[Fi] Fi -- Why does it drive you nuts?

[SillySapienne]

Poor you!!

Poor me!!!

Poor everybody!!!!

 

[murkrow]

turn on your radio and you'll be bombarded by NF.

most people are in search of relationships and NFs are the ones best capable of appreciating them!

NFs are great parents

NFs are great lovers

NFs don't get caught up in the silly things NTs get caught up in

being an NF is a good life, everybody loves you guys.

 

[SillySapienne]

turn on your radio and you'll be bombarded by NF.

most people are in search of relationships and NFs are the ones best capable of appreciating them!

NFs are great parents

NFs are great lovers

NFs don't get caught up in the silly things NTs get caught up in

being an NF is a good life, everybody loves you guys.

Apparently someone forgot to send you the memo, we, NF's, happen to be our own worst enemies.

We are attracted to focusing on both our personal as well as perceived societal shortcomings and we're determined to improve ourselves and the worlds in which we live.

We thrive off of struggle.

Now, what I really need is to get me some of that good cold NT apathy!!!

 

[murkrow]

Apparently someone forgot to send you the memo, we, NF's, happen to be are our own worst enemies.

Now that is definitely true, but I can't quit allocate that to NFs exclusively just yet. On the quest of self realization isn't everyone their own worse enemy?

We are attracted to focusing on both our personal as well as perceived societal shortcomings and we're determined to improve ourselves and the worlds in which we live.

Okay, the focus on societal shortcomings might be a little bit of a pain which I have certainly never felt, so I'll give you that one. But NTs suffer from a serious lack of awareness of those same things, which probably causes us just as much trouble as your hyper awareness does.

At least when you find people who really care for you you don't have to worry about societal shortcomings, the obliviousness to people's feelings I have will screw with me no matter what I do. (excepting hermithood, which would kill me.)

We thrive off of struggle.

I thrive off conflict, big deal.

Now, what I really need is to get me some of that good cold NT apathy!!!

Now, what I really need is that good warm NT ability to be genuinely happy!!!
:redface:

 

[JivinJeffJones]

most people are in search of relationships and NFs are the ones best capable of appreciating them!

I fail to see how this is going to make NFs any more valued in society.

NFs don't get caught up in the silly things NTs get caught up in

No, they get caught up in completely different (and often less lucrative) silly things.

being an NF is a good life, everybody loves you guys.

Bullshit. The world is run by ESTJs who tend to dislike NFs almost as much as NTs, and accord them less respect. Try being an NF male in a western society. Unless you live in France, you're going to have a pretty shitty time. NTs have so many positive stereotypes they can fit into (maybe less so for the ladies), and we all know how SJs love stereotypes. Logic and rationality are esteemed far above all manifestations of emotionality and values in Western culture.

 

[murkrow]

Who gives a shit if society values you, you can still find people who will value you.

NFs can be contented and NTs can't.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I really don't think feelers get the short stick from society....

AND

Who gives a shit if society values you...

Are you just trolling or have you forgotten what your original point was?

 

[murkrow]

Hm.

I had forgotten my point.


But it's possible for societie's rules to work for Fs (which they do) while still not getting any respect.

If NFs can come to a point where they aren't bothered by the SJ's feelings towards them then there's some nice possibilities for them.

 

[JivinJeffJones]

But it's possible for societie's rules to work for Fs (which they do) while still not getting any respect.

Possible, but not as likely. Are you more likely to eg employ/promote someone you respect, or someone you don't?

If NFs can come to a point where they aren't bothered by the SJ's feelings towards them then there's some nice possibilities for them.

I don't think you know what you're talking about. Maybe you could give me some specific examples of where society's rules favour Fs over Ts? The issue isn't so much about how NFs feel about what SJs think of them as how SJs' feelings about them will affect how they get treated.

 

[TenebrousReflection]

Looking back at a recent conversation where I asked advice of a friend, I think this may illustrate some of the frustration non-Fi folk have with us.

They made a recommendation that would make sense based on the circumstances I related to them, but in spite of the recommendation making sense and seeming like the logical practical thing to do, it just felt wrong to me due to how important certain things are to me (I'm not even sure if I could call it a value based issue either, its just "what feels like the right thing to do") that others may not see the same way. Their response to that was to the effect of "thats a good value to have, but don't you see how its holding you back and keeping you from finding what you want", and in my mind I was thinking "yes, I can see that, but you don't understand how important this is to me to follow through despite it not making sense - I need to follow what I feel to be right for me even if its actually wrong for me". Essentialy my sense of honor and right/wrong about somethign outweighed the practical benefits that following sensible advice should theoretically lead to.

 

[heart]

I don't think you know what you're talking about. Maybe you could give me some specific examples of where society's rules favour Fs over Ts? The issue isn't so much about how NFs feel about what SJs think of them as how SJs' feelings about them will affect how they get treated.

Absolutely. I'd like to know where all this NF love is. I'd like to tap into it.

 

[redacted]

fatty post

agree completely, you said it in a way i didn't have the eloquence to.

 

[Neuro]

Hi Im new :hi: I have been reading this thread with interest though.

I read somewhere ( maybe in Jung) that Fi types athough they have a lot of empathy have little understanding of the real emotions of other people. In some ways I think this is true. Fi is more interested in the archetype of feeling and is activated by events that fit the archetype just as Ni types are more interested in the archetype of intuition than a Ne- dom would be.
I think Fe types are better at dealing with real life feeling situations- they can respond to the situation as it is without imposing that underlying image onto what is happening.
As a Fi person mysef I sometimes overreact to an event because it is evoking deeper images (e.g. it strikes me as an exampe of justice truth suffering or whatever) and this may or may not relate to what the the person having the experience is actually going through. I have a lot of empathy for the person but I am sometimes at a loss about how to actually comfort the person. I usually just try to listen and be there.
For a non- Fi type I can see how this coud be frustrating.

 

[SillySapienne]

`
"We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly."

-Martin Luther King Jr.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

It should be noted that people who seek intimate relationships with Fis (been through that) will be frustrated because their values are difficult to figure out, and will be too hard to know what you can expect and what your partner expects, and how you can even expect them to react to you on daily basis. Given how mercurial they could be, this could put you through a state of constant anxiety as you'll probably feel like you're walking through a minefield where by some action that seems to you very insignificant you can turn the relationship around from all good to all bad.

Very frustrating for dominant Thinkers especially who yearn for the situation to make sense, and to be clear and simple.

When Fis values and emotional reactions are not clear, confusing or self-contradictory (which is often) Thinkers will strive to bring clarity to the situation. Fi will appear to be either wholly unwilling or unable to do so.

There is really no way to peace in such a relationship for a dominant Thinker. Fes will have a similar problem with Fis though for a different reason. Fes want to know exactly whats expected of them and what they can expect, and want the relationship to be as predictable as possible, as well as emotional expressions to be easy to read. (This is why they prefer conventional expressions, so its obvious to them what was expressed).

I have made this point earlier, but now exert myself to expound on the matter as I believe for the above to be salient reasons many people experience frustration with Fi.

Friends will experience a similar frustration to a lesser degree. Co-workers, because Fis tend to lack the drive for competence (lack of T) and have difficulty learning tasks that require tough-mindedness and aptitude for dispassionate problem solving. Many people at work will have a problem with the fact that they cannot speak their mind freely around Fis, as they are forced to walk on eggshells (without even clearly knowing what the hell will offend the Fi, and how to predict their possible reactions and enginneer ways to get around that), especially dominant Thinkers likely will experience this frustration because they tend to highly value candor. They will need to speak their mind freely, no matter who may be offended (from their perspective) in order to solve the problems they deem important to solve.

 

[SillySapienne]

Are you sure you are talking about Fi's, or just women in general?

lol

*joke*

 

[Orangey]

It should be noted that people who seek intimate relationships with Fis (been through that) will be frustrated because their values are difficult to figure out, and will be too hard to know what you can expect and what your partner expects, and how you can even expect them to react to you on daily basis. Given how mercurial they could be, this could put you through a state of constant anxiety as you'll probably feel like you're walking through a minefield where by some action that seems to you very insignificant you can turn the relationship around from all good to all bad.

Very frustrating for dominant Thinkers especially who yearn for the situation to make sense, and to be clear and simple.

I think I've experienced something similar to what you've described here, now that I think about it, although not with a partner or SO. I used to have a friend who I'm positive now was an INFP, and she suddenly stopped talking to me one day without explanation. I wasn't aware I'd done anything wrong or offensive, but she just wouldn't even talk to me anymore. I found out later (and secondhand) that I had offended her by laughing at a snide joke that someone else made about an acquaintance of ours (in my defense, it wasn't even really a mean joke. If someone had made it about me I'd have brushed it off or laughed). Apparently she thought this was totally unforgivable of me, and she never really spoke to me again after that except maybe sometimes casually or in group situations. I'm pretty sure she was an unhealthy "F" at the time, but I've just come to realize that it might be a perfect example of what annoys me about Fi when it's improperly employed. Of course, I could be way off base with this so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[SillySapienne]

I'm an Extrovert, so when I am turned off by someone's actions, I'll let that person know, but I can totally see how an introvert with strong Fi could witness someone doing/saying something that they find do be an atrocious, mean-spirited thing, and in turn becoming appalled to such a degree that they'd choose to steer clear of that person from that point on, indefinitely.

 

[Gabe]

It should be noted that people who seek intimate relationships with Fis (been through that) will be frustrated because their values are difficult to figure out, and will be too hard to know what you can expect and what your partner expects, and how you can even expect them to react to you on daily basis. Given how mercurial they could be, this could put you through a state of constant anxiety as you'll probably feel like you're walking through a minefield where by some action that seems to you very insignificant you can turn the relationship around from all good to all bad.

Very frustrating for dominant Thinkers especially who yearn for the situation to make sense, and to be clear and simple.

When Fis values and emotional reactions are not clear, confusing or self-contradictory (which is often) Thinkers will strive to bring clarity to the situation. Fi will appear to be either wholly unwilling or unable to do so.

There is really no way to peace in such a relationship for a dominant Thinker. Fes will have a similar problem with Fis though for a different reason. Fes want to know exactly whats expected of them and what they can expect, and want the relationship to be as predictable as possible, as well as emotional expressions to be easy to read. (This is why they prefer conventional expressions, so its obvious to them what was expressed).

I have made this point earlier, but now exert myself to expound on the matter as I believe for the above to be salient reasons many people experience frustration with Fi.

Friends will experience a similar frustration to a lesser degree. Co-workers, because Fis tend to lack the drive for competence (lack of T) and have difficulty learning tasks that require tough-mindedness and aptitude for dispassionate problem solving. Many people at work will have a problem with the fact that they cannot speak their mind freely around Fis, as they are forced to walk on eggshells (without even clearly knowing what the hell will offend the Fi, and how to predict their possible reactions and enginneer ways to get around that), especially dominant Thinkers likely will experience this frustration because they tend to highly value candor. They will need to speak their mind freely, no matter who may be offended (from their perspective) in order to solve the problems they deem important to solve.

So I noticed that you STARTED with a premise, instead of arriving there by logic, which is what you told us to do. Do as you say, not neccesarrily as you do, I guess.

So you supposedly went out with a Fi type for a while. By the way, that already puts everything you say into doubt; people (especially a spinner like you) can be expected to tell thier side of the story after a break up, there is reason anyone should believe a word you say about some Fi type you went out with.

As for the walking on eggshells part, that can be true, but just because you can't predict what will offend a Fi type doesn't mean thier values are contradictory or unclear. And you don't get around this by trying to predict thier reactions and 'engineer your way around it'. You say what ever you were going to in the first place, and then accept the cost of acknowledging differences in values (which would be much easier if you acknowledged your own subjective values. I suspect that at this point you use Fi unconsciously when you automatically value what you do and what you are about, without actually asking yourself if its' innately good or bad).

Fi's don't lack a drive for confidence, if they value what they're doing they'll try to get good at it.

 

[wedekit]

Well, I have watched my ENFP best friend and her INTJ boyfriend do pretty much everything that BlueWing described throughout this thread. He walks on eggshells around her. She cries often over the most trivial things, and he has no way of predicting when her feelings will be hurt or when they wont be. For example, one time she cried because he wouldn't sit next to her on the bed because he was doing stuff on the computer three feet away! I have no idea why she would possibly cry over something like that. Did she tell herself right before she asked him "If he really loves me, he'll get up and sit next to me!"? Why couldn't she pull up a chair and sit next to him if she wanted it so bad?

Another thing about people with Fi I have noticed is that they tend to have an initial distaste for personality typology. I think my ENFP best friend absolutely HATES the idea that some people out there are very similar to her, and so she believes that since it evokes negative emotions in her it can't possibly have any validity to it. She even told me once that she thinks self-help books are stupid; ironically she would benefit from reading a few of them about maintaining relationships and neuroticism, but that's just her.

There's my two cents.