Feelers ability to use emotions to get things immoral?

[Population: 1]

The strange thing is, my mom (infp) and my brother (esfj), don't even use their words to ask for what they are asking for. They always hint at what they want when all I want is for them to communicate in a direct, straightforward manner what they need or want from me. It's incredibly frustrating to have someone hint at what they want, expect you to figure it out, and then when you ask them what they want, they get mad at you for not knowing what they want and expecting them to tell you instead of playing mind games that unnecessarily complicate and frustrate the lines of communication. They both always pull guilt trips on people at the drop of a dime to the point where they can cause significant psychological harm to people, friends, family and never show any sign of remorse during the acts of guilt tripping people because they always view themselves as a victim, even when it's them victimizing others. They just can not, will not, no matter what admit to or take responsibility for doing things that hurt others because they need to view themselves as the most caring, kind and gentle creatures on this earth. They get competitive about being viewed as the nicest to the point where others around them wonder if it's a defense mechanism because they somehow feel they aren't nice enough

You are detailing the behaviors of two specific people. The question is where do the types end and personal tendencies and traits begin? It's obviously a very important question you want answered because they're your family. To be able to pinpoint a set of functions as the cause would certainly make people easier to figure out. People are MBTI types but they are so much more.

I know you and I don't get along but I do sincerely hope you can find a way to discover the information you seek. It seems it's going to be a task that is accomplished by looking at the people. The lives your mom and brother have lived- the events they've experienced- and genetics are going to heavily shape them as people. It's a personal journey you're going to have to take. A set of functions isn't going to answer the question of who they are as individuals.

 

[Scapegoated 4 fun]

You are detailing the behaviors of two specific people. The question is where do the types end and personal tendencies and traits begin? It's obviously a very important question you want answered because they're your family. To be able to pinpoint a set of functions as the cause would certainly make people easier to figure out. People are MBTI types but they are so much more. I know you and I don't get along but I do sincerely hope you can find a way to discover the information you seek. It seems it's going to be a task that is accomplished by looking at the people. The lives your mom and brother have lived- the events they've experienced- and genetics are going to heavily shape them as people. It's a personal journey you going to have to take. A set of functions isn't going to answer the question of who they are as individuals.

How do you know you and I don't get along? We've only interacted via text on online posts about personality types. That's no basis to assume we inherently "don't get along", after all we don't even know each other/anything about each other's interests/lifestyles/preferences etc.

 

[Population: 1]

How do you know you and I don't get along? We've only interacted via text on online posts about personality types. That's no basis to assume we inherently "don't get along", after all we don't even know each other/anything about each other's interests/lifestyles/preferences etc.

Well then we started off on the wrong foot? This was started with a title and premise I consider to be a generalization. I fired a salvo. You responded. I believe MBTI is a good way to explain tendencies not absolutes. I will still approach everyone here as what they are, an individual. Honestly I look at profiles in this order: Avatar, name, type (if listed). I often have to rescan the type after reading a comment. It's almost an afterthought. The Avatar can tell me something about the individual, then I assess the name. They're kind of like packaging or an advertisement. The comments are the product.

I certainly don't harbor an eternal enmity for you because we initially clashed. My initial assessment was we don't mesh as people. Which of course can be a fluid judgement subject to change.

 

[Neokortex]

Do you think feelers' tendency to use their emotions as a device to manipulate others is morally questionable? Why or why not? Explain your reasoning.

Who said feelers have a tendency to use their emotions to manipulate anyone? You have any polls, graphs, charts, etc to back that up or is this coming to us courtesy of imagination land?

I don't but I admit openly that I manipulate a lot, very often and I don't think there a lot of exceptions.

 

[Wunjo]

Aside some of the questions which were directed to you in this thread, which, in part contain a form of justification or just simply dodging a bullet, do you define what is immoral based on selfishness? If so, it is not about feeling or thinking, it is about a sense of grandiosity or a vindictive attitude towards the world or plain solipsism, which are not MBTI related, they are rather related to a form of personality development, which can not be the same on F types, or even, same types, if we were to pursue a logically agreeable statistic, of course.

 

[Population: 1]

I don't but I admit openly that I manipulate a lot, very often and I don't think there a lot of exceptions.

Individuals. Individual INFP's. Different, different values.

 

[Neokortex]

Individuals. Individual INFP's. Different, different values.

The more someone denies lying or manipulating, the more suspicious he gets. Like, c'mon.... man, c'mooon .... h-h-h

 

[Wunjo]

The more someone denies lying or manipulating, the more suspicious he gets. Like, c'mon.... man, c'mooon .... h-h-h

Okay, I think everyone gets it... You can be manipulative.

Cute, though.

 

[Population: 1]

Of course I'm not 100% honest who the fuck is? I'm as honest as I possibly can be. Of course there are times I don't tell the truth. Usually these are situations where 'the truth' will cause more harm than good though. I don't generally do nasty things and then find myself covering for having done them. If you can't fathom a person who doesn't go out of his way to play people like instruments than i don't know what to tell you. In the end I don't give a shit if you believe me or not. Honesty isn't a religion and I'm not trying to convert you.

Edit: Whoops. In response to [MENTION=29478]Neokortex[/MENTION]

 

[Scapegoated 4 fun]

Aside some of the questions which were directed to you in this thread, which, in part contain a form of justification or just simply dodging a bullet, do you define what is immoral based on selfishness? If so, it is not about feeling or thinking, it is about a sense of grandiosity or a vindictive attitude towards the world or plain solipsism, which are not MBTI related, they are rather related to a form of personality development, which can not be the same on F types, or even, same types, if we were to pursue a logically agreeable statistic, of course.

Yeah, but I still don't think it would be totally out of the question to assume that some types would be more prone to developing a sense of grandiosity or a vindictive attitude than others in a given environment.

 

[Scapegoated 4 fun]

...I believe MBTI is a good way to explain tendencies not absolutes....

Well then it wouldn't be unfair to question whether certain types would have more of a tendency to emotionally manipulate than others, would it?

 

[Population: 1]

Well then it wouldn't be unfair to question whether certain types would have more of a tendency to emotionally manipulate than others, would it?

I have a tendency to put shoot my self in the foot. As I've demonstrated here. I believe that's enough for one night.

 

[virtualinsanity]

We speak of our subjective experiences here and I think this debate is pointless.

1. How do we, as individuals 'decide' who is a thinking type or a feeling type?
2. Did you come to that conclusion based on emotions or ethics/values?

OP refers to 2 Feeling types they know who resorted to indirect ways to let them know they wanted something.
My Match: I've seen 2 ExTPs tell people they used Fe to emotionally manipulate Feeling types.
Were they really ExTPs? .. Are the OPs relatives really F types?
It cannot be known. That in and of itself makes this debate a sphere.
After that, for every F type you caught being emotionally manipulative to get what they wanted, I can pick out T types to match.
..but again.. Who are we to say is a 'true' T type?.. And what are you basing it on?
Pointless /Roundabout debate and not type related.

 

[Kanra Jest]

Immorality is a point of view. I'd say it depends on how harmful it is. But that's just me.

It's obviously not restricted to "feelers" though. Seems there's a slight bias here.

 

[Scapegoated 4 fun]

We speak of our subjective experiences here and I think this debate is pointless.

1. How do we, as individuals 'decide' who is a thinking type or a feeling type?
2. Did you come to that conclusion based on emotions or ethics/values?

OP refers to 2 Feeling types they know who resorted to indirect ways to let them know they wanted something.
My Match: I've seen 2 ExTPs tell people they used Fe to emotionally manipulate Feeling types.
Were they really ExTPs? .. Are the OPs relatives really F types?
It cannot be known. That in and of itself makes this debate a sphere.
After that, for every F type you caught being emotionally manipulative to get what they wanted, I can pick out T types to match.
..but again.. Who are we to say is a 'true' T type?.. And what are you basing it on?
Pointless /Roundabout debate and not type related.

the difference is, a thinking type will be able to identify the behavior in themselves and take responsibility for their actions, as the two ENTPs you mentioned did by admitting to engaging in the manipulative behavior(s).

- - - Updated - - -

Immorality is a point of view. I'd say it depends on how harmful it is. But that's just me.

It's obviously not restricted to "feelers" though. Seems there's a slight bias here.

"slight"

 

[virtualinsanity]

Do you think feelers' tendency to use their emotions as a device to manipulate others is morally questionable? Why or why not? Explain your reasoning.

Do you think it's morally questionable?

 

[Scapegoated 4 fun]

Do you think it's morally questionable?

Yeah, at least in a general sense.

 

[Scapegoated 4 fun]

Do you think it's morally questionable?

you?

 

[virtualinsanity]

you?

I think everything is morally questionable .. One mans trash is another's gold

 

[Wunjo]

Yeah, but I still don't think it would be totally out of the question to assume that some types would be more prone to developing a sense of grandiosity or a vindictive attitude than others in a given environment.

I am having a hard time believing that an xNTJ is saying that. First, you deliberately, almost aggressively accuse some MBTI types with an argument that has no logical coherence at all, after when this is pointed out and when I tried to tell you the thing is rather about personality development and not MBTI related, you say that "maybe" some other personalities are more prone to developing grandiose or vindictive behaviour, again, with no logical coherence between any of your assumptions. Basically, one can concur from the exchange of words between us; feeling types can be manipulative because they have a sense of vindictiveness, grandiosity when you are countering, or re-developing my argument, and according to your definition of selfishness and immorality, feeling types are vindictive and prone to grandiosity because they manipulate.

What you are doing is not debating, what you are doing is tautology based on constructed moral values.

Let's come to the statement that can feelers develop a sense of vindictiveness and grandiosity towards the world. I am afraid this again is not MBTI related. What causes these traits to develop in individuals may have genetic reasons, psychological reasons, developmental reasons and none of these three subjects are MBTI related, even when MBTI can be related to them, it is logically unsound if we were to think emotional traumas or chaotic upbringings do affect feelers more than thinkers or thinkers more than feelers, you may say that because of the "feeling" stuff, it'd affect feelers more, but be if that may be intuitively sound, you have no data or whatsoever in your hands, so unless you are a typology genius who is going to engender a flawless theory about the subject, (I hold a healthy dose of skepticism against that) the arguments that you are going to present here would be pretty ineffective.