works on enfp`s. i just learned that today. so, regardless if you do slam, as long as its alive and breathing...rest assured, there are still the windows and back door and you`re gonna get a visit.

 

[cafe]

I'll never get why people are so fascinated with this.

 

[jcloudz]

I'll never get why people are so fascinated with this.

there is no way of effectively cutting yourself off and im not sure why anyone would want to.

 

[cafe]

there is no way of effectively cutting yourself off and im not sure why anyone would want to.

Sure there is. You don't answer their calls or emails, etc. Change your number if you need to. Tell them if they show up at your house, you'll call the police. If you see them in public pretend like you don't.

I'd want to because the interaction does not appear to pose the hope of being more positive than negative for me under circumstances compatible with my understanding of reality. I understand that others may feel otherwise, but I don't understand why this particular quirk is so fascinating. There are so many quirks out there.