[Fe] FJs, describe Fe as you understand it

[violet_crown]

Feeling for things on my own. When I think about issues, there is no "internal" feeling comes from within. I get it from external sources, and my inner logic helps me see what is the moral issue. I think Fe users lie if they say they aren't influenced by the people around them when it comes to moral issues. You hear that? While some may come from your own logic, ultimately we like to see what's best for everyone. Not necessarily always what is "true" like perhaps someone who has just left religion (maybe because the community didn't make the Fe user feel included or worthy in his/her role) would start supporting the liberal attitude of free sexuality to better support the environment, and forget the belief/idea that sex has a sacred or a strong moral meaning, but rather what do the people want? It's almost a cultural morality. I do get internal feelings from within once in a great while, but usually we are feeling what has been established by the public's opinions and values. You Fi users help us that way on issues that need to be addressed that are possible, like bullying, or hurting on the weak, it's a complex relationship. Fi supplies the morality, Fe filters and establishes. Kind of like in another way Ne supplies the ideas, Ni picks and develops the idea if considered worthy for the Ni user's focus. Te brings the goals and order, Ti helps improve the system. Se explores, Si picks.

That's not what I was saying.

It's like this: Fe works based off a "parliment" where the external world and all of it's many factors each have a seat. It's a team. They deliberate, discuss, and weigh out all this subjectivity in the fairest and most objective way that can be done. Then, the parliment votes. Depending on the vote, dictates how it's done. Sometimes a single piece will give a speech, and debate with another one. Others, that's not needed and a simple revote is given. Once decided, the commander makes it so.

It's the parliment that runs the show, the "leader" just listens to what they parliment says and makes it happen.

In otherwords, Fe is of many minds.

I think what I'm gathering from these responses is that the biggest difference between Fi and Fe is scope.

For an Fi-user, the "whole" is defined at an individual level, whereas for Fe it is defined at a group level. The way that an Fi user feels about the body is the way that an Fe user feels about the community, which is why they (Fe) users place less emphasis on individual opinion. Because you guys don't understand the individual as such, but like a drop of water in the ocean or something. So the concept of Fi probably seems very weird and narrow to you guys.

Is this a fair interpretation of what has been expressed so far?

 

[Yama]

[MENTION=23583]21lux[/MENTION]

I developed my inferior Fe, inadvertently, through serving and bartending. You want an Fe expiramental paradise? Get a job in service industry.

I realized I was people poor. I didn't understand most of their idiosyncrasies as a whole but realized I was the one who didn't and everyone else seemed to. I didn't like that.

Now, saying that, I'll never be a "natural". Still have a baby Fe.

Learning all that taught me confidence with any person/people I may have to talk to. It still takes effort, I'm just comfortable with the motions.

But reading through this thread is really cool because it reiterates how I viewed people skills while trying to develop them. (Not knowing at the time that it was Fe).

It's a good suggestion. I've worked 3 jobs in my life, all have been service related in different ways first was food service, the second was supplemental instruction (my favorite one, holding help sessions and being involved with people on more than a superficial level) and the third was customer service for a grocery store (which I was good at but found stressful--mostly because of management though. The customers were civil because I was good at what I did, and I once even had a woman who said she only came over because she "heard about the really nice customer service guy" from someone at a nearby gas station. I kind of take pride in that )

I think after college I want to go into a people-related job, because the trend implies that that's what I'm good at. I'm also getting a degree in sociology, which I think will help me. I'm still young. I think as I grow older my Fe will start to develop as I'm forced to interact with the world more--right now all I am doing is going to school so there's not much to do with it. I think I'd like to work in HR one day.

 

[Forever]

I think what I'm gathering from these responses is that the biggest difference between Fi and Fe is scope.

For an Fi-user, the "whole" is defined at an individual level, whereas for Fe it is defined at a group level. The way that an Fi user feels about the body is the way that an Fe user feels about the community, which is why they (Fe) users place less emphasis on individual opinion. Because you guys don't understand the individual as such, but like a drop of water in the ocean or something. So the concept of Fi probably seems very weird and narrow to you guys.

Is this a fair interpretation of what has been expressed so far?

I wouldn't say it was from my words, but I would say that is fair.

Fi user uses his/her own values as universal, as Fe receives values of the group and shares/protects it.

Although I'd like to point out, maybe this is just from me but you kind of need to have a bit of Fi to use Fe if that makes sense? I can't explain why I like and associate with some groups more than others. Perhaps perception comes into play, my Ni may be a strong indicator and parental upbringing in some ways, it's kind of hard to trace it back, it may be archetypal in fact... But maybe I am getting existential now so, I said enough.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

^^I think this type of description causes a bunch of mistypes

For real.

 

[entropie]

I think what I'm gathering from these responses is that the biggest difference between Fi and Fe is scope.

Scope as in o0 xD

 

[Starry]

For real.

I was trying to figure out how that can be explained or accounted for...because it's coming from somewhere but certainly doesn't fit my personal experience of Fe (holy shit no)

 

[entropie]

I personally dont trust people who talk about emotions too much, I am even equipped with pepper spray in case somebody does

 

[á´…eparted]

I think what I'm gathering from these responses is that the biggest difference between Fi and Fe is scope.

For an Fi-user, the "whole" is defined at an individual level, whereas for Fe it is defined at a group level. The way that an Fi user feels about the body is the way that an Fe user feels about the community, which is why they (Fe) users place less emphasis on individual opinion. Because you guys don't understand the individual as such, but like a drop of water in the ocean or something. So the concept of Fi probably seems very weird and narrow to you guys.

Is this a fair interpretation of what has been expressed so far?

Yes I would say this is very accurate.

 

[cascadeco]

I was trying to figure out how that can be explained or accounted for...because it's coming from somewhere but certainly doesn't fit my personal experience of Fe (holy shit no)

I work with a couple of ESFJ's, and they're both very different in terms of their personal values and likes/dislikes. Commonality is I work in a team environment, and as [MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION] mentioned, they're both keyed in on what they think is best for everyone as a team, what is fairest, and so on, and smooth functioning to get stuff done. vs Fi leadership style on my team are, well, I feel somewhat less 'hey everyone this is what we're doing' and will instead go from one person to the next and assess Ä«ndividually what's best to do, by person. The FP style might be more effective for some people due to individual needs /quirks being met, but the downside is things might on a team scale be more chaotic. vs with Fe leaders things might be less chaotic but there is also potentially more individual disgruntlement or individual strengths not being put into play. Things like that. I guess there can and will be disgruntlement from different people depending on the style, but yeah. That's what I've observed in my coffee shop team. This is super generalized, though, very broad, so I'm not saying FJ leaders on my team don't try to account for individual elements, as I think they do. It's just less of the focus -- just as FP leaders also have to keep the team as a whole functioning together, or they fail. /sort of derail.

 

[entropie]

Yes I would say this is very accurate.

And what about Fi people who are not delta quadra ?

They'd be pretty pissed

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I was trying to figure out how that can be explained or accounted for...because it's coming from somewhere but certainly doesn't fit my personal experience of Fe (holy shit no)

Do you mean how that stereotype can be accounted for? (If that's not what you meant, disregard the rest...) Same place the "N = intelligence" stereotype comes from? Maybe straight from the butts of people who need something to take pride in but can't be bothered to actually be something, on an individual level, to merit that pride?

Really though, it's a question worth asking. I'd be surprised if the answer had anything to do with actually asking Fe types/FJs though.

 

[entropie]

Do you mean how that stereotype can be accounted for? (If that's not what you meant, disregard the rest...) Same place the "N = intelligence" stereotype comes from? Maybe straight from the butts of people who need something to take pride in but can't be bothered to actually be something, on an individual level, to merit that pride?

Really though, it's a question worth asking. I'd be surprised if the answer had anything to do with actually asking Fe types/FJs though.

So you mean being N disqualifies for being someone on an individual level ?

 

[Z Buck McFate]

So you mean being N disqualifies for being someone on an individual level ?

Yes.

 

[entropie]

ok, given my inherit uncertainity you are right

 

[entropie]

Can I still make the music ? I mean being a hardline individual gets boring sometimes doesnt it ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hUcGxCNbpM

 

[Chrysanthe]

Even though my relationship with Fe and its position within my own functional stacking is quite debatable, (I may have starved my Fe from my childhood up to now, as it is just within the past few months that it has come to my own understanding that, yes, I do need people in my life in order to be satisfied at all and this is where my worth essentially comes from (besides coming to my own realizations about life which do bring meaning to me but still don't give me the energy that people do which makes life worth living. ) ) I won't finish the sentence because that unnecessarily long thought within parentheses probably has distracted you already so I'll just explain how Fe works in my life:

- The need to share experiences with others in order to fully enjoy myself. I'd rather watch someone play a video game than play something by myself honestly. (Though playing together is preferred. )
- Desire to align my words carefully to match my intentions for the listener, the resulting emotional reaction I want from the audience... do I want them to suffer and feel bad? I'll make sure to use words like "Disgusting excuse for a pomegranate" and "Filthy sheep" to portray my negative sentiments of that person.
- Tendency to not see specific personalities within a given crowd of people but rather how they act as a whole, which allows me to make judgements regarding how I might affect that whole if I were to come into contact with them. Since I am socially inept, I am very picky about what groups I feel comfortable approaching, but ideally I'd fit into every group.
- I completely disregard what personal ethics I may possess when there's a big group of people with their own conflicting opinions, since if I were to bring in another it would only create more unnecessary chaos, and so I just try and understand the thinking behind everyone else's and end up agreeing with everyone equally. It's actually unsettling when I can't understand another person's viewpoint, since it reflects poorly on my own ability to see different perspectives. At the same time though, I am internally stubborn and will probably not change my own opinions if I have come to a conclusion through thinking it through carefully and painstakingly... but I'll still find something in your argument I can agree with and might just let it be.
- I focus more on people's tone's and implications rather than interpreting the words they chose literally. I tend to find the commands of ExTJs to be overly demanding and aggressive even if they may be simple. I may be way more sensitive to words than most... but I see, "Take out the trash." as "TAKE OUT THE TRASH YOU LAZY INCOMPETENT PIECE OF SHIT!!!!!" if you don't say please afterwards. It makes a big difference lol.
- At least in the idealistic universe of my mind (realistically my social anxiety saying otherwise) I want to pursue a destiny that brings positive emotional change. I would love to heal other's suffering somehow... the idea of being involved with stuff like Massage Therapy and other alternative healing practices makes me happy. I almost convinced myself that I would be most suited for something like Computer Programming and Chemical Engineering... but now I see those choices as laughably wrong for me.

 

[Starry]

Do you mean how that stereotype can be accounted for? (If that's not what you meant, disregard the rest...) Same place the "N = intelligence" stereotype comes from? Maybe straight from the butts of people who need something to take pride in but can't be bothered to actually be something, on an individual level, to merit that pride?

Really though, it's a question worth asking. I'd be surprised if the answer had anything to do with actually asking Fe types/FJs though.

Yah, I mean, that description of Fe was put forth by someone that has INFJ listed as their type...and yet that would be all that would be needed to cause any of the FJs that I have encountered in my lifetime to incorrectly assume they were Fi. (Did you imagine the description was presented by an Fi individual? In Western culture there doesn't seem to be a great deal of pride in "group think")

 

[entropie]

Yah, I mean, that description of Fe was put forth by someone that has INFJ listed as their type...and yet that would be all that would be needed to cause any of the FJs that I have encountered in my lifetime to incorrectly assume they we Fi. (Did you imagine the description was presented by an Fi individual? In Western culture there doesn't seem to be a great deal of pride in "group think")

You mean he is Fe and doenst know about other cultures? OMG how could that be ?!?!?!

 

[violet_crown]

Yes I would say this is very accurate.

Ok. Follow up question: what's the deal with Fe and recognition/hierarchy?

Theoretically, if everyone is a part of one interconnected super entity, then why do Fe users care about status? Shouldn't everyone be on the same level?

On some level, Fi users feel the same about the "drop in the ocean" in how we relate to others. Our approach is more outside in. I think there's an intrinsic understanding of Fi as the soul and the soul as one drop of some ineffable greater thing that we're all connected to.

That's why we look inwards for empathy. It's not that we assume that our personal experience is universal per se, as [MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION] said, but that we're all essentially "one" in some cosmic sense. Turning inward brings us closer to that greater whole, and is a big part if why we take a fairly democratic approach to our worldview.

Again, no shade, just trying to understand. What is your take on how status and social hierarchy squares with that sense of connectedness at a group level?

 

[Starry]

You mean he is Fe and doenst know about other cultures? OMG how could that be ?!?!?!

Is it because of Fe?