Game of Thrones!

[ceecee]

Harrenhal melted under dragon fire. Stone is little better than ice in that situation. Plus that fire had a bluish tint to it. Not normal dragon fire anymore I'm guessing.

And that's how we get A Song of Ice and Fire.

Sorry I don't know how to put everything in a hide the spoiler format. Honestly though, why would anyone read a GoT thread if you haven't been caught up? I stayed away a few times having seen a few episodes late.

Highlight everything you write and click the ? tag above for the spoiler format.

I usually do this because I almost always reply the night of the episode but beyond that, I feel if you aren't caught up and come to read, you're on your own.

 

[Totenkindly]

Harrenhal melted under dragon fire. Stone is little better than ice in that situation. Plus that fire had a bluish tint to it. Not normal dragon fire anymore I'm guessing.

And that's how we get A Song of Ice and Fire.

Sorry I don't know how to put everything in a hide the spoiler format. Honestly though, why would anyone read a GoT thread if you haven't been caught up? I stayed away a few times having seen a few episodes late.

We usually just have given folks 24 hours as a courtesy... but yeah, realistically people should not be reading the thread for the show unless they have seen the latest episode; it's only asking to have the plot spoiled.

In the past there were a lot of folks wanting to talk about old episodes because they were still binging the series to catch up to the latest season, without seeing the new episodes, and all that discussions typically got interwoven in the thread. Now there are seven seasons of episodes and people could be at any stage of viewing, wanting to discuss things that happened before but not see stuff that happened after their current catch-up point.

 

[Riva]

Questions:

- Why did Tyrion look upset about Jon and Danny having sex; was he planning on marrying Danny? He should be happy they are getting closer together. I hope he wouldnt betray Danny and Jon

- Agon? Seriously Martin? Jaehaerys sounds much better. Makes sense to name Jon after Jaehaerys I Targaryen too. Okay that was was a complaint, not much of a question.

- I am glad Jamie broke away from Cercei. But where was he going and would he be of any use without an army? Could the theory be right that he is the Prince that was promised instead of Jon or Danny as we expect. If not why are the writers sending him to wherever without an army, unless he is someone who could actually do a lot of damage like what he expect the prince that was promised could.

General comments -

- Haha at littlefinger. He was smart but was getting too ambitious. He was given Harrrenhall, yet he wanted more. Too much dude. I am glad the Starc sisters saw what he was trying to do. If so why did Sansa sent Brianne away? Maybe to show littlefinger that she believes him. Perhaps Bran brought them together. I love it when Bran reveals stuff. 'Oh hey you put a knife to my father's throat.'

I didnt expect Baelish to die like that. Nice to see a surprise death that was pleasant for a change. Wouldnt have been surprised if he was working with the Night's king. Lolz. Being cunning could take you only that far.

- So Sam is still on Jon's side. He read heard the infor his woman was saying - though it didnt look like it during that scene -. I wonder whether he would be happy to meet Danny.

 

[Beorn]

Well, Tyrion typically is (1) rational and (2) above board and (3) strives to preserve balance. But yes, they hammered home that, regardless of how Tyrion and Cersei felt about each other, Tyrion loved the two younger Baratheon kids [actually just "Lannister" kids], and they cut away right after Tyrion realized she was pregnant again. I would have trouble believing Tyrion would dick over Daenerys so blatantly, considering he is a big picture thinker and believes Daenerys is the better ruler for Westeros; however, it's possible there was some kind of "deal" swung... which Cersei seemingly backtracked on immediately.




... the Mountain needs to get in some clobbering time. Aside from his insinuated assault on poor Septa Unella (gaaa), he hasn't gotten to crush anyone for a few seasons now. Now, robbed twice in one episode! What's the use of having a hulking zombie bodyguard if he doesn't get to crush your enemies?

There's also the question of whether Tyrion has grown self-righteous at all. I mean, why not? He's the one that had to keep the Queen in check. Why shouldn't he be king?

Ok, now time for...

PREGNANCY SPECULATION!

Will Dany and Jon have a twin set of a boy and girl?
Will Cersie be killed in pregnancy by the birth of her (younger) son?
Will he be a dwarf?!?!?!?!?

 

[Forever]

Petyr: I heard Daenerys is really pretty.

Sansa: What does that have to do with anything?

...

Sansa: you betrayed me.

Petyr: Sansa! I love you....

*Petyr dies*

 

[Forever]

Problem with Ser Gregor: Too scary to do anything.

Your looks are enough, thank you See Gregor. Said Queen Cercei makeshiftfully

 

[Totenkindly]

Game of Thrones finale recap: Season 7, Episode 7
Hibbert has some decent insights. I particularly like his commentary on Cersei and the one rule that she apparently refuses to break.

Links about a particular character's demise:
Game of Thrones actor on shocking season 7 finale death
Game of Thrones showrunners explain that finale death





I think the scene with Tyrion looking on disturbed in the background (or at least melancholy) suggests something went down off-camera between him and Cersei, and he knows something that the others don't that is leaving him mournful (although whether that is something new or just what we learned in the episode about Cersei's true intentions, that remains to be seen).

 

[Beorn]

I was re-watching the trial and execution of the very special character this last episode and it reminded me of one of my pet peeves about the show.
NOBODY EVER CLEANS THEIR SWORD OR DAGGER AFTER THEY'VE BLOODIED IT AND BEFORE THEY'VE SHEATHED IT!

I think it's reading Gene Wolfe that's made me focus on this mistake. Severian always cleaned his blade.

I think the scene with Tyrion looking on disturbed in the background (or at least melancholy) suggests something went down off-camera between him and Cersei, and he knows something that the others don't that is leaving him mournful (although whether that is something new or just what we learned in the episode about Cersei's true intentions, that remains to be seen).

I think it's him thinking about the past and future. The differences between his horrible family and the goodness of Jon and Dany. The mournfulness comes from the fact they aren't his family and he still loves his real family. Of course if there is more to it it might be that he sees Cersei's child as a new hope for the Lannisters. Dany's father was a monster and yet she turned into a wonderful leader. Why couldn't the newest Lannister redeem the family name? What if Cersei was smart enough to plant these ideas in his head?

 

[Totenkindly]

I think it's him thinking about the past and future. The differences between his horrible family and the goodness of Jon and Dany. The mournfulness comes from the fact they aren't his family and he still loves his real family. Of course if there is more to it it might be that he sees Cersei's child as a new hope for the Lannisters. Dany's father was a monster and yet she turned into a wonderful leader. Why couldn't the newest Lannister redeem the family name? What if Cersei was smart enough to plant these ideas in his head?

He had been talking to Dany just an episode or two back about "who will look after things once you are gone?" Who will be the ruler if she dies? She didn't want to pursue that course of thinking. Maybe Tyrion did. If Cersei has a baby but Dany is sterile, then there would need to be someone in line of succession. Maybe Tyrion sees himself as the guardian of any child Cersei has, if she dies and Dany takes the throne, and he plans to raise her child and he has promised that child would become the next ruler after Dany.

But now Jon and Dany are going at it like rabbits, and if Dany is not sterile and conceives... now we have a problem.

Of course, Cersei didn't plan to uphold the agreement anyway.

 

[ceecee]

I was re-watching the trial and execution of the very special character this last episode and it reminded me of one of my pet peeves about the show.
NOBODY EVER CLEANS THEIR SWORD OR DAGGER AFTER THEY'VE BLOODIED IT AND BEFORE THEY'VE SHEATHED IT!

I think it's reading Gene Wolfe that's made me focus on this mistake. Severian always cleaned his blade.

I think it's him thinking about the past and future. The differences between his horrible family and the goodness of Jon and Dany. The mournfulness comes from the fact they aren't his family and he still loves his real family. Of course if there is more to it it might be that he sees Cersei's child as a new hope for the Lannisters. Dany's father was a monster and yet she turned into a wonderful leader. Why couldn't the newest Lannister redeem the family name? What if Cersei was smart enough to plant these ideas in his head?

Possibly yes. He's very concerned about secession planning. Plus I don't know that Tyrion is very convinced that Dany can't have children. Does anyone actually know about Jon? Can he father any since he died and came back to life? I don't know.

 

[Flâneuse]

I saw the twist with Arya, Sansa, and Littlefinger coming from a mile away, but liked how it went down anyway. Littlefinger thought he could mold Sansa into what he wanted (someone who would play the game for him), but in the end she'd seen through him, had enough brains and backbone to not give into his manipulations, and ended up using what she'd learned against him. I love how, though she’s learned to play the game from Baelish, she has not become heartless and entirely self-serving like him, but instead chooses to play the game for the good of her family. She's been my favorite character for a while now and I’ve loved her transformation from a naive little girl in S1 to the level-headed leader and strong person she is now.

Oh yeah, and Arya’s cool too. But Arya’s always been a courageous badass, and I tend to gravitate more to characters who transform from weak to strong. Speaking of which, I loved Theon’s scenes in this episode, especially the moment when Jon tells Theon that Ned is still a part of both of them, and how this helps give Theon the courage to go back for Yara and stand up against what’s-his-face when he tries to stop him.

Although I’ve really enjoyed watching this season, overall it seemed a bit too, er...happy for this series. Sometimes it started to feel less like Game of Thrones to me and more like a conventional fantasy saga (but with way more cursing, nudity, and screwed-up familial relationships, of course.) It seems like most (or at least many) of the plot threads are progressing exactly the way we the audience want and expect them to, in contrast to seasons 1-6, where we were always getting hit with events we either dreaded or didn’t see coming. I strongly suspect the final season will be just as fan-servicey as this one was, but I'm hoping the writers go for a bittersweet ending instead of a happy one.

 

[Totenkindly]

I saw the twist with Arya, Sansa, and Littlefinger coming from a mile away, but liked how it went down anyway. Littlefinger thought he could mold Sansa into what he wanted (someone who would play the game for him), but in the end she'd seen through him, had enough brains and backbone to not give into his manipulations, and ended up using what she'd learned against him. I love how, though she’s learned to play the game from Baelish, she has not become heartless and entirely self-serving like him, but instead chooses to play the game for the good of her family. She's been my favorite character for a while now and I’ve loved her transformation from a naive little girl in S1 to the level-headed leader and strong person she is now.

Oh yeah, and Arya’s cool too. But Arya’s always been a courageous badass, and I tend to gravitate more to characters who transform from weak to strong. Speaking of which, I loved Theon’s scenes in this episode, especially the moment when Jon tells Theon that Ned is still a part of both of them, and how this helps give Theon the courage to go back for Yara and stand up against what’s-his-face when he tries to stop him.

Although I’ve really enjoyed watching this season, overall it seemed a bit too, er...happy for this series. Sometimes it started to feel less like Game of Thrones to me and more like a conventional fantasy saga (but with way more cursing, nudity, and screwed-up familial relationships, of course.) It seems like most (or at least many) of the plot threads are progressing exactly the way we the audience want and expect them to, in contrast to seasons 1-6, where we were always getting hit with events we either dreaded or didn’t see coming. I strongly suspect the final season will be just as fan-servicey as this one was, but I'm hoping the writers go for a bittersweet ending instead of a happy one.

Agreed with all that.

Also, I really like that scene with jon and theon. I thought both were spot on, character-wise, and I liked how Jon did not provide any easy answers for Theon aside from just reminding him who he was. But if Theon wants to change his life, it's up to him.

(Again too, at least the book versions of these characters, they're not very old...It's easy to look at these characters esp after all they have been through as if they have some kind of assurance in life, but they don't know what's coming in the future as much as we don't, and they're all still trying to figure out their lives and live as best they can and don't know if they will die tomorrow.)

 

[Beorn]

It's just not a good thing to think too much about the goings ons at Winterfell lately.

Mainly because of the presence of Bran. Him being there makes Sansa seem much less impressive and Little Finger waaaaaaaay dumber than usual. I guess maybe there was some question as to how much he would use his knowledge to further help his family now that he seems to have turned into a totally new person. But, that doesn't explain Littlefinger's stupidity. He should have been gunning for Bran, not Arya. Strategically, Arya isn't even a threat unlike Mr. Practically Omniscient.

 

[burningranger]

He did try, but Bran gave him the chaos is a ladder line and he realized who he was dealing with.

Them INTJs get all the hate but they are truly the salt of the earth. GoT will never be the same without the Prince That Was Promissed. I love you Littlefinger, you didn't deserve this shitty death

If anyone has read the books, can you give me the short version of Littlefinger's arc past throwing Sansa's aunt out the moondor in the Veil?? I don't want to read the books, just want to get a rough idea of where GRRM differed from the show in terms of his arc. Fanks

 

[Totenkindly]

The books are not caught up with the show anymore. I'm not sure where Littlefinger is in the books. I mean, isn't Stannis technically still around in the books, as far as they've gone? And Jon either was on the verge of being creamed by the Night's Watch or had just barely already been creamed, and so on.

That's how much further the show is ahead of some of the book plotlines. There's at least twenty characters according to GRRM who are still around in his story who are no longer around on the show. They might have a very different fate in the books when he finishes them or maybe the same basic outcome but through different means.

It'll be interesting to see what gets released in the Winds of Winter or whatever it's called, when it finally does come out (maybe next year?)

It's just not a good thing to think too much about the goings ons at Winterfell lately.

Mainly because of the presence of Bran. Him being there makes Sansa seem much less impressive and Little Finger waaaaaaaay dumber than usual. I guess maybe there was some question as to how much he would use his knowledge to further help his family now that he seems to have turned into a totally new person. But, that doesn't explain Littlefinger's stupidity. He should have been gunning for Bran, not Arya. Strategically, Arya isn't even a threat unlike Mr. Practically Omniscient.

Or barring that, I figured as soon as he heard "Chaos is a ladder" from Bran, he should have been getting the hell out of dodge. I'm kinda surprised he stayed around to keep trying to play the Stark sisters off each other. I mean, men like him do not survive long if they ignore their paranoia -- it's one of the things that keeps them alive, sensing when events could turn on them.

And you're totally right. Arya's just a girl with a sword. At least Sansa has power under her command. But Bran was the unspecified threat with a vast potential to derail his plans.

It's not a lot different than RPGs, lol. Always shoot the wizard first, if he's fresh; the fighter is just a guy with a weapon.

 

[Totenkindly]

[MENTION=34788]burningranger[/MENTION]:

This shares a pretty decent general synopsis of the character arcs otherwise at the end of GRRM's last published GoT book (Question 4), including Baelish, plus links to the 11 chapters or so of the upcoming book that have been released in some form on the Internet (Question 3).

The Winds of Winter, explained: what we know about the next Game of Thrones book - Vox

The show mostly passed by the various book arcs anywhere from the end of Season 5 or so through the first half of Season 6 (?). So we're anywhere from 1.5 - 2 seasons off book now. From later in the article:

...(Benioff and Weiss said in an interview with Deadline that they were really making things up from scratch in season six, "other than a few key things.")

 

[Qlip]

This article is fun: Game of Thrones season 7: each character's strategy, ranked by political science - Vox

I’ve argued before that the best way to think about the White Walkers, from the human point of view, is as a threat akin to climate change — a massive collective threat that humans were ignoring in favor of petty internal squabbling. Jon, to his immense credit, is the only leader who recognized the enormity of the threat early enough to try to rally others to stop it. He’s kind of a Westerosi Al Gore, only he succeeded in getting to run a country.

A week and a day ago I signed up for a free HBO Go trial through Hulu, watched all of season 7 and yesterday I cancelled it. I feel like the Littlefinger of streaming.

Random thoughts:

Another badly thought out moment when the turned dead attacks Cersei, gets within 2 foot of her, and Ser Gregor does nothing.

I certainly hope that the writers don't think they can scandalize us with Aunt/Nephew incest when they've spend 6+ years desensitizing us to much worse.

Can Winterfell get anymore badass. Sansa may well be Warden of the North when John finds out he doesn't have Stark blood, she has a seer and the best bodyguard in Westeros. This doesn't feel right, but it's what I wanted, they'll probably all die.

 

[Lexicon]

I haven't read anyone's reactions to the recent season, yet, so perhaps I may be repeating some folks, who knows. Will check on that later.

I've a [very tentative] pet theory for part of next season:

When the Army of The Dead attack Wintefell, the survivors may flee to The Vale. Arya will use Littlefinger's face to assume his identity in order to grant safe passage into/take charge of the Vale, since that creepy, weakling boy would be left in charge, otherwise. The Vale is extremely secure - that's been built up & noted so much throughout the series, that something's gotta go down, there. Perhaps the undead dragon will penetrate the area/destroy it.. or perhaps they can trap it there, somehow corner & kill it? Just some ideas, possibilities. Potential for some pretty epic scenes regardless of how things turn out, I think.


Also, I really, really want Cersei to birth a dwarf. The odds of the Genetic Defect Lottery are not on her side.

 

[ceecee]

This article is fun: Game of Thrones season 7: each character's strategy, ranked by political science - Vox



A week and a day ago I signed up for a free HBO Go trial through Hulu, watched all of season 7 and yesterday I cancelled it. I feel like the Littlefinger of streaming.

Random thoughts:

Another badly thought out moment when the turned dead attacks Cersei, gets within 2 foot of her, and Ser Gregor does nothing.

I certainly hope that the writers don't think they can scandalize us with Aunt/Nephew incest when they've spend 6+ years desensitizing us to much worse.

Can Winterfell get anymore badass. Sansa may well be Warden of the North when John finds out he doesn't have Stark blood, she has a seer and the best bodyguard in Westeros. This doesn't feel right, but it's what I wanted, they'll probably all die.

Best part - you can't argue because it's science.

 

[ceecee]

I haven't read anyone's reactions to the recent season, yet, so perhaps I may be repeating some folks, who knows. Will check on that later.

I've a [very tentative] pet theory for part of next season:

When the Army of The Dead attack Wintefell, the survivors may flee to The Vale. Arya will use Littlefinger's face to assume his identity in order to grant safe passage into/take charge of the Vale, since that creepy, weakling boy would be left in charge, otherwise. The Vale is extremely secure - that's been built up & noted so much throughout the series, that something's gotta go down, there. Perhaps the undead dragon will penetrate the area/destroy it.. or perhaps they can trap it there, somehow corner & kill it? Just some ideas, possibilities. Potential for some pretty epic scenes regardless of how things turn out, I think.


Also, I really, really want Cersei to birth a dwarf. The odds of the Genetic Defect Lottery are not on her side.

I love your pet theory.