How do you know "real preferences" ?

[Cimarron]

They say MBTI categorizes your real/natural preferences, as opposed to ability, right?

I'm not sure what my "natural" preferences are. I know I have goals for myself, but am I "fighting" my real preferences when I try to change/adapt my behavior in a fundamental way? But then maybe that 2nd state has always been my natural state, and I've been living in an "unnatural" state prior to that...

Does anyone else have this problem? Is my question even making sense?

 

[Virtual ghost]

Yes, your question makes sense.

I think that you are just playing games with your shadow, which is probably quite developed.

 

[Cimarron]

But how can a person tell which is the shadow, and which is the true self? If there even is a "true" self, in terms of personality.

 

[Virtual ghost]

But how can a person tell which is the shadow, and which is the true self? If there even is a "true" self, in terms of personality.

Both sides are you.

The only question is which is more developed.


This is why I have long ago asked you about your S/N ratio. This works for other letters as well. The more balanced you are,the more diverse are you. What in the end leads to your situation.

 

[Cimarron]

Both sides are you.

The only question is which is more developed.

Okay, that's true, and worth remembering. But I don't feel very balanced between the function sets. I feel more like I'm straining more toward one personality than the other. Or is the other straining toward the one? I can't tell, there are times when neither seems "natural". (I don't mean that I try to act the way an MBTI test describes my "type". I'm just talking about my personality, which would obviously exist with or without MBTI.)

 

[Cimarron]

Open to anyone and everyone. Any other thoughts on this subject? Is it a struggle with the "shadow"?

 

[Virtual ghost]

Open to anyone and everyone. Any other thoughts on this subject? Is it a struggle with the "shadow"?

Well, it could be.

For example I have noticed that very large number of your posts on this forum ends with"Last edited by Cimarron" what is strange for a TJ.

 

[01011010]

MBTI can't categorize individuals that aren't aware of themselves. For example, some answer the indicator test questions with what they think should be the answer and not what they actually do.

 

[Cimarron]

MBTI can't categorize individuals that aren't aware of themselves. For example, some answer the indicator test questions with what they think should be the answer and not what they actually do.

Well, I know, that's why I don't really trust test results anymore. That's why I came to this forum: to read what people of all "types" do/say/think/feel, and to watch how they act with each other. It's a longer process, but more thorough, and maybe more objective (more empirical).



A little off-topic:

For example I have noticed that a very large number of your posts on this forum ends with"Last edited by Cimarron" which is strange for a TJ.

One reason is because when I quote more than one person in a post, I have to edit. The other option would be to "double post"--me posting twice in a row, which wastes space, and is not considered good forum style (it is discouraged by the mods, I think).

In a similar way, when the latest post on a thread is from me, but I have a new idea, I edit that last post. To avoid wasting space (and drawing unnecessary attention to myself), instead of double-posting.

Or sometimes it's to maximize the chance of people responding to it. Writing style, word choice, etc. can make a lot of difference when people decide whether to post. So in that case, I am quietly drawing attention toward my post.

But there are times (the ones I guess you're talking about) when I edit because I think I may have been a little rude or a little too emotional.

 

[Totenkindly]

MBTI can't categorize individuals that aren't aware of themselves. For example, some answer the indicator test questions with what they think should be the answer and not what they actually do.

My favorite anecdote was about my FIL, a mechanical engineer who just about anyone with ANY degree of MBTI sense... even a novice... would have immediately read as an ISTJ. He could quite literally be the photograph they'd post in the MBTI handbook as an example for that type.

But in the self-test he took at work, he rated himself as ENFJ.
(He later retook it, with guidance from the counselor, and was deemed ISTJ.)

Go figure.

 

[Edgar]

Both sides are you.

The only question is which is more developed.


This is why I have long ago asked you about your S/N ratio. This works for other letters as well. The more balanced you are,the more diverse are you. What in the end leads to your situation.

Are you implying that a fully "balanced" person is XXXX (smack in the middle of all preferences)?

 

[Jack Flak]

The average SJ tends to doubt the validity of abstract constructs.

I've partaken in lengthy and detailed analysis of the differences in Perception between INTPs and ISTJs, since long before I understood type systems. The ISTJ, however much effort is applied, is always at a distance from the nature of the construct, by definition, because of the preference for Sensing. Trust of others' interpretations is naturally required for acceptance of the constructs, and the consequent understanding is fact (Or supposed fact) based. It comes from without.

 

[Lady_X]

^^^ wow...that makes so much sense...interesting

 

[Totenkindly]

The average SJ tends to doubt the validity of abstract constructs.

I agree.

Abstractions simply aren't real to them until they have a concrete interface. I have to remember this when I enter conversations with S-style people.

(Just look at national commentary on the recent presidential election to see this at work, especially in regards to Obama's abstracted "message of hope.")

 

[Randomnity]

A little off-topic:
One reason is because when I quote more than one person in a post, I have to edit. The other option would be to "double post"--me posting twice in a row, which wastes space, and is not considered good forum style (it is discouraged by the mods, I think).

multi-quote button, next to quote button.

/OT

 

[Cimarron]

Jack, thanks for your little info session. Could you relate it to my question (which I admit is kind of vague)? Are you talking about my approach to MBTI in general? I'd like to focus more on how I often find myself unsure about my own "real" cognitive/personality preferences. And it doesn't mean that I'm balanced--I think it feels either one side or the other, but not usually in the middle.

 

[SillyGoose]

I was just thinking about this today in regards to my type. I think I'm a rather rough ENFP and wondering why I'm not as nice.

Can the test results be affected by who you were around that day?

I typically read more about mbti when around my family (long story, not good) and now I think maybe ENFP is what I adapt to around them as intuition is highly valued by my father and feeling my stepmother. It was pretty much pounded into me as a kid.

So far the only thing I know is that I'm definitely E and P. So I started reading all of the EP descriptions and ESTP hits me dead on ***naturally*** not forced.

But I'm still pretty split between n/s and t/f. I think I can look like any of the EP's and it's frustrating to me that I can't just be me all the time. Its like I have to pick and choose depending on who I am with. Ugh.

 

[The Ü™]

My favorite anecdote was about my FIL, a mechanical engineer who just about anyone with ANY degree of MBTI sense... even a novice... would have immediately read as an ISTJ. He could quite literally be the photograph they'd post in the MBTI handbook as an example for that type.

But in the self-test he took at work, he rated himself as ENFJ.
(He later retook it, with guidance from the counselor, and was deemed ISTJ.)

Go figure.

It sounds like the guidance counselor's mere purpose was just to formally put him in his proper stereotype.