Gay and transexuals

[Eugene Watson VIII]

People don't think it be like it is, but it do

it just be like that..

how you gonna dont?

 

[ceecee]

Why does everyone want to make God the bad guy?

Don't blame god for the shit you type.

 

[miss fortune]

I'm not a true Christian because I believe that homosexuality is A-OK? Is that the basis of religion now? Doctrine and Biblical fine print?

It says in the Bible that if you believe in the Holy Trinity and the divinity of Jesus Christ, and you've accepted Christ in your life, you're basically a Christian. Read Romans 10:10. It outlines what being saved actually is.

Man...

dude... you know that the bible doesn't define who is a christian... individual christians decide who gets to join their special club like a fraternity or something.

you just got blackballed it seems sorry, you're now stuck being a heathen because someone said you can't sit with them

jesus is way exclusive like that, you know

 

[Bilateral Entry]

Merry Christmas, Everyone! <3

Happy Hanukkah, my tolerant friend! I'll light a Menorah for you!

 

[Coriolis]

I see the problem. If gay people are born that way, this means God made them gay. If someone believes being gay is wrong, this is tantamount to saying that God made something wrong. The solution: try to come up with some other explanation for homosexuality, and deny any evidence to the contrary.

Then are not a true Christian. Christians believe in and try to adhere to the Bible.

It's like saying I am a Aristotelian but don't believe in his writings.

No. It's like saying I am an Aristotelian, but don't agree with everything he wrote, especially where it is contradicted by more recent findings.

I was referring to the references by some posters about how God supposedly forbids masturbation (and you who implied God demands procreation). I inferred from these statements that you guys were criticizing God's word (even if they were incorrect).

First, not everyone views what is in the Bible as "God's Word". For those who don't, it certainly is subject to question. For those who do, though, what remains open to question is how humans interpret it. This has been far from monolithic or consistent through the ages.

It's a very interesting question. The reason it is interesting to me is that in order to feel like you were born the 'wrong' sex and want to change sex you have to identify very strongly as female or male. This brings into question societies role in gender stereotyping. Often trans people identify, from a very young age, as wanting to; dress as play as, the opposite gender to which they were physically born.... but then what happens with tomboys or tom girls.... I think the thing is that gender is a lot more complex that the genitalia we are born with. Societies expectations play a large part too. It's something I have mulled over many many times. Because often when you ask a trans individual they will identify with the stereotype of the other gender, which I have always found to be society generated. But it's possible that it is just over emphasised because of a perceived lack in themselves of being that sex.

I have wondered along similar lines as well. I have always been more attracted to stereotypicallly masculine things over feminine, except I have a typical female figure and wear women's clothing styles designed to look good on it. I have never had any interest in changing my anatomy or being male. Perhaps that is simply because I don't have a strong identification with one gender or the other, and nowadays at least, there isn't anything I want to do that I cannot do as a woman.

Happy Hanukkah, my tolerant friend! I'll light a Menorah for you!

And Blessed Yule while we are at it.

 

[tkae.]

Latest issue of Scientific American Mind
http://www.scientificamerican.com/magazine/mind/2016/01-01/

Maybe someone should shake a Bible at those kids. That's the solution. Really fuck them up.

Why would you post a link to an article locked behind a paywall? It's useless.

Yes. Trans people have body dysmorphia. Asexuals have a lack of sexual attraction. Homosexuals have sexual attraction to the same sex.

I think I quoted the wrong post. You mentioned body dysmorophic disorder and transexuality. BDD isn't the same case as the homosexuality classification. It has applications beyond transexuals. For example, one of my advisors who's a clinical psychologist used Michael Jackson as the primary example of someone who might have body dysmorphic disorder. Homosexuality was created specifically for homosexuals, while body dysmorphic disorder isn't only for transexuals. Transexuals are diagnosed with it because of the distress they have about their physical sex, not because they're transexuals. Distress is the driving mechanism behind most disorder classifications. For example, it's okay to be black. It's okay to not like being black. But if you're outright distressed about being black, that distress makes it an unhealthy mental state and it should be open to discussion whether it's abnormal (on the assumption that normal functioning leads us away from distress rather than causing distress).

Tl;dr it isn't being transexual that leads to a body dysmorphic disorder diagnosis, it's the distress of "being the wrong sex" that leads to the diagnosis. The treatment for a transexual who's distressed about their real sex would be to lead them towards acceptance of who they really are. Once they aren't distressed, the disorder is considered gone.

Hypoactive sexual desire disorder doesn't have the same visibility of case differences, but it's the same thing. It isn't the lack of sexual desire that's a disorder, it's being distressed about a lack of sexual desire. A friend of the family has cancer, and his prostate was obliterated by chemo in an earlier stage. Now he's fixated on the fact that he can't please his wife. He feels inferior as a husband and a man because he can't get an erection. He's used penis pumps, he's used injections... he has no sexual desire, but he has a want to pleasure his wife. That distress is leading him into all sorts of unhealthy places. It isn't specifically targeting asexuals, asexuals just happen to meet the definition. And if they're distressed, they should talk to someone. But if they aren't distressed, they don't have HSDD. Distress is probably the most important of the four Ds needed for a mental disorder (distressing, dysfunctional, deviant, and dangerous). I tend to see that as the hierarchy of them.

Transsexuals claim to have a different brain want to get their sex change. Gay people have a brain similar to females yet they don't have the urge to get their sex change. Why is this?


Edit: Actually mods, don't delete this thread. I change my mind.

The brain is the primary sex organ. People forget this often. Your genitals are almost arbitrary. The hormone interactions and levels within your brain are the chemical determinant of sex, to the point that if you cut the genitals off the person will still be that sex.

Saying that gay people have a brain similar to females is... I don't even know.Are you getting that from the research done in Stockholm? We haven't concluded anything about that. There's no way to know if the similarities are genetic or neuroplastic. That is, there's no way to know that gay men and women have similar language skills compared to straight men and lesbians because they were born that way or because society steered them towards activities that led them to develop those skills. We don't know enough to understand the implications of those findings.

I have a man's brain hormonally. I am a male. I just happen to like sex with my boyfriend and think vaginas are disgusting. I wouldn't go near one if you paid me to. We don't understand the basis of homosexuality, but being transgender involves the hormonal composition of the brain. We're much more confident about that than any root of homosexuality.

 

[fetus]

Not all Christians are like this, guys...I promise.

Some people give us a really bad name, but there are plenty who are accepting. All of this just makes me really sad.

 

[/DG/]

Okay, so I was bored so I read through this entire thread and I am going to quote some random things to respond to. I'm not looking to make a specific argument or point or anything, so this is just a collection of random posts I am responding to. I will break it up into multiple posts because this might be a tad long.

I agree. It's just interesting to see people go really far in one direction in one thread and then back pedal so hard they get whiplash in another because something that affects them personally is brought up. So they'll say they'd never associate with someone who disagrees with a diagnosis, and that psychiatric diagnoses are hard fact, and that to doubt one makes a person delusional. But the moment they don't like a diagnosis being thrown at them there's all this fun outrage and moral posturing and "don't you know the HARM it causes?! How very dare you."

And society as a whole can be wrong about things. Not too long ago, it was acceptable to have slaves. Not too long ago, it was unacceptable for women to have jobs of their own. But you know what? As pessimistic as I am, I've noticed one thing. Society as a whole tends to better itself over time. Do we sometimes take backwards steps? Of course. But people today have a lot more rights/equality/whatever, than they did before. As resources have become easier to obtain over time (at least in the developed world), we can now focus our energy on social issues as opposed to killing someone for our next meal.

Look, psychology/psychiatry is far from perfect. We all get that. But in relatively recent years, the field has moved toward empiricism. We aren't just making random guesses and assumptions anymore. The field now uses the scientific method, a rigidly defined principle of testing and gathering new information. Can there be mistakes? Yes. Do we know everything? Of course not. But that is no reason to dismiss the entire field. Every field has gotten something wrong at some point. Are we going to dismiss the concept of DNA because Darwin originally postulated that gemmules were the mode in which inherited information was passed onto one's offspring? That's ridiculous.

 

[/DG/]

The reason for this is because there is no such thing as a "sexual disorder." As in, a person can't develop something that doesn't exist. Mental and physical illnesses are very real. There is a reason homosexuality was taken out of the DSM--because it isn't a disorder.

Actually, there ARE such things as sexual disorders (though homosexuality is not one of them). The full DSM is behind a paywall, but you can see a list of them here: http://dsm.psychiatryonline.org/doi/abs/10.1176/appi.books.9780890425596.dsm13

Of course, in order to be classified as a disorder, the condition needs to cause extreme distress to the patient or cause impaired functioning. So for example, if a male is perfectly fine not having much of a sexual drive, he cannot be classified as having male hypoactive sexual desire disorder.

At any rate, this is just a point of clarification. I am NOT at all trying to indicate that homosexuality is morally wrong or a disorder.

It's a very interesting question. The reason it is interesting to me is that in order to feel like you were born the 'wrong' sex and want to change sex you have to identify very strongly as female or male. This brings into question societies role in gender stereotyping. Often trans people identify, from a very young age, as wanting to; dress as play as, the opposite gender to which they were physically born.... but then what happens with tomboys or tom girls.... I think the thing is that gender is a lot more complex that the genitalia we are born with. Societies expectations play a large part too. It's something I have mulled over many many times. Because often when you ask a trans individual they will identify with the stereotype of the other gender, which I have always found to be society generated. But it's possible that it is just over emphasised because of a perceived lack in themselves of being that sex.

Yeah, the concept of gender as a whole is very interesting to me. Biologically speaking, my sex is female. But I have never really been drawn to a large part of girly things. I don't necessarily think I'm "masculine" enough to be considered a tomboy right now, though I may have been as a child. The thing is that I don't recall ever wanting to be a guy...because if I want to do something that is masculine, I do it. It doesn't really matter to me if it's a "boy" activity or a "girl" activity. I guess I had never really ever thought of the concept of "gender" before. Up until a certain age, I had always thought that "sex" and "gender" were synonyms. So the first time I heard of someone feeling as though they were the opposite gender, it baffled me. A boy likes wearing dresses? That's totally fine. I just couldn't understand why they would call themselves a girl.

I apologize if anyone out there finds this offensive. This isn't my intention. Rather, I'm trying to describe why I can never truly understand what it is to be transgendered.

trans people have body dysmorphia.

Yes, what's your point? We understand that transgendered people and homosexual people are different.

 

[/DG/]

The brain is the primary sex organ. People forget this often. Your genitals are almost arbitrary. The hormone interactions and levels within your brain are the chemical determinant of sex, to the point that if you cut the genitals off the person will still be that sex.

Well, it depends on what you mean here. Yes, our brain is going to tell us who we are attracted to, but testosterone, a chemical mostly secreted by male sex organs, has a significant effect on how much sex people desire. If you cut off a man's testicles, he won't be able to produce testosterone and thus will experience a significant drop in sexual desire and perhaps even stop desiring it altogether. Conversely, female body builders that take anabolic steroids (similar to testosterone) tend to experience a significant increase in libido.

dude... you know that the bible doesn't define who is a christian... individual christians decide who gets to join their special club like a fraternity or something.

you just got blackballed it seems sorry, you're now stuck being a heathen because someone said you can't sit with them

jesus is way exclusive like that, you know

 

[Riva]

https://www.gaychristian.net/justins_view.php
Six reasons why the Bible is not against gays
Fifteen theological arguments for gay marriage : Changing Attitude

Just a few.

Read them. Wasn't convinced at all.

There are more convincing arguments to be anti homosexual and consider homosexuality as a sin (esp sex) than those (ones you posted) in favour of it in the bible (and most other religious books).

I am in favour of same sex marriages though.

Not all Christians are like this, guys...I promise.

Some people give us a really bad name, but there are plenty who are accepting. All of this just makes me really sad.

This is true. However, it depends on where you live. The western world has become more and more tolerant especially of freedom of choice; and therefore it is usually in the west (US, Western Europe) the Christians have become more tolerant (not sure about Australia and New Zealand). Everywhere else Christians aren't usually quite tolerant (esp in Africa) and are adamantly against same sex marriages and homosexuality. They are usually quite intolerant of other religions too going to the extent of destroying (vandalizing) non-christian religious sites or if their influence isn't strong enough to destroy these sites, absolutely refusing to even visit sites that are non-Christian but are considered historically significant (some of which are UNESCO heritage sites).

Jesus sounds like a tolerant person. My favourite moment/advice in the bible was when Jesus said "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." That for me is how Christians should be. But rest of the bible is not so tolerant (esp regarding this subject).

Yes you are right when you say that she is giving a bad name to Christians (especially western tolerant Christians) but technically she isn't giving a bad name to Christianity. Christianity is against homosexuality (even the new testament, though I can't remember much of it) period.

 

[Coriolis]

Cut and run. Typical. Classic. Continue to ignore all of the issues pointed out, ignore all the points brought up, and continue to life in the false illogical world you have created that doesn't reflect how reality actually is. What a wonderful way to win over everyone and get respect.

Just as well. When someone refuses to be convinced by evidence and reason, and others refuse to abandon the same, there isn't much more to be said.

 

[tkae.]

Well, it depends on what you mean here. Yes, our brain is going to tell us who we are attracted to, but testosterone, a chemical mostly secreted by male sex organs, has a significant effect on how much sex people desire. If you cut off a man's testicles, he won't be able to produce testosterone and thus will experience a significant drop in sexual desire and perhaps even stop desiring it altogether. Conversely, female body builders that take anabolic steroids (similar to testosterone) tend to experience a significant increase in libido.

You're assuming that transexuality has anything to do with sexual attraction or desire. I'm not sure why you're making such a bad assumption.

 

[/DG/]

You're assuming that transexuality has anything to do with sexual attraction or desire. I'm not sure why you're making such a bad assumption.

When in the world did I say that? Please enlighten me.

 

[Betty Blue]

The brain is the primary sex organ. People forget this often. Your genitals are almost arbitrary. The hormone interactions and levels within your brain are the chemical determinant of sex, to the point that if you cut the genitals off the person will still be that sex.

Saying that gay people have a brain similar to females is... I don't even know.Are you getting that from the research done in Stockholm? We haven't concluded anything about that. There's no way to know if the similarities are genetic or neuroplastic. That is, there's no way to know that gay men and women have similar language skills compared to straight men and lesbians because they were born that way or because society steered them towards activities that led them to develop those skills. We don't know enough to understand the implications of those findings.

I have a man's brain hormonally. I am a male. I just happen to like sex with my boyfriend and think vaginas are disgusting. I wouldn't go near one if you paid me to. We don't understand the basis of homosexuality, but being transgender involves the hormonal composition of the brain. We're much more confident about that than any root of homosexuality.

Interesting to think about. What criteria does the brain use to decide male and female? It's interesting because you then go on to say you just hate vaginas. So is it purely aesthetic? For example would you be interested in a female brain with male genitalia?

Just to be clear it doesn't bother me what genitalia someone has, I am more interested in who they are as a person. I think this falls under the category of pansexual but i'm not rely into labels. I think the reason I am often not attracted to trans people is because they usually identify so strongly with being stereotypically male or female. I find it difficult to get along with girly girls or macho guys... so theres that. I probably find androgyny far more attractive though.

 

[tkae.]

When in the world did I say that? Please enlighten me.

Well, it depends on what you mean here. Yes, our brain is going to tell us who we are attracted to, but testosterone, a chemical mostly secreted by male sex organs, has a significant effect on how much sex people desire. If you cut off a man's testicles, he won't be able to produce testosterone and thus will experience a significant drop in sexual desire and perhaps even stop desiring it altogether. Conversely, female body builders that take anabolic steroids (similar to testosterone) tend to experience a significant increase in libido.

There's no reason to be discussing libido and sexual desire with regards to transgender people. And as to your other point, not all testosterone is produced in the testicles. Some is produced in the adrenal glands, which is why women have testosterone without testicles. Certainly enough for women to have the neurological hormone composition of a man.

 

[/DG/]

There's no reason to be discussing libido and sexual desire with regards to transgender people.

??????

This thread is about sexuality and transgenderism. Did you think it was only about the latter?

You only said the word "sex" in your post. Did you think I could suddenly read minds and know that you were also talking about gender? ...Hence my "it depends on what you mean here."

And as to your other point, not all testosterone is produced in the testicles. Some is produced in the adrenal glands, which is why women have testosterone without testicles. Certainly enough for women to have the neurological hormone composition of a man.

Yes, I am aware. Thank you for telling me what I already know.

 

[Riva]

You're assuming that transexuality has anything to do with sexual attraction or desire. I'm not sure why you're making such a bad assumption.

Good point regarding transsexualism. It's not about sexual attraction, it's about gender identity.

 

[/DG/]

Good point regarding transsexualism. It's not about sexual attraction, it's about gender identity.

Again, I did not say that it had anything to do with sexual attraction. Please see my above post.

 

[Riva]

Again, I did not say that it had anything to do with sexual attraction. Please see my above post.

No no, I didn't say you did either. I just said I agreed with the point he made regarding trans to be a good point.