Frustrating Desire?

[violet_crown]

I feel like that. I love to organize and strategize but I don't know what now. And that's the problem. I just want something to achieve and work towards. I feel like I'm wasting time if I'm just focusing on doing what I like to do and "discovering myself." What exactly is my problem?

Again, I'm with you 100% here. Self-discovery is never a waste of time, however. Look, ultimately what you want to achieve is a vocation, a blending of work with personal passion. I did (and to some extent still do) what you apparently do: I held the things that I loved, that meant the most, but didn't make sense in a close and "private" kind of way. But the thing is those things may feel silly, but they're part of you, and--more to the point--you're capable of making them possible. Part of the reason knowing someone with better Fi use is valuable is that they pick up very readily on what's of value to you even when you don't feel it yourself. Sometimes I don't realize how much something means to me until it's pointed out to me, and I'm kinda like, "Oh so that's what that means."

Hmm I do have an INFP best friend.

Perfect. I'm sure they would be happy to help you with this.

Oh okay, I see. The thing is I don't want to be blinded by my morals. I still want to remain objective as much as I possibly can. I feel like I do use Fi to a certain extent as I have deeply held inner values but that's as far as it goes. I barely know what I'm feeling if it doesn't apply to my moral system nor do I have much of a sense of self.

Hmm. With this sorta thing, there really is no use for objectivity. You're going in the wrong direction if you decide what's the best vocation for yourself on an "objective" basis. It messes up the priorities, and you'll end up with something that sounds impressive but you end up one day and realize that's all it is (ask me how I know). The fact that you're asking these kinds of questions now says tremendous things about you, and also shows you're probably more self-aware than you realize. I was around your age when I decided on something for myself and spent almost ten years working towards it before I woke up one day and realized that it wasn't what I wanted. Don't let that happen to you if you can avoid it.

I wasn't entirely clear on what you meant by being blinded by morals, but what we're talking about right now goes a little deeper than personal code. That's an element of it, and it creates the parameters for what you ultimately decide, but it's by no means all there is to it. Again, there's no wrong or right here. It's just what brings you joy and gets you in your groove. It's the purpose you feel to be worth serving.

I might try that soon. I honestly don't know how to be excellent if I don't have anything to aim for. I see. I hope so. Thanks a lot for the advice, really, it was extremely helpful.

Anytime. I've been meaning to start a thread on integrating the inferior anyways. I'll give you a heads up when I do.

 

[Nicki]

Again, I'm with you 100% here. Self-discovery is never a waste of time, however. Look, ultimately what you want to achieve is a vocation, a blending of work with personal passion. I did (and to some extent still do) what you apparently do: I held the things that I loved, that meant the most, but didn't make sense in a close and "private" kind of way. But the thing is those things may feel silly, but they're part of you, and--more to the point--you're capable of making them possible. Part of the reason knowing someone with better Fi use is valuable is that they pick up very readily on what's of value to you even when you don't feel it yourself. Sometimes I don't realize how much something means to me until it's pointed out to me, and I'm kinda like, "Oh so that's what that means."

Hmm okay, that makes sense. Haha I feel you.

Perfect. I'm sure they would be happy to help you with this.

Definitely.

Hmm. With this sorta thing, there really is no use for objectivity. You're going in the wrong direction if you decide what's the best vocation for yourself on an "objective" basis. It messes up the priorities, and you'll end up with something that sounds impressive but you end up one day and realize that's all it is (ask me how I know). The fact that you're asking these kinds of questions now says tremendous things about you, and also shows you're probably more self-aware than you realize. I was around your age when I decided on something for myself and spent almost ten years working towards it before I woke up one day and realized that it wasn't what I wanted. Don't let that happen to you if you can avoid it.

I wasn't entirely clear on what you meant by being blinded by morals, but what we're talking about right now goes a little deeper than personal code. That's an element of it, and it creates the parameters for what you ultimately decide, but it's by no means all there is to it. Again, there's no wrong or right here. It's just what brings you joy and gets you in your groove. It's the purpose you feel to be worth serving.

Thanks. What were you working towards? Like when your morals blind you to anything else that could threaten what you feel/think. Hmm I see. What did you do to figure out what you enjoyed?

Anytime. I've been meaning to start a thread on integrating the inferior anyways. I'll give you a heads up when I do.

That's really great to hear. I'll definitely be reading that thread. Thanks.

 

[FemMecha]

It is, and I realize that and I've tried to ignore that desire in the past year but I always wake up wanting fame. I have absolutely no idea. I've been researching for quite a while, even ignoring things that might lead me to fame, but I haven't found any career that I liked.

Being famous is a way to have continual validation and feedback from others. It is others declaring your importance, seeing you as in some way more interesting than the general population. It means gaining continual social attention.

Do you currently get enough attention from other people, or do you tend to feel overlooked? When a person is very young and still gaining a sense of self, it can be helpful to have others validate you, to see you as you hope to see yourself because it is difficult to just call that up from within ourselves. A desire for fame is a desire for external approval to help us see ourselves as special and unique.

 

[Mole]

Moot

I see. But that wouldn't be true fame would it?

In your culture you make the basic moral distinction between true and phoney, while in my culture we make the same distinction between amusing and boring, so the question is moot.

 

[Not_Me]

I achieved the goals I had when I was a kid. They were worthwhile things, but what I've learned was that the feelings I thought I would have, did not really happen.

 

[Nicki]

I achieved the goals I had when I was a kid. They were worthwhile things, but what I've learned was that the feelings I thought I would have, did not really happen.

What were your goals?

 

[Not_Me]

What were your goals?

Get near top marks in high school.
Hooking up with a particular person I was obsessing over.
Live in a particular city
Earn X amounts of dollars.
Etc.

 

[Nicki]

Get near top marks in high school.
Hooking up with a particular person I was obsessing over.
Live in a particular city
Earn X amounts of dollars.
Etc.

Why for each goal?

 

[Not_Me]

Why for each goal?

In general, achieving them felt good momentarily only. They became "nothing special" afterwards. No goals are worth obsessing over at the expense of all else.

 

[Nicki]

In general, achieving them felt good momentarily only. They became "nothing special" afterwards. No goals are worth obsessing over at the expense of all else.

Why did you want to achieve them in the first place? I agree with you. I have no goals at the moment though and I feel aimless...

 

[Nicki]

I asked a few ISFPs for advice and I think I should listen to them until I develop a passion. Does that seem reasonable?

 

[Nicki]

I find it funny that you're an ENTJ and you're asking "us" what to do or if the way you think is "right," or if your decision is "right."

I don't trust my judgment if there's no one that agrees with me. I might be making a mistake.

 

[violet_crown]

Fe is what asks for approval. ENTJs are unfamiliar with Fe, in fact, I believe that Fe is the last function in the ENTJ function stack.

Extroverts tend to seek external validation, regardless of whether they use Fe or not. She's also 14. She'll properly not give a fuck when she's older.

Meanwhile, stop undermining people about their type when you clearly don't know your ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to typology.

 

[Nicki]

Fe is what asks for approval. ENTJs are unfamiliar with Fe, in fact, I believe that Fe is the last function in the ENTJ function stack.

I just want to know whether I'm doing something that might backfire on me. I'm borderline unhealthy though so that might explain things. Whenever I take cognitive functions tests, Fe is the fourth function in my stack. But Te's always my dominant function by a long shot with Ni being my auxiliary.

 

[Nicki]

Extroverts tend to seek external validation, regardless of whether they use Fe or not. She's also 14. She'll properly not give a fuck when she's older.

Meanwhile, stop undermining people about their type when you clearly don't know your ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to typology.

How do you tell the difference from an Fe-dom extravert and an extravert regarding external validation? I don't care really care about getting external validation from the people around me because I consider most of them unreasonable, impulsive, and over-sensitive (some adults are great though) but I do tend to seek external validation on the Internet in forums like these when it comes to my opinions and explanations as I assume a lot of you know more about the theory itself than I do.

 

[Nicki]

Not necessarily, especially when we're talking about Te. Te is there to question things, not to ask "am I right?"

Is that because I haven't fully typed myself?


[MENTION=15963]Aleda[/MENTION] not saying that the tests are wrong in your case, but they aren't very accurate. There's even a post somewhere around here discussing the validity of them.

I question the validity of things quite a lot if something doesn't make sense to me quite a lot though. I thought those were MBTI tests instead of cognitive functions tests? I identify much more with Te over Fe. I also relate to that Development of ENTJ children article on Personality Cafe.

 

[violet_crown]

Not necessarily, especially when we're talking about Te. Te is there to question things, not to ask "am I right?"

Yeah. The "knowledge" you've just demonstrated only serves to underline my point.

Is that because I haven't fully typed myself?

I have no opinion on that, but if it's the case its even more evidence in favor of my initial assertion. I just know from your posts that you tend to be full of shit. You seem to be the kind of dipshit to know just enough to make the mistake of believing he's actually got something to say. And worse with as little as you apparently know you still manage to be remarkably condescending with it.

The OP did not make this thread to discuss her type. And you bringing it up when it's frankly not even pertinent to the general thrust of the discussion in the smarmy way that you have is a dick thing to do that has nothing to do with Aleda and everything to do with your own fucking ego. The fact that you'd do it when you can't even work out your own type makes it all the more revolting.

 

[violet_crown]

How do you tell the difference from an Fe-dom extravert and an extravert regarding external validation? I don't care really care about getting external validation from the people around me because I consider most of them unreasonable, impulsive, and over-sensitive (some adults are great though) but I do tend to seek external validation on the Internet in forums like these when it comes to my opinions and explanations as I assume a lot of you know more about the theory itself than I do.

Aleda, seeking feedback to see if your approach to a problem or issue is effective is never wrong. The ENTJ problem solving style is as much in dialogue with reality as it is with theory. If you feel that forums are a pertinent source of information, then you should exploit them as much as you can. It doesn't sound like you're seeking personal validation for yourself like an Fe user would, so much as you're seeking validation for your approach. Those are very different things in my mind.

But honestly, and I can't emphasize this enough, you should always be seeking feedback and more information when trying something new. It's the only way to know whether what you're trying is working or not. We're not Si users who have some roadmap to build on. Additional input is gonna be the only way Se can insure the plan Ni has put together is staying on track.

 

[Nicki]

Aleda, seeking feedback to see if your approach to a problem or issue is effective is never wrong. The ENTJ problem solving style is as much in dialogue with reality as it is with theory. If you feel that forums are a pertinent source of information, then you should exploit them as much as you can. It doesn't sound like you're seeking personal validation for yourself like an Fe user would, so much as you're seeking validation for your approach. Those are very different things in my mind.

But honestly, and I can't emphasize this enough, you should always be seeking feedback and more information when trying something new. It's the only way to know whether what you're trying is working or not. We're not Si users who have some roadmap to build on. Additional input is gonna be the only way Se can insure the plan Ni has put together is staying on track.

Ah, I see. Oh okay then. What would personal validation be like for an Fe dom? I don't think I really ever seek personal validation because I honestly don't care although I do realize that the world's run by people so I follow social standards unless I disagree with something either because of my morals or because I think it doesn't make sense at all. I try to do that. Oh okay, that makes sense. How does Se help you?

 

[violet_crown]

And by full of shit you mean different opinion?

Nope. It's easy enough to recognize when someone's made a substantive contribution but is of a different opinion versus when someone's talking out of their asshole.

If not, which posts do you find to be full of shit? You can PM that if you want.

You're not worth the time it would take to look them up.

If you think you've got something to say, then you've got something to say. You may be wrong, but still - you've got something to say. And I'm not saying that I'm wrong, by the way.

Oh look. More smarmy meaningless bullshit. Quelle surprise.

This is a typology forum, which means that actions are at least somewhat tied with one's type. Therefore, bringing up one's type in a topic isn't a crime nor off-topic, nor a dick move. And her type has to do something with her, otherwise it wouldn't be her type.

This is in fact a typology forum, however a range of topics are discussed here. Some of which are typology related, and some of which have absolutely nothing to do with typology. But that's not really the point, and I'm not here to play some ridiculous Ti semantics game. Had you brought up typology in a way that had either been constructive or even germane to the subject at hand I wouldn't have called you on it. But since it basically appears that you had no other intention but to undermine the OP when all she's doing is asking for guidance it makes you look like a dick. I'm not sure how to break it down for you anymore than that. Though I recognize by now that the chance of you seeing that you're by any means at fault of anything (ever, most likely) are slim to none.

As for me working out my own type, my reply to you is in the thread in my signature.

Again, I can't make it any clearer that I couldn't give less of a shit what type you are.