Fe vs Fi (INFJ vs INFP)

[BadOctopus]

INFJ 6w5 makes more sense than anything. He's good at mimicking a lot of different types.... that's a Fe thing. He can get people on his side easily.

INTJs and ISTJs are more curmudgeony. Kullervo is more of a people person.

Thanks, love.

For what it's worth, I think INTJ is possible. The adherence to subjective values to the exclusion of outside opinions or established social mores seems rather Ni-Fi to me. (I can be the same way.)

 

[Kullervo]

Um wut? No regurgitated food from you first? What kind of girl do you think I am?

I vomit gold nuggets, it's part of my sex appeal.

PS. That was a sincere question. If you are confusing my intentions in this thread...like INTJ 6w5s are prone to do...then I will depart. If not I will consider what you wrote. Let me know.

Well, I didn't take you as sincere because I find it hard to imagine how anybody could consider me terrifying if they truly understood me. But I am a far better actor than I credit myself to be.

Here is a conspiracy theory: What if my entire personality on here is cleverly and deliberately contrived?

 

[Starry]

I vomit gold nuggets, it's part of my sex appeal.



Well, I didn't take you as sincere because I find it hard to imagine how anybody could consider me terrifying if they truly understood me. But I am a far better actor than I credit myself to be.

I don't think you are terrifying. Which is precisely why I don't think you are INFJ.

Likewise, I do not think you are a Sensor. I think you have strong e1 in your tritype which may lend itself to an ISJ feel.


As far as I am concerned you are INTJ 6w5.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Thanks, love.

For what it's worth, I think INTJ is possible. The adherence to subjective values to the exclusion of outside opinions or established social mores seems rather Ni-Fi to me. (I can be the same way.)

Maybe that's a Ni thing? I don't understand how Ni operates, thus making me ineligible for knighthood in that illustrious order. I just don't see any signs of Extraverted Thinkng in him at all, which is why I see him as an INFJ. He comes off as a charmer.

At any rate, he makes sense as a 6w5.

 

[Kullervo]

Maybe that's a Ni thing? I don't understand how Ni operates, thus making me ineligible for knighthood in that illustrious order. I just don't see any signs of Extraverted Thinkng in him at all, which is why I see him as an INFJ. He comes off as a charmer.

At any rate, he makes sense as a 6w5.

Do I have the fears and motivations of a core 6 (presumably a counterphobic one)? Can you, or somebody else, show me examples from my posts of what you deduce as me expressing them? Or at least rationalise your position a little more. So far I have the feeling that people are being lazy and stereotyping me based on a vibe I give out or views I've expressed, which they associate with a particular type. I am sick to death of that, it has been happening to me ever since I arrived here.

I would like the people who see me as an INTJ to do the same.

 

[Kullervo]

Hey I'm even going to help you guys out.

Enneagram stuff:

Unlike in MBTI, there are no forced choices. You are not either Ni dom or Ne dom. Rather, it is a matter of priority where people have many neuroses and for me, two are by far more dominant than the others. I will be interested to see which you feel is the most important. Here is a some good summary from PerC I posted in a Type Me thread a couple of days ago:

'Type Four - “I will be secure if I am unique.”
Basic Fear: That they have no identity or personal significance
Basic Desire: To find themselves and their significance (to create an identity)

Key Motivations: Want to express themselves and their individuality, to create and surround themselves with beauty, to maintain certain moods and feelings, to withdraw to protect their self-image, to take care of emotional needs before attending to anything else, to attract a "rescuer."


Type Six - “I will be secure if I am always aware of danger.”
Basic Fear: Of being without support and guidance
Basic Desire: To have security and support

Key Motivations: Want to have security, to feel supported by others, to have certitude and reassurance, to test the attitudes of others toward them, to fight against anxiety and insecurity.'

And a good thread on INTJ vs INFJ here:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/the-nf-idyllic/51476-am-infj-intj-quick-guide.html

 

[Starry]

Do I have the fears and motivations of a core 6 (presumably a counterphobic one)? Can you, or somebody else, show me examples from my posts of what you deduce as me expressing them? Or at least rationalise your position a little more. So far I have the feeling that people are being lazy and stereotyping me based on a vibe I give out or views I've expressed, which they associate with a particular type. I am sick to death of that, it has been happening to me ever since I arrived here.

I would like the people who see me as an INTJ to do the same.

It would save everyone a great deal of time if instead...you were to select examples from your posts that demonstrate you are anything other than an INTJ or 6w5. <-If not, then I lay before you your entire posting history. It is that obvious. And no I don't think people are being lazy. I think people have other things to do and think about...and may not be as attached to you seeing things for what they are as you presume.


You came here typed as INTJ 6w5...why the change?

 

[Kullervo]

It would save everyone a great deal of time if instead...you were to select examples from your posts that demonstrate you are anything other than an INTJ or 6w5. <-If not, then I lay before you your entire posting history. It is that obvious. And no I don't think people are being lazy. I think people have other things to do and think about...and may not be as attached to you seeing things for what they are as you presume they are.

The reason I suggest that is because I've elucidated on many aspects of my personality so far, and you are unconvinced by that - so I suggest that you spend some time looking through my posts outside this thread rather than me taking the time. You might get a broader feel for my personality that way.

People have treated me very provocatively in this thread. None of you have made a concerted effort to make a case for an alternative typing when challenged.

You came here typed as INTJ 6w5...why the change?

This will be my last post in here...

Well, for a start, like most posters in this thread I have learned more about typology during my time here. Do you consider it a crime to change once you discover more about yourself? I mean that in many ways.

You want honesty? Here's brutal honesty. At the time I arrived here I was much more depressed than I am now. I was also struggling with social anxiety because I had never really found acceptance from anybody. I also wasn't succeeding in my work; I was struggling to compose and was beginning to worry that all my dreams would come to nothing and I'd die alone, a failure in every way. My family are not encouraging - to this day they joke about and mock me often, and reject my attempts to reach out to them and introduce a person they can't perceive. But this year I learned that there are other sorts of people out there too, people who are more compatible with me and want someone a little different. Experiencing that turned my life around.

You see I never really thought I would be able to attract anybody and felt crippling levels of shame (and envy/anger towards others) over my desires, my looks and my interests, because they are all very different to my father and brother who are very successful with women, and I assumed that meant I was effeminate and would never be loveable for a long time. I tried to become more like them, kind of like action stars and macho men, 8-ish I guess (hence the cp6 and Thinking tendencies). But I always resented the fact that I couldn't just be me. I still feel pangs of pain, but nowadays I mainly do those things because I also like the mystery of being different kinds of people/archetypes/identities. It is good to keep people guessing. My moods tend to shift often as well. So fun and shock value.

To be honest I don't really want to say why exactly I am a 4, because that would involve digging up a lot of dark, embarrassing shit. But I hope this explains why I am not a 6.

 

[Starry]

The reason I suggest that is because I've elucidated on many aspects of my personality so far, and you are unconvinced by that - so I suggest that you spend some time looking through my posts outside this thread rather than me taking the time. You might get a broader feel for my personality that way.

People have treated me very provocatively in this thread. None of you have made a concerted effort to make a case for an alternative typing when challenged.



This will be my last post in here...

Well, for a start, like most posters in this thread I have learned more about typology during my time here. Do you consider it a crime to change once you discover more about yourself? I mean that in many ways.

^^It's so irritating when people do this - the bolded. Do you consider it a crime when people ask questions? Does such an individual automatically become suspect? Do you feel they might trick you somehow? Does it make you feel insecure? Possibly in danger?

In general, 4s love personal questions btw.

You want honesty? Here's brutal honesty. At the time I arrived here I was much more depressed than I am now. I was also struggling with social anxiety because I had never really found acceptance from anybody. I also wasn't succeeding in my work; I was struggling to compose and was beginning to worry that all my dreams would come to nothing and I'd die alone, a failure in every way. My family are not encouraging - to this day they joke about and mock me often, and reject my attempts to reach out to them and introduce a person they can't perceive. But this year I learned that there are other sorts of people out there too, people who are more compatible with me and want someone a little different. Experiencing that turned my life around.

You see I never really thought I would be able to attract anybody and felt crippling levels of shame (and envy/anger towards others) over my desires, my looks and my interests, because they are all very different to my father and brother who are very successful with women, and I assumed that meant I was effeminate and would never be loveable for a long time. I tried to become more like them, kind of like action stars and macho men, 8-ish I guess (hence the cp6 and Thinking tendencies). But I always resented the fact that I couldn't just be me. I still feel pangs of pain, but nowadays I mainly do those things because I also like the mystery of being different kinds of people/archetypes/identities. It is good to keep people guessing. My moods tend to shift often as well. So fun and shock value.

To be honest I don't really want to say why exactly I am a 4, because that would involve digging up a lot of dark, embarrassing shit. But I hope this explains why I am not a 6.

While I sympathize with your struggle...none of what you said above points to 4. You have intellectualized something you believe you relate to...but clearly don't begin to understand the true plight of 4.

I was under the impression you were open to all typological suggestions though... and yet you sound set on 4. If that is the case...then I am wasting my time here.

 

[Kullervo]

^^It's so irritating when people do this - the bolded. Do you consider it a crime when people ask questions? Does such an individual automatically become suspect? Do you feel they might trick you somehow? Does it make you feel insecure? Possibly in danger?

In general, 4s love personal questions btw.






While I sympathize with your struggle...none of what you said above points to 4. You have intellectualized something you believe you relate to...but clearly don't begin to understand the true plight of 4.

I was under the impression you were open to all typological suggestions though... and yet you sound set on 4. If that is the case...then I am wasting my time here.

Dear god. This is why I am hesitant to rely on personal anecdotes and feelings in the art of persuasion. It doesn't usually work.

However I will say this: I am one of the few people on the forum who has sought professional testing for Enneagram in the last year. And (in a surprise to me at the time, as forum members who know me well could attest) I got E4. I actually posted a copy of the Enneagram testing results here at the time. If you really wanted, you could also look at my Socionics results, which are indicative of MBTI and have been quite consistent.

Your response to me also show that you aren't really interested in using the theory to type me. I posted material earlier to help people understand the distinctions between a 4 and a 6. They are not, as you seem to believe (e.g. "4s like personal questions") in how a person acts, but in why they act that way. A person can commit murder for all kinds of reasons, but observers only see the shot and man lying on the ground.

I hope you will grow to understand this some day. I have no intention of changing my typing.

 

[cascadeco]

So, the unfortunate thing about any personality test is that you answer the questions how you already perceive yourself to be. Self perception is often not accurate. (and yes I know this goes against what most typing systems say, ie you know yourself best, but this is only true to an extent; we deceive ourselves just as often, either downplaying things, overplaying things, or tons of other possibilities)

 

[Starry]

Dear god. This is why I am hesitant to rely on personal anecdotes and feelings in the art of persuasion. It doesn't usually work.

However I will say this: I am one of the few people on the forum who has sought professional testing for Enneagram in the last year. And (in a surprise to me at the time, as forum members who know me well could attest) I got E4. I actually posted a copy of the Enneagram testing results here at the time. If you really wanted, you could also look at my Socionics results, which are indicative of MBTI and have been quite consistent.

Your response to me also show that you aren't really interested in using the theory to type me. I posted material earlier to help people understand the distinctions between a 4 and a 6. They are not, as you seem to believe (e.g. "4s like personal questions") in how a person acts, but in why they act that way. A person can commit murder for all kinds of reasons, but observers only see the shot and man lying on the ground.

I hope you will grow to understand this some day. I have no intention of changing my typing.

Your arrogance is beyond offputting. <-I hope you will grow to understand that someday. Perhaps then...someone will put forth the effort.

 

[BadOctopus]

I have no intention of changing my typing.

Out of curiosity, why did you make this thread then? You told Coriolis you don't think you're an INTJ or an INFJ, yet you have "INFJ" as your type in your profile. What type do you think you are?

 

[Kullervo]

I made this thread out of a genuine interest in getting help from people who wanted to help me solve a question about whether I favour Fi or Fe (because that would help me solve a question I have about my typing). Until recently all the dialogue here was courteous and productive. A few obliging people early on helped me make the decision. In my mind, that was the end of the discussion and at that point I wanted the thread to be closed.

At this time, some people who hadn't posted much (or at all) earlier in the thread obviously sensed an opportunity to cause trouble. Against my expressed wishes, this thread has remained open and people are now questioning my Enneatype and other aspects of my MBTI that I have not suggested are in doubt. I believe in giving everyone a fair hearing so I was happy to engage them for a while. But now I have lost my patience. Very few of you who question my new typing have shown much thought in doing so.

I have never seen a senior member receive such virulently condescending treatment in a Type Me thread. Further, I can all too easily imagine the howls of outrage here if the situation was reversed and I was to treat one of you so dismissively (let alone encourage others to do so). I would at the very least lose a lot of respect. It just seems to be one thing after another, and I know better than to fair treatment in the future so it is time to seek greener pastures. Rarely have I seen so many closed-minded, pretentious people in one place, blissfully unaware of either.

I guess that is the power of the mind.

 

[Cellmold]

In terms of Fe vs Fi, I'm not sure, you do have a penchant for self-convincing of absolutes. Although then again don't we all?

I would say more Fi than Fe. I do not see any instinct towards the reading of the immediate social culture, but I see a lot of clearly defined values and opinions in that (sometimes) black & white way which Fi tends to gravitate towards. I also see a lot of personal pain and loneliness which clearly influences much of your relation towards the external world. I think you're stuck at a certain place in your own approach and it looks like it's hard for you to push past it for various reasons, most of which you probably know yourself.

All I can say is we are constantly influenced as we influence and sometimes the internal is the source of the conflict and not the necessary solution to an external situation. It becomes far too easy for a person to argue themselves into a position of helplessness where all options are deemed bad and a negative choice, but at the same time rejecting all proffered solutions as being unsatisfactory for the situation.

This is something I perceive a lot of with Fi. We're all individuals...(allegedly) but yours is a very personal anguish and while I can be a rude and rather nasty little person that doesn't mean I don't wish you well in the world, despite conflicting views and opinions.

 

[ceecee]

I made this thread out of a genuine interest in getting help from people who wanted to help me solve a question about whether I favour Fi or Fe (because that would help me solve a question I have about my typing). Until recently all the dialogue here was courteous and productive. A few obliging people early on helped me make the decision. In my mind, that was the end of the discussion and at that point I wanted the thread to be closed.

At this time, some people who hadn't posted much (or at all) earlier in the thread obviously sensed an opportunity to cause trouble. Against my expressed wishes, this thread has remained open and people are now questioning my Enneatype and other aspects of my MBTI that I have not suggested are in doubt. I believe in giving everyone a fair hearing so I was happy to engage them for a while. But now I have lost my patience. Very few of you who question my new typing have shown much thought in doing so.

I have never seen a senior member receive such virulently condescending treatment in a Type Me thread. Further, I can all too easily imagine the howls of outrage here if the situation was reversed and I was to treat one of you so dismissively (let alone encourage others to do so). I would at the very least lose a lot of respect. It just seems to be one thing after another, and I know better than to fair treatment in the future so it is time to seek greener pastures. Rarely have I seen so many closed-minded, pretentious people in one place, blissfully unaware of either.

I guess that is the power of the mind.

So does that mean you're leaving?

 

[Starry]

It's absolutely not you @Senior Member. It's definitely everyone else.