[ISFJ] How to Console An ISFJ

[SubjectA]

Yes. Another question about my enigma, the ISFJ. I'm sure you're getting sick of these. Oh well...

I know for the most part SJ's don't like debating, especially xSFJ's. Whenever my fiance gets into a debate with a particularly stubborn opponent, he gets angry and/or hurt. At work he has gotten into a lot of small debates where he would get very upset. Virtually every single time the person that got him upset would say incredibly stupid things (i.e. if you voted for McCain, you're a racist.)

My usual consolation consists of, "You didn't say anything wrong...*proceeds to go on why his argument is logically sound*...It's obvious that what they said is incredibly stupid anyway, so it doesn't matter." Of course, this doesn't typically work for anyone else besides another NT. He continues to be pouty. And what really bothers me is that sometimes he blames himself for other people's dumb actions, even though he had nothing to do with it.

I don't like seeing him upset, especially over something so superficial. What can I do to comfort him?

 

[Walking Tourist]

I'm not an ISFJ but I would suggest not letting the ISFJ know that you believe the source of his upset is superficial or trivial. Probably the best thing to do is to listen to the ISFJ and then gently distract him.
But... I'm not sure if an ISFJ can be distracted as easily as an ISFP. I'd be interested in hearing about that from ISFJs.

 

[d@v3]

I'm not an ISFJ, but I agree with what WT said. Whenever he gets to thinking about the argument/debate, just distract him with some sort of action... I don't know what, maybe go for a walk or go get something to eat or something. Eventually he will understand that the debate was dumb and he will get over it. (keyword: "eventually")

But don't tell him that you thought the argument was pointless or that you feel it was dumb, because SJ's love to defend their positions. It will probably just start a new argument, this time with YOU.

 

[Laurie]

The ISFJ I know gets in dumb arguments.

 

[Giggly]

I'm not an ISFJ but I would suggest not letting the ISFJ know that you believe the source of his upset is superficial or trivial. Probably the best thing to do is to listen to the ISFJ and then gently distract him.
But... I'm not sure if an ISFJ can be distracted as easily as an ISFP. I'd be interested in hearing about that from ISFJs.

I'm not an ISFJ, but I agree with what WT said. Whenever he gets to thinking about the argument/debate, just distract him with some sort of action..:

This is true for me, esp the part about distracting them.

I get the intention of trying to get the person to understand that the resulting upset/hurt they feel makes it not worth having the argument in the first place. This is something I have had to learn and why I don't argue/debate with people, but that also really really upsets people, as they think they being ignored, so I don't really know what the solution is.

Also, I wouldn't use the word "dumb" or "stupid" to describe the argument because it's possible that the ISFJ may think that you are calling him or his viewpoints dumb, and that will just upset him further and might make him argue with YOU, but of course, you're trying to get him to move past that. Instead you should tell him that you think his opponent and their viewpoint is dumb if you really feel that way.

That will probably make him feel reassured and after letting him vent just a few minutes (not too long or he'll get too upset) then distract him with something else.

The ISFJ I know gets in dumb arguments.

Do you know of anything that has helped?

 

[SubjectA]

Instead you should tell him that you think his opponent and their viewpoint is dumb if you really feel that way.

That will probably make him feel reassured and after letting him vent just a few minutes (not too long or he'll get too upset) then distract him with something else.

I often do call the opponent dumb, after calling their arguments dumb. Now that I think about it I'm not sure how kindly he'd take to that, since they are his friends (for some reason.)

I swear I was trying to be nice.

 

[Laurie]

Do you know of anything that has helped?

Totally awesome.

I just randomly shot that out of my butt and realized it wasn't really helpful. Thanks for making me think more about it.

I only know one, but the one I know seems to get caught up in feelings vs. logical thought so it's hard to have a discussion with them. I imagine if I worked with someone like that it would drive me batty. Maybe it's only because it's a family member because I think people outside the family see their positive attributes and not the unhealthy ones.

I think the family situation (blended family, 5 billion kids, wanting a step dad to be a father to her kids) was just a festering pot of stress for an ISFJ and I probably saw the unhealthy side all too well for a few years there.

Trying to be helpful:
I tend to think an FJ (at least the two I know, both introverts) has a hard time regulating feelings and the judging function. They are driven by their feelings but also by what is "right" and it can get hard to formulate a good argument because they are driven by two opposing things. (I may be totally bastardizing MBTI, but this is my current thought on FJ)

In this case, your bf might have a really good point but have trouble expressing it without sounding like he is all feeling driven, which could drive the people he works with bonkers. The ISFJ I know also can be so caught up in "fair" or "loyalty" they forget that they themselves aren't perfect.

 

[Snow Turtle]

Distraction sounds like a good method. But like most introverts he'll probably go blow off steam and then forget about the whole thing. The last time I got upset or caught up in a debate on this forum in PM: I ended up ranting to some people on Ventrilo and made topics on forums to prove a point that I wasn't being illogical. You did a good job of validating his own emotions, although I'd stay away from the whole "No point getting upset over something so trivial" as it's something that may backfire.

Good result: He agrees and tries to ignore the irrationality of the other person.
Bad result: You're invalidating his own emotions by pointing out the silliness in getting all worked up.

If you don't want to call his friends dumb. Just say that they are being unreasonable with their views on that particular topic.

 

[Saslou]

Slap him (gently), tell him to put it into perspective and get over it.

OR

Just listen and be supportive.

Your choice.

 

[SubjectA]

Slap him (gently), tell him to put it into perspective and get over it.

OR

Just listen and be supportive.

Your choice.

You break it down and make it so simple. I like that.

 

[Saslou]

You break it down and make it so simple. I like that.

I was worried you wouldn't see the humour in that. Phew.

Everything is simple, people just choose to complicate matters.

 

[SubjectA]

Distraction sounds like a good method. But like most introverts he'll probably go blow off steam and then forget about the whole thing. The last time I got upset or caught up in a debate on this forum in PM: I ended up ranting to some people on Ventrilo and made topics on forums to prove a point that I wasn't being illogical. You did a good job of validating his own emotions, although I'd stay away from the whole "No point getting upset over something so trivial" as it's something that may backfire.

Good result: He agrees and tries to ignore the irrationality of the other person.
Bad result: You're invalidating his own emotions by pointing out the silliness in getting all worked up.

If you don't want to call his friends dumb. Just say that they are being unreasonable with their views on that particular topic.

It doesn't seem to bother him for long. He moves on quickly. Maybe the best thing to do is let him simmer down?

Because I'm not that good at distracting.

And another time when he seems impossible to console is when he gets into "it's my fault" mode. It's especially upsetting when it has something to do with me. Saying, "It's not your fault and here's why..." doesn't seem to do much either. Is this typical of ISFJs and what do I do when that happens?

 

[Giggly]

It doesn't seem to bother him for long. He moves on quickly. Maybe the best thing to do is let him simmer down?

Because I'm not that good at distracting.

And another time when he seems impossible to console is when he gets into "it's my fault" mode. It's especially upsetting when it has something to do with me. Saying, "It's not your fault and here's why..." doesn't seem to do much either. Is this typical of ISFJs and what do I do when that happens?

Ack. Yes. Repeating that it's not his fault like a broken record until he gets distracted with something else helps. Eventually (okay, it takes a loong time) he'll learn that he's not so bad. In the meantime, I really do think distraction is important to learn. You poor thing.

 

[FDG]

My long experience with ISFJs says that: if it's something small, then act as if nothing happen and carry on with what you were talking about before, without giving too much importance to the event. Eventually, if he-she is still upset, threathen to kill (as a joke) the person that started the idiotic argument, that usually works because they'll play devil's advocate ("it wasn't that important!") and put everything in perspective.

 

[SubjectA]

Eventually, if he-she is still upset, threathen to kill (as a joke) the person that started the idiotic argument...

You speak my language.

Ack. Yes. Repeating that it's not his fault like a broken record until he gets distracted with something else helps. Eventually (okay, it takes a loong time) he'll learn that he's not so bad. In the meantime, I really do think distraction is important to learn. You poor thing.

It's hard to distract myself, let alone someone else. :\ Uggghhh

 

[stellar renegade]

My long experience with ISFJs says that: if it's something small, then act as if nothing happen and carry on with what you were talking about before, without giving too much importance to the event. Eventually, if he-she is still upset, threathen to kill (as a joke) the person that started the idiotic argument, that usually works because they'll play devil's advocate ("it wasn't that important!") and put everything in perspective.

That's genius!

I'm gonna keep my eye on this thread as I have an ISFJ friend who it takes quite awhile to console, so any tips on how to streamline efforts toward that end would be helpful.

 

[Giggly]

The ISFJ I know also can be so caught up in "fair" or "loyalty" they forget that they themselves aren't perfect.

Admittedly I get caught up on this sometimes. I don't see it as I'm perfect (far from it). I see it as "I'm not perfect and neither are you, so here is the compromise that would be fair for us all." Basically we all gain a little and lose a little. That is always the case with non-exceptional humans and most of us are not exceptional, despite the fact that we all like to think we are. A lot of times people don't want to sacrifice that needed extra bit because the the promise of such a big reward that they get to have all for themselves, despite the fact that it's not quite fair to all parties involved. That is frustrating to me. And with kids, they don 't know any better (heck, not even adults do) so you have to just kind of be loving yet strict with them and they may not fully understand it until later in life (hopefully).

 

[Giggly]

My long experience with ISFJs says that: if it's something small, then act as if nothing happen and carry on with what you were talking about before, without giving too much importance to the event. Eventually, if he-she is still upset, threathen to kill (as a joke) the person that started the idiotic argument, that usually works because they'll play devil's advocate ("it wasn't that important!") and put everything in perspective.

ahahaha that's brilliant.

 

[stellar renegade]

So Giggly, what's the best way to keep an ISFJ from feeling down on themselves all the time, especially when you can't help the circumstances that make them feel that way? I tell her how much I appreciate her and all that, but it always takes so long to make her feel uplifted because she's pretty stubborn about it.

Also, do you ever find yourself unintentionally putting someone else on a guilt trip? Like, do you ever say something like, "You don't have to talk to me. There's no reason to anyway"? That tends to make me feel like she's trying to put me on a guilt trip when she says she's just stating it how she feels and that she never puts on airs or tries to manipulate people.

 

[Giggly]

So Giggly, what's the best way to keep an ISFJ from feeling down on themselves all the time, especially when you can't help the circumstances that make them feel that way? I tell her how much I appreciate her and all that, but it always takes so long to make her feel uplifted because she's pretty stubborn about it.

I can't speak for all ISFJs, but seriously, distraction works great for me. I am easily distracted, Not quite to the point of an ESFP but fairly close. I like simple and/or silly distractions the best. Like making a joke to make me giggle or distracting me with some tasty food or candy or giving me a hug and a kiss. Or go see a movie, or play a game. Or just change the subject. Or just doing something silly.

It takes a lot of patience but I think ISFJs need affirmation continually so if that doesn't come naturally to you or you're prone to get annoyed by that (many people are) then ISFJs will probably drive you away.

Do, do you ever find yourself unintentionally putting someone else on a guilt trip? Like, do you ever say something like, "You don't have to talk to me. There's no reason to anyway"? That tends to make me feel like she's trying to put me on a guilt trip when she says she's just stating it how she feels and that she never puts on airs or tries to manipulate people.

Yes, I have said things like that before and I didn't say them to put someone on a guilt trip. Just to state how I feel like your friend said (occasionally we might feel hopeless), but no one I've ever said something like that too has told me that they felt guilty. If they would have I'd probably immediately withdraw. I don't intend to emotionally manipulate anyone. The thought of that makes me feel queezy. sometimes I do like to talk to someone and feel as though someone is hearing me, even if they can't help.

.