I doubt I will create a new thread. I am sufficiently satisfied. But, thank you, anyway.
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I doubt I will create a new thread. I am sufficiently satisfied. But, thank you, anyway.
It's almost like pure objective analysis feeding a judgemental function. Where as in a dom Ti pure objective analysis does not feed anything other then the understanding. As an EJ gets older they learn how to use inferior Ti/Fi without it feeding their dom. You get a much more laid back even keel EJ.
I can start to use my inferior to fire up my Fe, though as much as I do I still am not engulfed by my inferior Fe. And vice versa.
Back to original poster, Apologize for my other post. Crazy day at work and I didn't have the time to organize and fully explain my thoughts. Critical thinking is just that critical. It's a very negative way of thinkng. Not negative as in bad, but negative as in questioning. It's different then pure objective analysis. I see this in INTX alot. So my jump as INTP as if I figured it out when it was merely pulling crap out a my ass because of one match. That why it was followed by lol.
That article searching posted matches me about 90%. It's a close enough match to consider myself istp. Despite my objective analysis I have no issues with offending others on accident, that's more of an IJ trait then an IP trait. Objective analysis leads to understanding what bothers others and not really judge it, but use it as an understanding of that person. We can then play with it in a good way or a bad way.
Hmm, I'm like a mix of these two...?
I have some long term goals yep. They are inspiring, I sometimes like to call them a vision, ha ha. I need them more now than as a kid. I do get energized by whatever problems I need to solve while getting there but if they divert me for too long from the course I get very pissed off. I don't need to enjoy all of it to keep on track towards the goal so it's not a requirement to enjoy completing whatever action over again.
So how you describe TJs seems very purposeful to me which I can relate to but I also experiment to analyse and understand more while getting there so I'm not totally purposeful in that way, so while climbing the stairs I don't constantly look towards the top of it. I do a bit of that but not all the time.
How you describe TPs seems aimless somewhat which does bother me a bit and I cannot relate to being fully random and aimless like that. But what I said about the experimenting is like the TP version, I think.
What do you think?
From this it sounds likeep TJ style is your main while TP is a secondary. Your pissed off does sound TJ with diversion.
For example, while playing games I am extremely wreckless, but learning in the process. What looks like chaos at first actually causes me to become an expert. While my brother and dad who are IJ I will drive nuts, they put ALOT more analysis into them to find the "right" and "best" path towards their goal. I don't really have a right or best, I become an expert and ask...so what is your goal. If I don't know I may have to stumble a bit using all my knowledge to help direct me.
So I can be Ti-dom with TJ style as the main one? =)
So games, hmm. Do they read up on stuff or try to figure out all details in whatever way before trying to learn on the move? Because that's the thing I just don't have patience for much in the case of such things. I usually just go forward and learn on the move. And yeah, I'll be the expert by the end =) I can also optimize some methods without thinking about it, it happens automatically.
So as I said I have two modes of learning and one of them is this. The other one is for different kinds of tasks where there is a lot of information you need to know about for certain complex systems where you can't just experiment around without consequences so I do thoroughly read up on things first to get an understanding before I do anything. Say, the law of some organization.
Yeah that's a good distinction between T-dom and F-dom
How do you do this firing up Fe thing?
No worries.
My goal with questioning these theory things is simply to gain more understanding.
The Fe inferior article, yeah?
This IJ vs IP thing, it doesn't fully make sense to me so far. But you can see that. I do have that "IJ trait" too, the one you said you have
Except I don't see why it's specific to IJ rather than simply T>F?I would figure out which one is more engrained in you and choose that as the main type. It is completely possible to be one type and use some other function most of the time. It's the difference between nurture and nature. One is taught, the other is engraved from birth.
If there is enough difference you can just put ISTx or something. I switch to eSTP because I am alot like estp people, just a very minimal extroversion even compared to introverted ESTP, I am more introverted the they are. It's possible to use Ti heavily and be IJ or use Ni heavily and be IP. That's why we have function use tests which are in different orders then some predefined type. The function orders may also change during life while your personality style of order may be fairly consistant. For example Ni may say we need to lead with Ti for now. So while we lead with Ti we can still be Ni dom.
Inunderstand the not nitpicking for no reason. Thats why i made the point to say negative critical is not a bad thing and why critical thinking is usually seen as a good thing.
Because I am not goal oriented that much. Others can give me direction and when that happens I can look very much TJ. Depending on who I am around I can become very TJ the only thing is because I am naturally follow much TJ goal oriented in my direction, being spun or stopped or distraction usually doesn't affect me unless that detour causes an issue. Like my son is somewhat add so I do work with him to stay on tasks better and when I try to teach him i am very goal oriented. But only in certain instances. I actually get along very well with TJs because I can focus towards a goal and my overall knowledge due to the fact that I usually learn everything and anything.
Goal oriented people will judge actions based on progress toward goal. I look at everything as a cause and effect standing on its own, not towards goal. So what goal oriented people will dismiss because it's not relevant I will learn from and for one reason I can cross reference this stuff like crazy. I joke I am like Google search, give me nothing and I return nothing. But add in some text or words or such and I pull up lots of related possibilities.
Edit: Apologize for my retarded phone changing words from what I type.
This is more about sherlock Holmes and why he is INTP and not INTJ, but it seems like a good indicator of what Ti dom is vs IxTJ. I actually have issues watching the new sherlock Holmes show because he puts way to much emphasis on minute details and it just seems like mental masturbation. That's probably my Ti dom conflicting with his though in a sort of pissing match. Of course that would be toned down conflict if in person, and not a scripted show. I have much more respect for reality then a preplanned scripted stage. So shows that make people "seem" smart is nothing other then a setup where you purposely align stars in a certain fashion...which could conflict with myself as well.
This is from tumblr, not written by me
Cut and dry version: INTJ’s are led by their inner visions which they try to realize in the world through established, logical systems. They’re not particularly good at acting consistently with their own personal values, and they’re stressed out by concrete details in their immediate environment. Sherlock, on the other hand, is led by an inner system he’s built through logic and that he utilizes to draw conclusions from concrete details in his external environment. He is stressed out by interpersonal interactions. He is an INTP, not an INTJ.
Full text here
Sherlock is NOT an INTJ - Sherlock Character Analysis
This is from tumblr, not written by me
Cut and dry version: INTJ’s are led by their inner visions which they try to realize in the world through established, logical systems. They’re not particularly good at acting consistently with their own personal values, and they’re stressed out by concrete details in their immediate environment. Sherlock, on the other hand, is led by an inner system he’s built through logic and that he utilizes to draw conclusions from concrete details in his external environment. He is stressed out by interpersonal interactions. He is an INTP, not an INTJ.
Full text here
Sherlock is NOT an INTJ - Sherlock Character Analysis
Idk which one, lol.
Well you could truly be ESTP. I actually see it as a quite good possibility for you. Not going by social introversion/extraversion... OK just curious, how are you more introverted than the introverted ESTPs?
Interesting that others give you the direction to be goal oriented. How do they do that?
Unless you just mean something like a job at the workplace...
Yeah my analysis isn't about the goal either, it's just what helps me get there because I have an understanding that I can go by when I act.
I have considered ESTP. Mostly because I don't match description or function wise. I also take introverted thinking way farther then ESTPS do. That's my biggest issue. I initially tested as INTP and then I tested as ISTP, once or twice as INFP. No one that knows me would say I was extroverted, I am WAY to calm and reserved. Looking at people like Halla, not around anymore, whatever, and those in my life, I am alot more introverted. I have sent ISTP descriptions to people and they say it's scary how much it pins me for the most part. The closest I have came to estp is I love physical stuff. It doesn't energize me, it wears my ass out and I crash and then do I again as soon as I can. Social settings can scare the shit outta me. The small talk, the finding something to say when I don't know the person, etc. The really social would think I have a social anxiety disorder. It doesn't control my life enough to be a disorder.
People ask me to do things is usually how, or a life event comes up that requires it. Like I got interested in losing weight and just started reading and exercising. I don't follow plans, I switch between same old same old and new stuff. I hold onto a couple principles. Let muscle rest 48 hours between workouts for weights, push hard, switch up reps, keep core movements like squat, bench, pull up, rows, dips as main focus. They are full body, not isolation. Even with that I learned about everything, all types of workouts from German volume training to power lifting to body building to just one offs. Fast twitch, slow twitch, stretching hing, rotator cuff, I read article after article learning to the point where I knew more then alot of personal trainers and physical therapists. I do this with everything. Finances, computers, cars, building things, etc. I would read and try things and learn and combine it all. I played with all of it. I got into car stereos and learned about building boxes and all the specs of a speaker, cone travel, resonance frequency in free airregardless etc. All the different box types, bandpass, ported, sealed, etc. What how and why ports worked, how the car in competition systems actually becomes the box and you essentially end up with a box with 2 sealed chambers or windows as ports or such. How all that affects cone movement. I got into the game consoles and instead of learning every spec I learned the pros and cons. I got into vertex shaders, and pixel shaders, and are very thing to do with graphics cards. I build computers and got into all the internals and in depth about hard drive caching and different memory types and how they work. Finances, I learned about seps, 401k, ira, roth, etc. All the account, what they are used for, why we have them, coSt analysis and actally based on a person. While a rop life insurance may not make you more then a standard term plus investment if you suck at putting money away you will end up better now long run. Not to mention the house remodel I am doing. Moving walls, reruning plumbing, electrical, gas, stripping things to wall studs and concrete floor and putting it back together. I kinda laughed when you called INTP intellectual...I am not intellectual like an INTP, I just have this crazy desire to know how it ALL works.
ChocolateMoose123
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Yes yes yes to the bolded. My TJ mom looked at that with distrust. Which sucked growing up. I always resented that. Felt misunderstood and second guessed. but oh man, did you hit the nail on the head, Poki. Once I figure something out on my own I know every part of it. I don't forget.
Have you seen my post #43 to you?
Hm I find I don't forget if I was actually doing while learning, I'm such a kinesthetic learner. If it's a more theoretical understanding with less directly "doing" then after a long time of not using the understanding I will still remember of course, tho' it's first just the main logical meaning, the rest of the logic will come back if I make myself reason starting from the core logical structure that gets recalled as the first thing. It's less effort tho', if I'm actually doing it not just sitting trying to remember.
ChocolateMoose123
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I wouldn't say a TP is aimless but I wouldn't say they are "goal oriented". "Process oriented" is a better way to explain, maybe. Remember that J aspect gives comfort in closure. Having something to look forward to that is solid is security to them.
I don't think TPs use goals that way. A TP's can be subject to change more easily with new additions or information. I see TJ's as more hardlined once a path has been chosen, based on the ones I know.
EDIT: I was thinking about this and the only time I've seen TP's have a similar single-mindedness about a goal is when it hit their emotional core.
Have you looked into INTJ? ISTP and INTJ have similar "chart the course" styles.
OK you can stay ISTP
(Btw I don't get drained that fast, maybe I'm more extraverted than you are? I'm ok with social settings too. Though I used to have some social anxiety thingie but then I got out of it on my own willpower.)I wish I could say this about *any* MBTI description that it's scary how much it pins me, lol. But nope. I'm like a mix of some descriptions, the ST ones except ESTJ as that's too much Te-dom which is just not me. So no, no such fun scariness, I can only say this about Socionics, apparently.
There my type does get described with being both planned organized tendencies along with impulsive tendencies (and a lot of other things fitting me!), so it's cool by me.Hmmmm yeahh I also get more directed TJ if people ask me to do things. As for the sport example, I did the same (for a different original reason), I read up, exercised, experimented a lot, I pulled the main principles and everything else comes from that to create a full understanding.
The difference between us however is that I do follow training plans, when I first started I started by taking a training plan and following it to the letter. During executing that plan I did learn a few things and I learned even more afterwards and I created my own training plans very soon and I still follow those. And I have long term end goals with all of it. So see, that's my J side, wtf? Heh.
And no one forced me to follow any plan, I just do it naturally and I enjoy it. I really cannot tell if this was instilled in me in my early years or what. But I'm fine with it for sure. The only thing that changed over time with more understanding of my own is that I am now more flexible with switching around things in these plans on the fly if a changed circumstance -even if it comes up mid-workout- suddenly requires me to adjust. I still don't like shit coming up but eh.
Sure, same.
What you do isn't exactly what's considered as truly intellectual, if you do the pointless mental masturbation completely disconnected from reality that's what's considered intellectual
The things you listed I don't view as just pure mental masturbation. And I don't like doing that either, I do what you do instead. Understanding that I can apply in the real world. Simple as that.Hmm lol you were responding to that post while I was writing to you
So, how about I have a goal but I focus on the process mostly to get there? The goal isn't to look forward to it for security, wtf is that, does anyone even do that? It's there to inspire me. That's got nothing to do with security. Weird, again.
I'm hardline on some decisions but the path can be changed if that's necessary, sometimes it can be annoying and sometimes I can enjoy changing it. I flip a mental switch first and then I'm able to change it. I am single-minded otherwise in pursuing things.
Can you give me examples of where you saw those TP's getting so single-minded, how does that have to do with their emotional core? I'm really unclear on what you mean there, so thanks for elaborating.
INTJ, nah, that's flattering but I don't have that much Ni
ChocolateMoose123
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Hmm lol you were responding to that post while I was writing to you
So, how about I have a goal but I focus on the process mostly to get there? The goal isn't to look forward to it for security, wtf is that, does anyone even do that? It's there to inspire me. That's got nothing to do with security. Weird, again.
I'm hardline on some decisions but the path can be changed if that's necessary, sometimes it can be annoying and sometimes I can enjoy changing it. I flip a mental switch first and then I'm able to change it. I am single-minded otherwise in pursuing things.
Can you give me examples of where you saw those TP's getting so single-minded, how does that have to do with their emotional core? I'm really unclear on what you mean there, so thanks for elaborating.
INTJ, nah, that's flattering but I don't have that much Ni
Hmm. Maybe I didn't state that clearly. I don't think TJ's make goals for security sake. The reaching of the goal is why they make it. But I do see the act of setting them gives them a sense of sureness. Hope I cleared that up?
Well, you could be an extrovert. I don't know. You speak of having vision and youu seem to be a little of everything. I think intj and infj are good places to start.
yeah, I get bored sometimes before I even reach the goal. I have barely passed any of my video games as an adult. I play and get bored near the end and move on. I never really even had the goal to finish it. I just play for fun and learn. Then I piss people off because I get really good and I don't really care. Its like I had every spot on wii sports and I still hold the top spot after years. My nephew called me in and was like "i am gonna knock you outta the top spot and destroy your score" I responded with....ok...I really don't care, I was trying to get perfect and I got damn close and moved on. Sometimes I just say screw it come back later and try again until I get bored.
