How do you define depth? What even is it, and does it matter?

[HongDou]

I was watching one of the Daria movies the other day and was watching the part where Quinn gets rejected by her history tutor because he felt that she was not his type and lacked "depth". Ever since then, I've been wondering about how I conceptualize what personal depth even is, because I'm not entirely sure.

Superficiality can be seen as a lack of depth, and that's somehow easier for me to define for myself. With superficiality, there's a lack of seriousness in the way people approach their thoughts. Stimuli can be glazed over without a critical lens, and of course we can all be guilty of this because our minds cannot be thoroughly attentive 100% of the time.

But then, is depth really something that's really remarkable about people's character? We gauge personal depth based on people's interests and the way they present themselves, but it all seems a little condescending to try and discern who has depth of character and who doesn't. From my experience, everyone experiences trauma in their lives, everyone has an interesting story to tell (even if it isn't interesting through our own lens), and everyone has thoughtful insight into certain topics or another.

For example, I could give a thorough analysis of certain kpop groups, but to some this may seem superfluous and could make me come across as vapid assuming that's the peak of my interests. However, I could also discuss some of my favorite postmodern philosophers instead, and people would hold my character in a much higher regard due to the prestige that intellect in philosophy holds. In another sense, how much "depth" I exude to someone else depends on my capacity to self-disclose my emotions and life experiences, which I may not always want to do because oversharing can overwhelm others. So this apprehension around sharing could also make me come across as more simple and less complex.

So I guess I'm writing all this to say...basically I feel like most, if not all, people in life have some sort of depth of character. But then if we all possess depth, is it even something especially noteworthy in someone else? I'm thinking about how so many people will go out of their way to make themselves seem more "interesting" in order to gratify their own self-image and impress others. Random, but I recently saw someone patronize someone else for not recognizing that a song lyric was about sexual gratification instead of introspection and I just couldn't help but think the whole spectacle was so pretentious lol. This just got me thinking about how some people always want to give off the impression they have especially more depth than someone else - the more experimental music you listen to, the more interesting you are; the more historical novels you read, the more respected you are; and the list goes on. But these aren't actually reflections of your character - it's media you consume that you attach to your sense of identity because they resonate with you. And at the end of the day, we all resonate with different things for similar reasons...it speaks to our souls, our emotions, our experiences. So then the universality of all this makes me wonder, what is the point of making yourself seem particularly interesting when it's simply human nature to reflect thoughtfully on what individually moves us? We're all capable and engage in complex thought, so is there a point in highlighting your complexity when we are all complex in the first place?

Just feeling like musing in particular today

 

[Abcdenfp]

I was watching one of the Daria movies the other day and was watching the part where Quinn gets rejected by her history tutor because he felt that she was not his type and lacked "depth". Ever since then, I've been wondering about how I conceptualize what personal depth even is, because I'm not entirely sure.

Superficiality can be seen as a lack of depth, and that's somehow easier for me to define for myself. With superficiality, there's a lack of seriousness in the way people approach their thoughts. Stimuli can be glazed over without a critical lens, and of course we can all be guilty of this because our minds cannot be thoroughly attentive 100% of the time.

But then, is depth really something that's really remarkable about people's character? We gauge personal depth based on people's interests and the way they present themselves, but it all seems a little condescending to try and discern who has depth of character and who doesn't. From my experience, everyone experiences trauma in their lives, everyone has an interesting story to tell (even if it isn't interesting through our own lens), and everyone has thoughtful insight into certain topics or another.

For example, I could give a thorough analysis of certain kpop groups, but to some this may seem superfluous and could make me come across as vapid assuming that's the peak of my interests. However, I could also discuss some of my favorite postmodern philosophers instead, and people would hold my character in a much higher regard due to the prestige that intellect in philosophy holds. In another sense, how much "depth" I exude to someone else depends on my capacity to self-disclose my emotions and life experiences, which I may not always want to do because oversharing can overwhelm others. So this apprehension around sharing could also make me come across as more simple and less complex.

So I guess I'm writing all this to say...basically I feel like most, if not all, people in life have some sort of depth of character. But then if we all possess depth, is it even something especially noteworthy in someone else? I'm thinking about how so many people will go out of their way to make themselves seem more "interesting" in order to gratify their own self-image and impress others. Random, but I recently saw someone patronize someone else for not recognizing that a song lyric was about sexual gratification instead of introspection and I just couldn't help but think the whole spectacle was so pretentious lol. This just got me thinking about how some people always want to give off the impression they have especially more depth than someone else - the more experimental music you listen to, the more interesting you are; the more historical novels you read, the more respected you are; and the list goes on. But these aren't actually reflections of your character - it's media you consume that you attach to your sense of identity because they resonate with you. And at the end of the day, we all resonate with different things for similar reasons...it speaks to our souls, our emotions, our experiences. So then the universality of all this makes me wonder, what is the point of making yourself seem particularly interesting when it's simply human nature to reflect thoughtfully on what individually moves us? We're all capable and engage in complex thought, so is there a point in highlighting your complexity when we are all complex in the first place?

Just feeling like musing in particular today

I had to think about this for a couple minutes. I think you over estimate the majority of the population. I think most people go from moment to moment without any thoughts of any real substance.
I think most people operate in superficial modes, its why porn is so popular. It requires no depth / connection.
Depth to me requires a reflection , both self reflection and reflection regarding the world. It also requires awareness and the interest in understanding something be it yourself or a subject / another person with great detail.

People who are deep in the way i view the concept. Have taken time to reflect on life in general their participation in it and even further to that their legacy.

Just like a superficial conversation " love your hair"

vs

a more meaningful conversation " What part of aspect of your personality are you trying to convey through self expression of your hair style choices"

most people don't give a fuck about why you make drastic changes so they don't ask the second question, which would require a more in-depth conversation. They just see a physical change and say "cool"

I think finding people who are insightful and willing to share their insights in meaningful conversations that potentially change your outlook or expand it, is what's awesome about depth.

But most people IMO are walking zombies stuck to their phone without a second thought of their legacy and small speckle of time in this universe and what it means.

 

[Pessimistic Hippie]

I'll compare roommates I've had. The first roommate, as sweet as she was:

"I keep inviting these men over, sleeping with them, and then they never speak to me again. Why does this keep happening to me?"
Yet, she proceeded to keep doing it, and getting hurt over and over.

The second one:

"I know I date around a lot and people tell me I'll never find someone unless I'm happy with myself. But me being unhappy with myself doesn't mean I can't give happiness to someone else. I've accepted how I am. I just want to find someone else who does, too."

I disagreed with both of them. But to me, the difference is that the first roommate was cut off from understanding exactly why her actions are self-defeating. The second one was aware of his faults; he just disagreed with the theory. I think having depth does matter because even if two people are doing the exact same things, depth is the difference between choosing to do it (regardless of whether or not you end up regretting it later, it doesn't mean you weren't aware of your actions,) and actually being a victim of it.

 

[HongDou]

I had to think about this for a couple minutes. I think you over estimate the majority of the population. I think most people go from moment to moment without any thoughts of any real substance.
I think most people operate in superficial modes, its why porn is so popular. It requires no depth / connection.
Depth to me requires a reflection , both self reflection and reflection regarding the world. It also requires awareness and the interest in understanding something be it yourself or a subject / another person with great detail.

First of all, I appreciate your contribution to my thread. I've started a few word vomit threads before just to put my thoughts to text, but I feel like, ironically, this forum's community isn't really oriented towards thoughtful discussion anymore unless it's politically charged where people get to amplify their own echo chambers lol

I think we may fundamentally disagree here, though. I can see where you'd think I'm overestimating, but I'm really trying to claim that most, if not all, people possess depth without my own cultural lens influencing this statement. If you were to ask me, personally, what I think about some of the issues you raised re: porn, phone usage, etc I would absolutely agree that they're rooted in superficiality and a lack of substance. However, that's bringing my own experiences into the mix.

Let me chalk up an example so I can try to better explain what I mean. I'm a person of color, I'm not straight, and my gender identity is up in the air right now too. One of my best friends lives in Long Island with a bunch of conventionally straight white yuppies, and when I go there to visit I can often lose my mind with how bubbled and simplistic these people seem to me. However, if I were to really think about people objectively, I can't think of these people in bad faith and assume they don't go their minds are somehow more simplistic than mine and can't engage in critical thought. These people have to navigate life and make major decisions - about raising family, navigating their career and how it affects them, coping with death and dying of pets and family members, etc. Just because I get to see these people enjoy mimosas and have a seemingly mindless good time shouldn't negate the fact that, in the grand scheme of things, these people have complex life experiences and have had to overcome obstacles to get where they are today...obstacles that mandate that the individual to confront their inner psyche with critical thought and introspection in order to be overcome.

Or, in another example, we can consider one of the families I work with for my job. The mother is dyslexic, raising four children (one of whom is medically fragile) with a minimally-involved husband. From my own perspective, I unconsciously want to label her as "simple" because of how hard it is for her to process information...and I'm not just talking about reading. I have to explain to her over and over the same concept, and it is still hard for her to grasp it because it's hard for her to engage in critical thought, but it's because she is spread so thin from taking care of her family. Does this incapability of thorough thought denote that she does not have as much depth as someone who is neurotypical, with an education, and with more time to spend introspecting on their own inner experience? I have to say no, because she still has her own nuanced experience navigating difficult life circumstances even if she cannot properly thoroughly reflect on them due to her preoccupation getting her job done. She even ended up coming to me for assistance with her postpartum depression, which shows she is also capable of the same emotional and intellectual insight that we expect of someone we conventionally consider with "depth".

People who are deep in the way i view the concept. Have taken time to reflect on life in general their participation in it and even further to that their legacy.

Just like a superficial conversation " love your hair"

vs

a more meaningful conversation " What part of aspect of your personality are you trying to convey through self expression of your hair style choices"

most people don't give a fuck about why you make drastic changes so they don't ask the second question, which would require a more in-depth conversation. They just see a physical change and say "cool"

I think finding people who are insightful and willing to share their insights in meaningful conversations that potentially change your outlook or expand it, is what's awesome about depth.

But most people IMO are walking zombies stuck to their phone without a second thought of their legacy and small speckle of time in this universe and what it means.

And I totally hear your frustration with superficial conversation, but that kind of goes back to part of the point I was making about social conventions. In a lot of cultures, it's encouraged for people to maintain empty platitudes and social graces. It can potentially be seen as invasive to dig deeper with someone who you don't have a certain level of familiarity with, or people can become defensive and offended if you try. So while it's easy to pigeonhole strangers and acquaintances as having less depth, I feel the reality is we all possess depth in very individualized ways. What's harder to admit, I think, is that we're all people with depth (even if it's not in the ways we personally consider to be valuable or admirable) and we're not as especially deep as we think - because admitting that can shatter one's own ego and self-image.

Also sorry this response came in so delayed, I finished writing while goofing off during my grad classes haha

 

[HongDou]

I'll compare roommates I've had. The first roommate, as sweet as she was:

"I keep inviting these men over, sleeping with them, and then they never speak to me again. Why does this keep happening to me?"
Yet, she proceeded to keep doing it, and getting hurt over and over.

The second one:

"I know I date around a lot and people tell me I'll never find someone unless I'm happy with myself. But me being unhappy with myself doesn't mean I can't give happiness to someone else. I've accepted how I am. I just want to find someone else who does, too."

I disagreed with both of them. But to me, the difference is that the first roommate was cut off from understanding exactly why her actions are self-defeating. The second one was aware of his faults; he just disagreed with the theory. I think having depth does matter because even if two people are doing the exact same things, depth is the difference between choosing to do it (regardless of whether or not you end up regretting it later, it doesn't mean you weren't aware of your actions,) and actually being a victim of it.

Hmm, I definitely understand your reasoning which kind of goes along with abcdenfp's as well. But following the line of reasoning of my last response, I'm also hesitant to say that the capacity to introspect and gain insight to one's motivations is the key identifier of depth of character, when I feel people can possess depth 1) to a different degree within the confines of their own community and culture and 2) in spite of limited reflective capacity due to various socioeconomic reasons and life circumstances. I guess I'm also trying to discuss how the conceptualization of depth of character is something that's highly culturally contextual and depending on the individual's own interpretation, which shouldn't negate the fact that there are other interpretations as well that allow depth to be more universal.

 

[GoggleGirl17]

To me it's not about specific kinds of thoughts or topics, but about accessing whatever lies beneath that which normally gets presented to the world. Everyone has dimensions to them, and to me it's more a question of how open a person is to self-exploration vs. how subconsciously closed off they are. Some people are more accustomed to and skilled at thinking about certain things and not others, but I think depth is more about being receptive and about the desire to break self-imposed barriers to authenticity, whatever those may be. We are all at different stages of different simultaneous journeys, and we all have an ingrained self-concept to deal with, so it would be dishonest of me to judge anyone as not being deep. Recognizing that there may be more to the story, I think, is the idea of depth.

 

[Abcdenfp]

PH and I are on the same wave length with this

but I understand your points entirely now HD .


I would say universally yes everyone is capable of depth just like everyone is capable of love , anger etc
however depth is like a well it draws on experience , personal growth , compassion and self awareness.. how deeply each one of us chooses to draw from this well for any given scenario will provide the level of "depth" that you give to any given moment or circumstance .


I would say people who have experienced a wide range of emotions, life experiences , hard knocks have a lot more to draw up from the well .

 

[agentwashington]

I think depth of character stems from the ability to engage in certain topics in depth. While everybody has their own life experiences, I don't think everyone engages with most topics on a level that is quite as deep as is demanded of a person who has depth of character to do it.

Valuing depth only comes in with certain people, anyway. It doesn't seem to be valued widely in society. Most of what people would do on a day to day basis doesn't require depth of engagement with the topics they come across. Newspapers don't report news in groundbreaking analysis of news events, generally speaking; they report simply what is going on. We turn to more specialized magazines for political topics in depth, and those don't have as wide a circulation and readership as newspapers.

It is generally accepted in society to not have depth. Strangers that you meet, unless in specific circumstances, will likely never engage in an in-depth discussion of any topic. It's just a fact of life.

It only matters to me because I do sometimes engage in depth with the media I consume, and I like it when people share the same interest. Meaning, depth of character in this case would require depth of perception and capability of complex analysis in the consumption of said media. I do engage in superficial discussions as well even with close people, things can't be deep all the time. But in general, it is something nice to have. I have higher esteem for people who can either do complex analysis or go in deep with media than people who don't. It's just a fact of life for me. It doesn't mean people who don't engage in these kinds of discussion don't have valid experiences. It just means that their experiences are generally less compatible with mine, as a rule of thumb. Of course, I do enjoy things superficially as well, so it's not like I can't experience things as superficially as others do. It's all about potential. In your first example, I would suppose that someone who wants a life partner would choose it based on how compatible they are due to these differences.

 

[SirCanSir]

In my view its something that comes naturally as you overcome personal struggles. Someone may argue that people who think deeply about topics and engage into intellectual conversations around them are deep, but i dont necessarily agree. The difference in opinion and stance between someone who has gone through an experience and someone who just analyzes it is usually obvious. Looking at the big picture is something that can help you find solutions but it usually keeps you detached from the details that are the cause of the struggle to begin with.

It also depends on self awareness of course. Going on autopilot in life without analyzing how you are affected or change as you move forward wont give you any depth. So self reflecting is the other essential factor to reach it. Examining your stance in life helps you become more aware of the position others take which makes forming an opinion about it much easier.


EDIT: I was defining how i view depth of character here. Depth in general can mean a lot of things depending on context.

 

[Bacopa]

It's probably associated with having good focus and a long attention span.

But I guess hardships in life can give some depth to your personality.

 

[Abcdenfp]

In my view its something that comes naturally as you overcome personal struggles. Someone may argue that people who think deeply about topics and engage into intellectual conversations around them are deep, but i dont necessarily agree. The difference in opinion and stance between someone who has gone through an experience and someone who just analyzes it is usually obvious. Looking at the big picture is something that can help you find solutions but it usually keeps you detached from the details that are the cause of the struggle to begin with.

It also depends on self awareness of course. Going on autopilot in life without analyzing how you are affected or change as you move forward wont give you any depth. So self reflecting is the other essential factor to reach it. Examining your stance in life helps you become more aware of the position others take which makes forming an opinion about it much easier.


EDIT: I was defining how i view depth of character here. Depth in general can mean a lot of things depending on context.

agreed

 

[Abcdenfp]

for me its still about self awareness , internal struggle and enlightenment . Plato's allegory of the cave is one of my favorite expressions of depth and self awareness..

 

[HongDou]

To me it's not about specific kinds of thoughts or topics, but about accessing whatever lies beneath that which normally gets presented to the world. Everyone has dimensions to them, and to me it's more a question of how open a person is to self-exploration vs. how subconsciously closed off they are. Some people are more accustomed to and skilled at thinking about certain things and not others, but I think depth is more about being receptive and about the desire to break self-imposed barriers to authenticity, whatever those may be. We are all at different stages of different simultaneous journeys, and we all have an ingrained self-concept to deal with, so it would be dishonest of me to judge anyone as not being deep. Recognizing that there may be more to the story, I think, is the idea of depth.

PH and I are on the same wave length with this

but I understand your points entirely now HD .


I would say universally yes everyone is capable of depth just like everyone is capable of love , anger etc
however depth is like a well it draws on experience , personal growth , compassion and self awareness.. how deeply each one of us chooses to draw from this well for any given scenario will provide the level of "depth" that you give to any given moment or circumstance .


I would say people who have experienced a wide range of emotions, life experiences , hard knocks have a lot more to draw up from the well .

These are my favorite responses I think because they're the most inclusive in who is afforded the capacity for depth. I definitely agree that I feel everyone is capable of depth, but the amount of insight and reflection the individual experiences determines how much they make use of it. I also think this kind of helped resolve my issue around conflating depth of character with depth of experience, as they can mean different things contextually like [MENTION=40498]SirCanSir[/MENTION] mentioned. I think I personally see a lot of people, who are not necessarily people who I would consider having great depth of character, but who do have great depth of experience and complex life circumstances. I really admire people who are able to navigate complex life experiences, regardless of whether or not they're able to fully process and reflect on them (which may or may not be influenced by various social factors like accessibility to intellectual resources, etc).

Also I feel bad not being able to follow up on this thread as much because I'm so overwhelmed with work and grad school. I think that's also why I'm particularly interested in examining the social factors that may inhibit one's capacity to be able to reflect and expand their thoughts in a thorough manner - because there are real reasons (such as burnout) that can hinder one's capacity for the conventional idea of "depth".

 

[Maou]

The amount of divergences of thought, experiences, and self-reflections.

 

[Abcdenfp]

“Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.”

― Friedrich W. Nietzsche

 

[crustydemon]

Depth to me mostly means the person isn't generally ignorant.

 

[Mole]

There is depth, and there is depth within depth.

So we start off wide awake and slowly go deeper, we go deeper and start to relax, we enjoy ourselves, and then when we feel like it, we go deeper, until we start to appreciate the beauty around us.

At this point we are deeply entranced by beauty, and we may decide to create another depth within the trance of beauty. We are creating a trance within a trance. This is exceptionally powerful, and it is best to do it for a particular purpose, decided in advance.

But know that an addiction is a trance within a trance, and when we leave the first trance, we are precipitated into the second trance, and if we try to leave the second trance, we are precipitated into the first trance. And so on ad infinitum, we are in an addictive loop, never ending.

So, as they say, when we look into the depths, sometimes the depths look back.

 

[LillyRoar]

Depth is when it doesn’t get annoying to speak to that person after a couple of minutes.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Depth has to do with meaning and it doesn't necessarily imply more complexity. I see superficiality as connected to selfishness and only considered short-term outcomes for self.

Superficiality relationally would be to only dating the most physically attractive people. That is looking at people as though they are objects and what they can do for you, instead of thinking about kindness or reciprocity. Only wanting friends who are wealthy to boost your own social status or to get something from them is superficial because it has nothing to do with who the people actually are. It is like glossing over everything to get a quick, selfish reward without any concern for meaning, or acknowledging the needs or reality of the other people. It is like seeing people as plastic objects and seeing how they give you an advantage, but having no investment in their well being.

Having depth relationally would mean being willing to help someone through their cancer, to be kind when it costs. I see it as being willing to risk something, to let it cost you something, rather than looking for quick fixes and selfish rewards. Superficiality is like not being alive, but plastic, short-sighted, and only conscious of self, but hardly even that. Having depth is about being willing to feel or understand deeply, seeing further, being aware of your own self and others, and just living in a bigger universe and having a bigger heart.

 

[Saturnal Snowqueen]

A lot of times depth is a vibe to me, where I feel like if I crack a person open, goo will spill everywhere. But also, I feel like depth is not necessarily specific topics or hobbies, but knowing how that hobby or topic makes you feel on a spiritual level, to live and breathe something is depth. It's an awareness of the consequences your actions will have and how they will have an affect on the world. People don't have to agree with you, but I think anyone who can put aside their views, even for just a second, to see how the other person is thinking, has a fair amount of depth. Also, I don't think you have to present as some nihilistic, conspiracy theorist Ni dom to be deep. I think they're still deep, but are they deeper than anyone else? Not necessarily. Shower thoughts and theories are, but what's most fascinating to me is the breadth of someones' feelings and what they keep hidden. For that reason, I think a lot of people who look superficial can be more interesting than people who those who aren't. I mean, if you're already spilling out your guts out onto the paper, then I don't have as much left to learn about you. While as for superficial people, I want to know more about what makes them tick, how they see themselves, how far they can be pushed, what kind of things they think about at night. Also, with the deep theories, if they don't apply to the human psyche, then they don't interest me as strongly. Also, it's interesting the thought of "fake deep". Like the person doesn't seem that much of a deep thinker, but then they post some wise philosophical quote with all sorts of swooshes. I've hated those people, being all shallow and then trying to act all pretentious and soft in their profile. But who knows, that quote might really mean something to them, it might be their only really vulnerability. They might be seeing themselves in a way that we don't see, and they should know themselves better than we know them. I might not click with these people, we tend to have rather different ways of thinking, but you can't automatically dismiss their "deepness". Maybe we're the ones lacking depth for not looking further, maybe we're all coming off as fake deep to everyone but we can't see it because we're all so stuck in our heads.