[Jungian Cognitive Functions] Fe types - What are you hiding?!

[Norrsken]

Shit guys, I forgot... what's our agenda again??

Emotional prostitution. We act nice only to get freebies, duh.

 

[Ribonuke]

My personal theory? Fe-users are afraid of being singled out; they know they benefit best from being a part of the herd, doing mutual favors, cooperating, etc. because they fear being judged or made to do everything on their own. Considering how much cooperation is involved in maintaining society/being human, this is a fair concern. But, being a dominant function, when forced to choose between their own logic (Ti) and the will of the majority (Fe), they opt out for the latter.

So you could say that xxFJ types, at their worst (so I absolve the more developed xxFJs), have an uncomfortable predilection for telling other people what they want to hear because they think improving the overall harmony will inevitably improve the situation. This isn't unnecessary, but isn't what every situation needs; Ti-users--who are almost DESIGNED to trouble-shoot-- often run afoul of this, because we want the actual problem to be 'fixed', not just for everyone to 'feel better about it'.

Emotional prostitution. We act nice only to get freebies, duh.

I've actually USED this term before when describing Fe! XD Back when I was developing my own Fe (in my late teens/early 20s, back when I thought it was Aux Fe, not Dom/Aux Ti), I equated how it felt like this. I wouldn't say it's the case for all Fe-users--many can be genuine--but is a serious problem for Fe-users missing foresight and/or integrity.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

If you're a dom or aux Fe type, you may have a problem that you're not even aware of: inauthenticity, which I loosely define as putting on an act for others, or being what others want you to be - or as my Fe-aux father explained it to me, putting on a front, a "personality" as he called it, which was something he highly recommended that I do.

Not only do you Fe types want to conform to others' social values, you want to be the best at it because (in 'Murica) that is also a social value. This seems to be a win/win living strategy because everybody benefits. You benefit when you conform to social values and are rewarded for it; others benefit because you often strive to put your best foot forward.

But you're lying. And inwardly, somewhere deep down, you know you're lying. Always and consistently putting your best foot forward makes you look good, really good. You may even be a pillar of your community. My ISFJ father was widely celebrated in his circles as a great guy. He would brag to me about how the judge let him off of his DUI charge because the judge said he's a great guy. And if I want the same special treatment then I need to be just like him when I grow up, invisible warts and all.

My Fe-aux father was not all that he was cracked up to be. He was living a lie, and in many ways that was also acceptable because all these other Fe types running society were also lying in pretty much the same ways, and still are. And he was never exposed because they rarely are. The judge let him off of the hook for a DUI. Society protects its own.

This isn't a thread about my father, it's about types who live a lie but find shelter behind society's rules. This is about the Fe function.

You apparently had some hard times with Fe. Don't worry mate, you're not the only one

 

[Norrsken]

My personal theory? Fe-users are afraid of being singled out; they know they benefit best from being a part of the herd, doing mutual favors, cooperating, etc. because they fear being judged or made to do everything on their own. Considering how much cooperation is involved in maintaining society/being human, this is a fair concern. But, being a dominant function, when forced to choose between their own logic (Ti) and the will of the majority (Fe), they opt out for the latter.

So you could say that xxFJ types, at their worst (so I absolve the more developed xxFJs), have an uncomfortable predilection for telling other people what they want to hear because they think improving the overall harmony will inevitably improve the situation. This isn't unnecessary, but isn't what every situation needs; Ti-users--who are almost DESIGNED to trouble-shoot-- often run afoul of this, because we want the actual problem to be 'fixed', not just for everyone to 'feel better about it'.

I will be honest, my greatest fear is to be all alone, in every sense of the way. I think this is a very common fear among dom/aux-fe users, so we do all we can to make and maintain relationships with other people, even if it hurts us or isn't even necessary. I think the only thing I can say to defend fe-users is that, when we are nice to those we shouldn't be, or if it somehow feels fake to others, we aren't doing it to be inauthentic; sometimes, we just know that people are so complex and multi-dimensional, that even the biggest asshole in the world may have their moments of weakness and we, the fe-users, want to understand and explore that. Why are they assholes and what can we do to help them? It's not just to make the asshole 'feel better'- we want to get to know them and their life stories!

We just don't see the point of causing waves if it means it will impede the process of fixing a situation. We still have a brain, and we still use it logically to solve life's issues. I don't understand why some people like to pretend that xxFJ types can't also tap into their Ti without immeasurable amounts of strength. It comes naturally to us, don't worry!

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

Everybody is hiding something. I didn't specify lying in the thread title. I'm talking about the Fe-specific form of hiding something which is to try to put something over on themselves/others in the form of living a lie, inauthenticity, appearances, and empty social forms.

I'll never ever tell you what I'm hiding If you wanna know, you'll have to use both your left and right brain

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

Why are they assholes and what can we do to help them? It's not just to make the asshole 'feel better'- we want to get to know them and their life stories!

We just don't see the point of causing waves if it means it will impede the process of fixing a situation. We still have a brain, and we still use it logically to solve life's issues. I don't understand why some people like to pretend that xxFJ types can't also tap into their Ti without immeasurable amounts of strength. It comes naturally to us, don't worry!

I believe you...that is the good side of altruism... but what is the point in knowing the story of "an asshole" ? Next please

 

[Norrsken]

I believe you...that is the good side of altruism... but what is the point in knowing the story of "an asshole" ? Next please

Yes, it does seem pointless in getting to know the asshole, but the asshole is still a human being. The asshole still has a hidden good, sweet, and vulnerable side. I mean, what if the asshole apologizes to me? I can't just bluff them. Sure, I'll be quite angry at all they've done against me for a good while, but I'll still be nice to them and treat them well. I always said that everybody goes through their own personal hells, and we should all do what it takes to make somebody else's day brighter; you and I don't know what they are going through, so why make their lives even harder by being 'brutally honest' if all it'll do is just make certain problems worse?

That is not to say that brutal honesty isn't ever a good option to use. There will always be a moment in life where I just pretty much let loose and shoot the other person with brutal honesty in order for them to get their shit together, especially if they are causing active harm against themselves and/or other people. Trust me, you won't like me when I'm angry!

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

Trust me, you won't like me when I'm angry!

Being an asshole isn't just "being angry" to me. This has to do with moral values that I don't have to carry on my back.

If you are angry, I could still like you if it is done in a fair and honest way to defend your own values.

If someones gets angry just for his/her own pleasure to bring the shit out of my bum I don't wanna lose my time with negative energies. There are many more situations

and people to deal with, who crave for reassurance, cuddles, positive vibes and who DESERVE THEM, those, lost in the middle of a violent and poor values world.

But I'm not Fe dominant...

 

[anticlimatic]

Do you believe that all FJs use their Fe with malicious intent?


How many heavy Fe users do you know?

Tons. I get along better with heavy Fe users than any other type. It's not inherently malicious, it's just never straight forward or to the point. It's always an elaborate often manipulative beating around the bush. I know it's because they want/need to be liked by other people, but if you can see through it (especially regularly) it just comes off as narcissistically patronizing.

 

[Haven]

I would first like to know what INTPs are hiding

 

[EJCC]

Tons. I get along better with heavy Fe users than any other type. It's not inherently malicious, it's just never straight forward or to the point. It's always an elaborate often manipulative beating around the bush. I know it's because they want/need to be liked by other people, but if you can see through it (especially regularly) it just comes off as narcissistically patronizing.

Or you could see it as a different language, instead. A way in which they communicate that you can learn how to read once you get to know them. It sounds like you do know them -- but instead of viewing it as a legitimate form of communication, you're judging it pretty harshly.

I can vouch for the fact that it doesn't come across as "narcissistically patronizing" to everyone. I like Fe folks. I think the world is a better place for having so many people with a genuine focus on people's wants, needs, feelings. As a fellow member of the Je club I understand the control element of their behavior, so I don't fault them for it -- I relate to it. And I can safely say that if everyone was an ESTJ, or if everyone was an INTP, nothing would get done, and few people would be happy and/or fulfilled.

 

[Tilt]

In the realm of the FJ type I am reminded of Riso's type Two:

"Naturally, unhealthy Twos are difficult to help and notoriously resistant to therapy. They put themselves in a morally superior position, no matter what they have said or done. And by insisting on the absolute purity of their motives, they call those of others into question. Even tangible evidence has no effect on them since it can be dismissed as irrelevant to their good intentions."

And also the Type Three to an extent:
"They are ready to sell out, lie, change their 'loyalties,' or take advantage of others to come out on top."

For me personally, I have often gotten in trouble for being way too blunt. I am not really good at the whole "social white lie" thing. However, I will hold back information that is entirely irrelevant to the situation/future which will cause pointless and unnecessary drama.

For example, one of my friends made a few mistakes that he's completely oblivious to but he has long since removed himself from the situation. I never plan to tell him because it's completely irrelevant and would create unnecessary pain and drama. I don't hold anything against the person and genuinely appreciate him and can completely understand the backdrop of what led to those mistakes. It's similar with a few other people too.

 

[Bush]

I'll never ever tell you what I'm hiding If you wanna know, you'll have to use both your left and right brain

You're not hiding anything, at all, ever, because you're an Fi-user. It's basic typology

 

[anticlimatic]

Or you could see it as a different language, instead. A way in which they communicate that you can learn how to read once you get to know them. It sounds like you do know them -- but instead of viewing it as a legitimate form of communication, you're judging it pretty harshly.

I can vouch for the fact that it doesn't come across as "narcissistically patronizing" to everyone. I like Fe folks. I think the world is a better place for having so many people with a genuine focus on people's wants, needs, feelings. As a fellow member of the Je club I understand the control element of their behavior, so I don't fault them for it -- I relate to it. And I can safely say that if everyone was an ESTJ, or if everyone was an INTP, nothing would get done, and few people would be happy and/or fulfilled.

Overall I don't dislike Fe folks, especially the introverts. Im just on a jaded kick right now with a recent ENFJ controlling ex, an incompetent shitheel ENFJ work supervisor who earns promotions and raises on bullshit alone, and an ex stripper alcoholic junkie ENFJ neighbor who spends every chance she can get trying to guilt me into giving her change for liquor.

 

[/DG/]

Oh yeah, now I remember why I resisted typing as ISFJ.

Because apparently everyone dislikes us because we are evil. MBTI is such a loving community. I see why Mole hates it so much.

DG out

 

[Bush]

No no. But seriously. I've seen fewer and fewer oddball generalizations since '07. We're experiencing the same thing from time to time, but less frequently and to a lesser degree. So we're good there. There's also quite a bit more diversity. And I've always felt like members of underrepresented types should stick around as counterexamples. (I'm looking at you, [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION], [MENTION=6554]/DG/[/MENTION], [MENTION=23583]Yamato Nadeshiko[/MENTION]. And, no; I'm not just saying so because I'm a lying liar; I really do mean it.)

There's some fruitful discussion to be had in the middle ground between "Every FJ is a liar, end of story." and "Well, everybody lies, end of story."

Still wondering why terts and inferiors are somehow immune, though.

I personally have a boatload of the traits pointed out in this thread.

So since we've established that terts are somehow immune to the effects of Fe,

What you're describing with the whole social conformity thing sounds to me more like some level of the so instinct, and maybe the e3-6-9 triangle (and possibly e1 to a lesser extent), but not necessarily Fe. Are you sure the right questions have been asked?

And also the Type Three to an extent:
"They are ready to sell out, lie, change their 'loyalties,' or take advantage of others to come out on top."

being a total 3 might be to blame. Regardless of the cause, it's there. I'm well aware of the quote-unquote problem. I, in fact, know

inwardly, somewhere deep down, you know you're lying.

know on a full-on conscious level that, at least from the perspectives shared here, I'm lying. A lying liar.

And there's a huge assumption is that this "inauthenticity" is necessarily a problem in and of itself, rather than what can sometimes simply be a different tactic toward the same end goals.

Especially on account of that there's (a) no person out there with a monopoly on the truth,

Truth isn't always this cold, emotionless and hurtful vessel. Sometimes, it lifts and heals other people and make people feel better. Maybe I do like the person I'm looking at; how is it, then, a lie if I tell them they are an amazing person when that's pretty much the truth? What is even the truth, anyway?

but also (b) even given a truth, there's no one way to articulate or communicate a truth to another person.

If you're blunt, the other person might read some "untruth" into it, such as that you don't like them. If you're saccharine, then you're going to lose their trust and they're not going to get your message.


Moreover, Mal is right in that

seems to be a win/win living strategy because everybody benefits. You benefit when you conform to social values and are rewarded for it; others benefit because you often strive to put your best foot forward.

yes, "Fe" totally can be a win/win living strategy; and everyone can benefit. (It is, of course, not the only viable strategy.)

 

[Mal12345]

There's too many mods on this thread.

 

[Yama]

There's too many mods on this thread.

Why does that matter? They're not using mod powers for anything, they're just participating like regular members...

 

[Mal12345]

Why does that matter? They're not using mod powers for anything, they're just participating like regular members...

Sometimes.

I'd take this to PM just to make sure they don't start something.

 

[Poki]

Sometimes.

I'd take this to PM just to make sure they don't start something.

or just learn civility