Frustrating Desire?

[Not_Me]

What do you mean?

They go for immediate gratification, rather than what is better in the long run.

 

[Nicki]

They go for immediate gratification, rather than what is better in the long run.

Hmm could you give me some examples?

 

[Not_Me]

Hmm could you give me some examples?

Simple example when people take pride in following the latest trends. Their pride is unfounded. Conformity is not an achievement.

Buying status symbols such as very expensive items such as clothing, jewelery or cars are also achievements of dubious merit in most cases. I see no reason for them to feel so proud. They simply made a choice to spend more.

 

[Nicki]

Simple example when people take pride in following the latest trends. Their pride is unfounded. Conformity is not an achievement.

Buying status symbols such as very expensive items such as clothing, jewelery or cars are also achievements of dubious merit in most cases. I see no reason for them to feel so proud. They simply made a choice to spend more.

Thank you though I should try to achieve goals like that?

 

[violet_crown]

What would personal validation be like for an Fe dom?

There's a really great resource I'm gonna recommend to you called the Greenlight wiki. It's one of the best ones out there to help you understand the functions and how they work.

Fe is not exactly my strong suit, so I'm just gonna have to go with my theoretical understanding to answer your question. I'd assume that Fe-users would seek validation in regards to social value. Both in the sense of their worth in the society they live in (i.e., where they fit into the hierarchy), and validation in terms of the norms and rules of that society (i.e., how closely their beliefs/behaviors/ect conform to that which is considered socially acceptable).

I think that being an enneagram 3 is gonna entail a certain awareness that--on the surface at least--parallels that of an Fe-user. My belief though is that for an ENTJ 3w4 that social awareness is a means to an end rather than an end unto itself. So I guess my question for you is why do you identify with 3w4, and what motivates you to want to be famous?

How does Se help you?

Consider for a minute the strength particular to an ENTJ. Our whole set-up is geared towards defining concrete, measurable objectives (Te), and developing novel strategies to execute them (Ni).

Like I was saying before, Se's primary use for us is giving us feedback to help us understand whether the vision we've concocted via Ni is effective and grounded in reality.

In addition to feedback, teritary Se supports Te by allowing us to respond to things in the moment. Honestly, Te with Ni secondary is never going to be as precise as it is with Ni laser-guiding things in the dominant position. We need that tertiary Se to be able to improvise if things get off the rails so that we can still effect our desired outcome.

The reason that Se is necessary for us hinges on the novel aspects of our strategies. If you think about our sensor counterparts, they rely on having vast repositories of effective existing models at their disposal via Si. They're as a rule much more detail oriented because their effectivness relies upon getting as close as possible to an exact match amongst the models they're familiar with for their current situation. Ni doesn't work like that. While Te will attune you to the fundamental nature of how things relate to one another, it's Ni that allows you to manipulate those relationships by enabling a virtually unlimited number of perspectives on them. Some already considered and some never seen before. But since we're about practical execution, Se is what allows us to parse down what could be to what will actually work.

So, to summarize: Se balances (and sometimes bails) out Ni for us.

 

[Nicki]

There's a really great resource I'm gonna recommend to you called the Greenlight wiki. It's one of the best ones out there to help you understand the functions and how they work.

Fe is not exactly my strong suit, so I'm just gonna have to go with my theoretical understanding to answer your question. I'd assume that Fe-users would seek validation in regards to social value. Both in the sense of their worth in the society they live in (i.e., where they fit into the hierarchy), and validation in terms of the norms and rules of that society (i.e., how closely their beliefs/behaviors/ect conform to that which is considered socially acceptable).

I think that being an enneagram 3 is gonna entail a certain awareness that--on the surface at least--parallels that of an Fe-user. My belief though is that for an ENTJ 3w4 that social awareness is a means to an end rather than an end unto itself. So I guess my question for you is why do you identify with 3w4, and what motivates you to want to be famous?



Consider for a minute the strength particular to an ENTJ. Our whole set-up is geared towards defining concrete, measurable objectives (Te), and developing novel strategies to execute them (Ni).

Like I was saying before, Se's primary use for us is giving us feedback to help us understand whether the vision we've concocted via Ni is effective and grounded in reality.

In addition to feedback, teritary Se supports Te by allowing us to respond to things in the moment. Honestly, Te with Ni secondary is never going to be as precise as it is with Ni laser-guiding things in the dominant position. We need that tertiary Se to be able to improvise if things get off the rails so that we can still effect our desired outcome.

The reason that Se is necessary for us hinges on the novel aspects of our strategies. If you think about our sensor counterparts, they rely on having vast repositories of effective existing models at their disposal via Si. They're as a rule much more detail oriented because their effectivness relies upon getting as close as possible to an exact match amongst the models they're familiar with for their current situation. Ni doesn't work like that. While Te will attune you to the fundamental nature of how things relate to one another, it's Ni that allows you to manipulate those relationships by enabling a virtually unlimited number of perspectives on them. Some already considered and some never seen before. But since we're about practical execution, Se is what allows us to parse down what could be to what will actually work.

So, to summarize: Se balances (and sometimes bails) out Ni for us.

Thank you! Reading about Fe was definitely very interesting. I see. I identify with 3w4 because I've always wanted to be successful in life. My self esteem revolves around my achievements and skills. I have a fear of being a nobody. I also seek admiration not love like a 3w2 would. To be honest, I could care less about being loved, most definitely. I care much more about respect. I want to be famous because I want my opinions to impact people. I want people to actually listen to me and I also want to be remembered when I die.

That makes sense. Could you give me some examples?

 

[violet_crown]

Thank you! Reading about Fe was definitely very interesting. I see. I identify with 3w4 because I've always wanted to be successful in life. My self esteem revolves around my achievements and skills. I have a fear of being a nobody. I also seek admiration not love like a 3w2 would. To be honest, I could care less about being loved, most definitely. I care much more about respect. I want to be famous because I want my opinions to impact people. I want people to actually listen to me and I also want to be remembered when I die.

Sounds ENTJ to me.

That makes sense. Could you give me some examples?

Examples of what?

 

[Nicki]

Sounds ENTJ to me.



Examples of what?

So I'm definitely an ENTJ. How Se helps you personally? Like examples of that in your life?

 

[violet_crown]

So I'm definitely an ENTJ. How Se helps you personally? Like examples of that in your life?

Hmm. I guess it's hard to say as Se just sorta is for me. I know it influences my presentation. I'm fairly blunt and to the point generally. Maybe a little aggressive. But more than that I associate Se with a personal joie de vivre. The tertiary function is the relief function, so my sense of pleasure and the things that recharge me are very much rooted in Se. I'm highly tactile, and take a great deal of pleasure in the physical. Dancing, for instance, is one of my favorite activities.

Here's a good example of Se as a relief function. This past two weeks have been hellacious for me for a variety of reasons, and I've been feeling pretty mentally tanked. So last night I spent almost three hours cooking, and felt completely revived afterwards. Things like that which involve action and the senses just feel good to me.

 

[Nicki]

Hmm. I guess it's hard to say as Se just sorta is for me. I know it influences my presentation. I'm fairly blunt and to the point generally. Maybe a little aggressive. But more than that I associate Se with a personal joie de vivre. The tertiary function is the relief function, so my sense of pleasure and the things that recharge me are very much rooted in Se. I'm highly tactile, and take a great deal of pleasure in the physical. Dancing, for instance, is one of my favorite activities.

Here's a good example of Se as a relief function. This past two weeks have been hellacious for me for a variety of reasons, and I've been feeling pretty mentally tanked. So last night I spent almost three hours cooking, and felt completely revived afterwards. Things like that which involve action and the senses just feel good to me.

I see. I used to be blunt but no one respects blunt female teenagers, so I either try to put a twist in what I say to make it funny to others or I try to soften what I say with a compliment. I read quite a few etiquette books and online articles for help. I'm not physical in the slightest haha. What kind of dancing do you do?

What did you cook? Hmm I guess I can identify with that. When I'm stressed out, I either do arts and crafts or listen to music. Occasionally bake. I'm pretty into interior design and I like making my room look nicer for fun.

 

[Not_Me]

Thank you though I should try to achieve goals like that?

I hope not. But you probably will, until you succeed enough times to realize that they don't matter.

 

[Not_Me]

Thank you though I should try to achieve goals like that?

I hope not. But you probably will, until you succeed enough times to realize that they don't matter.

 

[Nicki]

I hope not. But you probably will, until you succeed enough times to realize that they don't matter.

But they seem meaningless... So what do I do regarding my own goals? My short term goals include getting straight As during the next 4 years of high school and becoming a National Merit Scholar but I'm not sure what my long term goals should be and that frustrates me.

 

[Not_Me]

But they seem meaningless... So what do I do regarding my own goals? My short term goals include getting straight As during the next 4 years of high school and becoming a National Merit Scholar but I'm not sure what my long term goals should be and that frustrates me.

All you need are short term goals. Very long term ones are questionable anyways. You will change your mind. You can't go wrong by continuing to pursue goals which gives you more choices in the future. That's what I do.

For now, getting good marks will allow you to choose any career you want later. If you choose a reasonably well paid one, money will give you the freedom to do the things you want without worries. I think you are on the right track.

What is "meaning" anyways? It's just a feeling of contentment. Feelings can be achieved in so many different ways.

 

[Nicki]

All you need are short term goals. Very long term ones are questionable anyways. You will change your mind. You can't go wrong by continuing to pursue goals which gives you more choices in the future. That's what I do.

For now, getting good marks will allow you to choose any career you want later. If you choose a reasonably well paid one, money will give you the freedom to do the things you want without worries. I think you are on the right track.

What is "meaning" anyways? It's just a feeling of contentment. Feelings can be achieved in so many different ways.

I get really bored if I don't have any long term goals to achieve... Hmm, I see, I guess that makes sense.