[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Fe types - What are you hiding?!

[entropie]

the Fe auxs are butthurt af... although they can't seem to find a voice offline. at least Fe doms are outspoken offline as well. i totally agree with the OP. i'm growing tired of Fe doms/auxs constantly getting away with crap because they are the pillar of the community. the amount of people including myself that see threw their crap is ominous.

Define crap ?!

 

[Reborn Relic]

Still wondering why terts and inferiors are somehow immune, though.

I personally have a boatload of the traits pointed out in this thread.

So since we've established that terts are somehow immune to the effects of Fe,

We have? I'm Fe-inf (maybe) and I definitely know that my Fe has affected my thinking in the past. I could point you to examples if you like.

The difference is mainly that with Ti at the fore, Fe terts and infs are more likely to trade in certain conventional values for the service of other conventional values that are viewed as more important or bigger. E.g.. "Don't steal" vs. "We should care for the poor" yielding either objectivism/the NAP or a certain level or utilitarianism. They're also more likely to hold onto taste values more stubbornly than others, I think, even after they've lost emotional interest in certain aesthetic things such as art and music. Fe doms and auxes will do this too, but I think they're a little better about it.

But, when I was a young Fe-using lad, I actually did things like obsessively fixate on getting love because it was a social standard to do so, and so on. I also shaped some of my tastes based on standards. But there you are.

Then I realized you were agreeing with me but I'm an attention whore so fuck it.

This is not Fe. It is enneagram 2/3. ESFJ 7s, ENFJ 8s, INFJ 4s and ISFJ 6s don't do this.

First off, ISFJs perhaps don't use Fe as a guidepost for their own behaviour as much, because INFJs would specifically not due to stuff Jung said about Ni, and it just seems neater to suggest that aux and tert- positioned Fe is more of a standard applied to your goods kind of thing, So ISFJ 6s might not on those grounds, same (ish) with INFJ 4s. (4s are not as authentic as people think they are. They try to be. That's not the same as being).

As for ExFJ 7/8s, maybe. It may be more of a case of donning values for different purposes, though. E.g. an ENFJ 8 supporting social justice causes in order to create an emotional environment where they can get their emotional needs met.

 

[Jaguar]

This isn't a thread about my father, it's about types who live a lie but find shelter behind society's rules. This is about the Fe function.

You are confusing Fe with the persona.

The persona, for Swiss psychiatrist Carl Jung, was the social face the individual presented to the world—"a kind of mask, designed on the one hand to make a definite impression upon others, and on the other to conceal the true nature of the individual".

 

[Yama]

the Fe auxs are butthurt af... although they can't seem to find a voice offline. at least Fe doms are outspoken offline as well. i totally agree with the OP. i'm growing tired of Fe doms/auxs constantly getting away with crap because they are the pillar of the community. the amount of people including myself that see threw their crap is ominous.

Less butthurt, more annoyed. Fe is already misrepresented and stereotyped enough. I'm beginning to lose my patience with it, especially since OP decided to start an entire series of threads on different functions solely to spread stereotypes, which I do a lot of work on this forum trying to undo the damage that sort of thing causes.

I don't really know what you mean by having a voice and getting away with crap though.

 

[Mal12345]

Less butthurt, more annoyed. Fe is already misrepresented and stereotyped enough. I'm beginning to lose my patience with it, especially since OP decided to start an entire series of threads on different functions solely to spread stereotypes, which I do a lot of work on this forum trying to undo the damage that sort of thing causes.

You've only focused on Fe though, which makes you look defensive about it. Your comments on my other "stereotypings" have been virtually non-existent.

 

[Mal12345]

Moreover, Mal is right in that
Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
seems to be a win/win living strategy because everybody benefits. You benefit when you conform to social values and are rewarded for it; others benefit because you often strive to put your best foot forward.
yes, "Fe" totally can be a win/win living strategy; and everyone can benefit. (It is, of course, not the only viable strategy.)

I just want to point out the fairness and objectivity you show in quoting something I wrote that was of a positive nature, whereas others have only focused on the perceived negatives.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

The only thing I'm hiding is my stash, and you will never find it!

the Fe auxs are butthurt af... although they can't seem to find a voice offline. at least Fe doms are outspoken offline as well. i totally agree with the OP. i'm growing tired of Fe doms/auxs constantly getting away with crap because they are the pillar of the community. the amount of people including myself that see threw their crap is ominous.

I thought Fi-doms respected strong emotions and sensitivity in others. Is it a shameful thing for a Fe-aux to experience emotional pain? Is that a reason to think less of them or mock them? I know that IxFx get harrassed for their strong, private emotions all the time.

I'm not settled on my type, but I have hidden my emotions in general in my life - at least my strongest ones. I don't always find a voice offline because I don't think of responses quickly enough because of being an introvert. It is difficult to find a true voice in the world, and so for me artistic endeavors help the most. I have valued the online environment because it helps introverts have more time to respond so that they do have more of a voice. I think that's a good thing, and since I like being an introvert, it's not a source of shame to me.

So, on point with the thread, I have tended to hide my strongest emotions. It is because I don't think people want to see strong emotions generally in the world. Also there are strong cultural biases against emotion. A display of emotion discredits the validity of an idea in our culture which primarily respects Te for intellectual endeavors. As someone who values the arts, I think strong emotion contain some of the deepest truths about humanity.

 

[Yama]

You've only focused on Fe though, which makes you look defensive about it. Your comments on my other "stereotypings" have been virtually non-existent.

Because
1. I am more sensitive to stereotypes of my own type
2. I realized after your Si and Fe threads that there was no point contributing to the "discussion"
3. My work correcting the stereotypes specificslly focuses on Si and Fe because they are the ones that are already misunderstood the most.

It's fine if I look defensive, I don't mind. In a way yes, I am being defensive.

 

[Obfuscate]

But I can promise you the Fe hivemind isn't going to like this.

We know that the universe rests on our shoulders.

Behold the power of Fe. You can't destroy the hive-mind. We multiply through social ease.

Thank Christ that Fe-terts and inferiors are somehow immune

this whole string of comments cracks me up when they are strung together like this... it causes me to think of slivers and the borg... resistance is futile!

View attachment 16831
the image is from a card called sliver legion... the flavor text for the card is "Hidden within the clicking, chittering swarm is a unique mind, still young, but growing more aware as time passes." ... wow, you fe are a scary bunch *wink*...

I don't call every INTP an inconsiderate asshole just because I know one INTP who is that way.

that's good... while many of us appear that way (and some of us really are), in many cases it is that we don't realize and/or care how we come across... truth tends to take a bigger focus than emotion...

I would first like to know what INTPs are hiding

i could tell you, but it will just change as i absorb new information and am better able to synthesize truth...

You do not seem to have a very good understanding of what Fe is.

Iron.

i was prepared to see Fe used differently in this thread, but i still think of iron first each time...

Shit guys, I forgot... what's our agenda again??

Emotional prostitution. We act nice only to get freebies, duh.

looking at these as a pair cracks me up... (there is a lot about extroverts, feelers, and sensors that is frustrating and funny... the judging function mostly frustrates me, but that is because of me not them...)

The only thing I'm hiding is my stash, and you will never find it!

hah! nice =)....

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okay, now that i have done my best to lighten the mood i will say a few things... the first thing is that i don't like this thread very much... i nearly didn't say anything because i "didn't want to get any on me"... i don't mean for that statement to come across as judgemental...
-------------------------------------

when i was younger, i had similar thoughts to you about fe 'fakeness', and to a lesser extent, te stuff. however, at the core, je simply focuses on meeting an externally based standard. just because someone would rather realize that criteria than explore the nitty-gritty like you or i doesn't mean they're fake.

i have had these feelings also)... there were exceptions, but i often felt like i was under attack from "fake fe"... my emotional coldness or vulnerability (which was observed is based on my age at the time) was sometimes cited as the reason i perceived strong feelings as threatening... i am willing to admit that there may have been some truth in that... however, i am also very sure that there are/were a lot of fake emotions being used as a tool for manipulation, and that most of the time i was correct in my perceptions... learning what sort of person you are dealing with is important... even people that are most often genuine/fake can sometimes behave in the opposite manner... anyhow, i am not trying to pick on you guys, i just wanted to say that...

additionally, coming from someone who's dating an fe type, i can vouch for how much authentic good fe brings to the table. at its optimum, it offers a kind of unconditional caring you can't get elsewhere. furthermore, when you actually start to get into your inferior for yourself, it provides a huge fucking relief because it dovetails quite nicely with your dominant function. the majority of the users here would benefit from an incentive to tap into that, rather than sitting in an echo-chamber where psychobabble reinforces their worst fears.

i would also "vouch" for that...

My personal theory? Fe-users are afraid of being singled out; they know they benefit best from being a part of the herd, doing mutual favors, cooperating, etc. because they fear being judged or made to do everything on their own. Considering how much cooperation is involved in maintaining society/being human, this is a fair concern. But, being a dominant function, when forced to choose between their own logic (Ti) and the will of the majority (Fe), they opt out for the latter.

i think introverts sometimes feel threatened by extroverts in a similar manner... i have never wondered if if feelers feel threatened by folks like me... i do know that i need to put on kid gloves when dealing with them, or i walk away feeling like an asshole... sometimes, when i feel that an "emotional attack" is too irrational i feel a need to lash out... i assure you this is rare, and is mostly a defensive maneuver...

So you could say that xxFJ types, at their worst (so I absolve the more developed xxFJs), have an uncomfortable predilection for telling other people what they want to hear because they think improving the overall harmony will inevitably improve the situation. This isn't unnecessary, but isn't what every situation needs; Ti-users--who are almost DESIGNED to trouble-shoot-- often run afoul of this, because we want the actual problem to be 'fixed', not just for everyone to 'feel better about it'.

i have this trouble with some of my xxfx friends (i try not to type most of my friends, and to just deal with them as individuals)... i just want to show them how to fix things... often enough they just want me to shut up and listen... it is a struggle but i try until my frustration with the ease of "solving" the problem boils over... i am not sure i will ever understand their thinking fully, but i have a strategy that seems to work...

I thought Fi-doms respected strong emotions and sensitivity in others. Is it a shameful thing for a Fe-aux to experience emotional pain? Is that a reason to think less of them or mock them? I know that IxFx get harrassed for their strong, private emotions all the time.

i don't see why people feel the need to mock what is kept private...

I have hidden my emotions in general in my life - at least my strongest ones. I don't always find a voice offline because I don't think of responses quickly enough because of being an introvert. It is difficult to find a true voice in the world, and so for me artistic endeavors help the most. I have valued the online environment because it helps introverts have more time to respond so that they do have more of a voice. I think that's a good thing, and since I like being an introvert, it's not a source of shame to me.

i can identify with this...

So, on point with the thread, I have tended to hide my strongest emotions. It is because I don't think people want to see strong emotions generally in the world. Also there are strong cultural biases against emotion. A display of emotion discredits the validity of an idea in our culture which primarily respects Te for intellectual endeavors. As someone who values the arts, I think strong emotion contain some of the deepest truths about humanity.

i can admit that i appreciate when people hide strong emotions... i would never try to censor any of you (the type in question), but i might avoid you in real life if you were threatening or obnoxious to me...

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sorry this is a wall of text...

 

[Lady Lazarus]

I appreciate this slant as the essence of it is something I can relate to. (Maybe even the style in a loose way as I don't care to make lemonade out of the typological lemons I've been presented with simply because that is what is expected of the situation.)

The basic element of this is something I think is important to accuracy in terms of the heuristic based portrayals this sort of thing can potentially be used for, ideally as one of many, a counterbalance for the "lemonade" descriptions. And if this were stripped of the obvious actually prodding intent and instead taken for the broader implication of the guru's elsewhere mentioned "Fe hidden layers" then I'd like to think this sort of thing would help people cease to ask me "where my Fe is".

I see this as unintentionally bringing something valuable and so it's difficult for me to dismiss. Whoever takes this angle alone and runs with it is not inherently the fault of this description or those like it. Nor is someone who takes it verbatim. Those would both be decisions taken by other parties, reductive actions that deal more in flaws of the approach than the presented material itself.

 

[misfortuneteller]

Define crap ?!

being manipulative, being sneaky, being bitchy. etc. they seem to get a pass just because they are the pillar of the community. it's a bit like when priests abuse kids and the other normal priests don't get involved because he's a nice guy most of the time.

 

[misfortuneteller]

Fe is already misrepresented and stereotyped enough.

you want to know why that is? because they get away with murder offline. i mean ESTPs aren't very much liked online but they are smooth operators offline. it's just how the internet works.

 

[misfortuneteller]

I thought Fi-doms respected strong emotions and sensitivity in others.

No. That would be Fe-doms.

Is it a shameful thing for a Fe-aux to experience emotional pain? Is that a reason to think less of them or mock them?

who said it was shameful? I was just putting out that they were obviously butthurt whilst they tend to be rather mute offline which makes them two-faced imo. They can say what they wish behind a computer screen to total strangers but they dare not attempt to float the boat with a group of their closest friends.

 

[Yama]

you want to know why that is? because they get away with murder offline. i mean ESTPs aren't very much liked online but they are smooth operators offline. it's just how the internet works.

ok

 

[Yama]

who said it was shameful? I was just putting out that they were obviously butthurt whilst they tend to be rather mute offline which makes them two-faced imo. They can say what they wish behind a computer screen to total strangers but they dare not attempt to float the boat with a group of their closest friends.

Now I'm just amused lol. I could just as easily call you just as butthurt because you obviously are projecting some problem with some individual FJ onto all FJs just like OP is.

Ahh, so many people in this thread trying to tell me and the other FJs who we are, what we feel, and what our experiences are as if knowing one of us means you know all of us despite the diversity and complexity of people and can use that to incriminate entire groups of people for one person's crimes. I'll just have to accept that you're limiting your own worldview and it's not my problem and move on.

 

[entropie]

being manipulative, being sneaky, being bitchy. etc. they seem to get a pass just because they are the pillar of the community. it's a bit like when priests abuse kids and the other normal priests don't get involved because he's a nice guy most of the time.

I'ld bet that is just your feeling. If you are young and your self-conciencse aint that good yet, you could develop the habit to say that the majority of things you feel shitty about are others faults. Truth is, you yourself have to work on your own strength to trust in yourself and to like yourself and to give a shit about what others think. Most people - you call them the pillars of society - who behave that way are insecure themselves. They just dont talk about it softly, but rather hide it behind aggression, following the statement: to attack is the best defense.

In german there is a saying that goes like this: never point a naked finger on people who wear clothes.

 

[Pionart]

Fe-aux Ramirez? Where do you get this stupid shit? Oh, I forgot - whatever Malware types someone as is twue, twue, twue. Go get em' Tweety.

Richard Ramirez was Fe aux. What are you even going on about, Jaguar?

 

[misfortuneteller]

Ahh, so many people in this thread trying to tell me and the other FJs who we are, what we feel, and what our experiences are as if knowing one of us means you know all of us despite the diversity and complexity of people and can use that to incriminate entire groups of people for one person's crimes. I'll just have to accept that you're limiting your own worldview and it's not my problem and move on.

Jesus Christ, chill out. even if they choose to discriminate that is on them. complaining about it is only going to make them think they were right all along.

 

[misfortuneteller]

I'd bet that is just your feeling.

@Yamato you see? Fi doms are getting stereotyped right now and i'm not complaining about it because that is just how the MBTI community is.

 

[misfortuneteller]

I'ld bet that is just your feeling.

it certainly isn't just my feeling. plenty of others think that this is the same thing. you just sound like you have your hand far up FJs arse which isn't surprising considering you are a tertiary Fe user yourself.

If you are young and your self-conciencse aint that good yet

if you are young and spelging ain't that good yet

you could develop the habit to say that the majority of things you feel shitty about are others faults.

so you ask me a question and when you don't get the response you wanted. you throw out assumptions? standard Fe

Truth is, you yourself have to work on your own strength to trust in yourself

i do.

and to like yourself and to give a shit about what others think.

i don't give a shit what others think. apparently criticizing FJs = caring what others think in your mind.

Most people - you call them the pillars of society - who behave that way are insecure themselves.

something we can agree on.