Fe and the wall?

[anticlimatic]

Everybody's walls look different.

Strong Fe walls look like sparkling mirrors.
Strong Te walls look like empty lots.
Weak Fe walls look like steel cliffs.
Weak Te walls look like marble and obsidian mountains.

 

[á´…eparted]

[MENTION=25763]Enthusiastic_Dreamer[/MENTION]

I'll speak for myself here but I can't say if this will apply for other Fe-doms. It might, but I can't gaurentee it.

The wall what you speak of is a social front that stops an individual from getting any closer to me. The wall is tuneable as to what the distance is. It takes some conscious effort on my end to move it around, but it basically comes down to how much room I give the other person to reply to me. It comes in two flavors.

The first is the most simple; being short and non-emotive. If for whatever reason I do not wish to speak to someone at depth, I will often give very short replies to people that don't leave much room for follow up. Someone asking: "how's your day going? The weather is lovely today isn't it?" I could reply "It's ok, and yes the weather is quite nice." in a distant sounding, but pleasent voice, and all with no eye contact. There is a disparity between my voice tone (friendly and warm) and body language (cold and distant) that tends to leave people unsure how to go. The other has to then put up a lot of energy in order to keep conversation going. I'll engage, but the same sort of tactic will recur. There are many reasons to why I do this. The most simple one is if I am sad or in a bad mood- I don't want people catching wind of it too much or having to explain it, or I just want to be left alone and don't want to expend energy emoting.

The more complex "wall" is the social and friendly form. It takes a lot more effort, and if I am low on energy I can't do it well. It is how ever much more effective and thicker. Essentially, I'll be jovial, up front, highly emotive, but keep the conversation focused on a particular set of things. Work, the weather, a recent current event. I'll reveal myself in how I am temperment wise, but I won't let the conversation deviate when attempts are made. If it is successful and I can't reroute it, I'll remain quiet and listen, but still body language wise be very engaged.

Essentially the walls are masks that I use to protect myself and be selective what I let in and out. It's definitely my Fe doing the work, but I could see non-Fe users doing this sort of thing. Seems like a human thing to do. I just happen to be really good at it and it comes naturally.

 

[Coriolis]

[MENTION=25763]Essentially the walls are masks that I use to protect myself and be selective what I let in and out. It's definitely my Fe doing the work, but I could see non-Fe users doing this sort of thing. Seems like a human thing to do. I just happen to be really good at it and it comes naturally.

I certainly do something similar, though far less nuanced. My default response to "How are you/How's your day going?" is "Busy". If someone comments on something like the weather like that, I might not reply at all. If I do, it is probably just with "perhaps" or "I suppose", while my attention is focused elsewhere.

I, too, am good at steering discussions where I want them to go, and more importantly, away from where I don't want them. I will even resort to smalltalk to do this if necessary,* though I prefer just to pursue an innocous topic introduced by the other person, in ways they don't expect so it requires their full attention. The friendlier version of this is to discuss freely but only in the space of abstract ideas, nothing personal.

*example:

Some years ago I was in a small German town on a college choir tour. We were all put up by local families. They were very proud of the fact that the town was half Catholic, half Protestant, and all got along well. In fact it was one of the few stops where we sang in the community center and not a church. One evening my host asked me which I was: Catholic or Protestant. Since I was raised Catholic, I answered to that effect, and we discussed that a bit. I diverted the conversation before she could ask the same of my friend. My friend was Jewish, had several relatives who died in the camps, and I knew just didn't want to get into it. Interestingly, this was all in German. Not sure I could do that now.

 

[á´…eparted]

I certainly do something similar, though far less nuanced. My default response to "How are you/How's your day going?" is "Busy". If someone comments on something like the weather like that, I might not reply at all. If I do, it is probably just with "perhaps" or "I suppose", while my attention is focused elsewhere.

I, too, am good at steering discussions where I want them to go, and more importantly, away from where I don't want them. I will even resort to smalltalk to do this if necessary,* though I prefer just to pursue an innocous topic introduced by the other person, in ways they don't expect so it requires their full attention. The friendlier version of this is to discuss freely but only in the space of abstract ideas, nothing personal.

*example:

Some years ago I was in a small German town on a college choir tour. We were all put up by local families. They were very proud of the fact that the town was half Catholic, half Protestant, and all got along well. In fact it was one of the few stops where we sang in the community center and not a church. One evening my host asked me which I was: Catholic or Protestant. Since I was raised Catholic, I answered to that effect, and we discussed that a bit. I diverted the conversation before she could ask the same of my friend. My friend was Jewish, had several relatives who died in the camps, and I knew just didn't want to get into it. Interestingly, this was all in German. Not sure I could do that now.

I find an interesting divergence with it; you're much more direct about diverting things. I take the approach where I also make sure the person thinks they are doing it of their own volition. It makes me much more warm and personable, which I incidentally like.

I do the same thing as your example if I am with someone who may not want to talk about something. I generally don't like to assume it, but I sometimes do. Did you learn German in school? Always wanted to learn another language but I have no use of it; thus I won't learn it well.

 

[Dreamer]

Everybody's walls look different.

Strong Fe walls look like sparkling mirrors.
Strong Te walls look like empty lots.
Weak Fe walls look like steel cliffs.
Weak Te walls look like marble and obsidian mountains.

The strong Fe and Te are both walls that I can very much see as you describe and love your analogies! The "sparkling mirror" is a good way to put what I experience with my coworkers on a daily basis.

 

[Dreamer]

On thinking about this thread, I think there is actually a Fi-wall as well, but it tends to be more blank and defaults to assumptions of snobbery and such. I think the Fe-wall may often have a layer of positivity that hides negativity, but the Fi-wall reveals neither. The Fe-wall mirrors back the other person and provides an expectation about what to say next, and the Fi-wall leaves everyone uncomfortable with its blankness and creates uncertainty about what to say next.

I was thinking on this myself actually, as people were posting their thoughts on the Fe wall. I was thinking, well you know what, I think I too have a sort of wall of my own. Though, I wouldn't say it has to do with shielding my true being from others, in the way I sense from my coworkers. I feel my wall is fairly obvious to be frank. I think what throws me off about their walls is that they have all the trappings and adornment of someone one would think to be this warm and affectionate person, but ultimately, gives you none of that promise. It's this bizarre dynamic to me where I am lured in but then disappointed or just left confused. My wall, if I am picking it out correctly, I feel falls more in line with how I am feeling at any given time. It doesn't matter if my best friend enters the room or a stranger, if I'm not in the mood, I probably wouldn't acknowledge either. It's not that I have this weird sense of pride in being a dick to others, but that my focus is almost entirely on what I'm feeling in any given moment, and what I show outwardly, is in some way, a reflection of that. I mean, I'm sure everyone does this right? Eh, I'm still thinking on this but I think you're right, I think there may be some Fi equivalent.

 

[Dreamer]

[MENTION=25763]Enthusiastic_Dreamer[/MENTION]

I'll speak for myself here but I can't say if this will apply for other Fe-doms. It might, but I can't gaurentee it.

The wall what you speak of is a social front that stops an individual from getting any closer to me. The wall is tuneable as to what the distance is. It takes some conscious effort on my end to move it around, but it basically comes down to how much room I give the other person to reply to me. It comes in two flavors.

The first is the most simple; being short and non-emotive. If for whatever reason I do not wish to speak to someone at depth, I will often give very short replies to people that don't leave much room for follow up. Someone asking: "how's your day going? The weather is lovely today isn't it?" I could reply "It's ok, and yes the weather is quite nice." in a distant sounding, but pleasent voice, and all with no eye contact. There is a disparity between my voice tone (friendly and warm) and body language (cold and distant) that tends to leave people unsure how to go. The other has to then put up a lot of energy in order to keep conversation going. I'll engage, but the same sort of tactic will recur. There are many reasons to why I do this. The most simple one is if I am sad or in a bad mood- I don't want people catching wind of it too much or having to explain it, or I just want to be left alone and don't want to expend energy emoting.

The more complex "wall" is the social and friendly form. It takes a lot more effort, and if I am low on energy I can't do it well. It is how ever much more effective and thicker. Essentially, I'll be jovial, up front, highly emotive, but keep the conversation focused on a particular set of things. Work, the weather, a recent current event. I'll reveal myself in how I am temperment wise, but I won't let the conversation deviate when attempts are made. If it is successful and I can't reroute it, I'll remain quiet and listen, but still body language wise be very engaged.

Essentially the walls are masks that I use to protect myself and be selective what I let in and out. It's definitely my Fe doing the work, but I could see non-Fe users doing this sort of thing. Seems like a human thing to do. I just happen to be really good at it and it comes naturally.

Thank you for your perspective on this Hard! I feel like I haven't seen you on much these days but glad to see you in this thread

I appreciate the specificity of your experience and use of this wall. I wasn't all too sure how to word what I was experiencing or if anyone would get what I was aiming towards. Thankfully it seems many members have! I agree though, that there is a very basic human element in here, and using that wall as an emotional barrier or, a barrier for anything really. I wonder though, when you use your wall to protect yourself, are you trying to prevent something from coming out or from something coming in? I feel in my use of a wall, though, I still need to think on what my personal wall even looks like, I use it to protect things from coming in. How I extrovert or express my mood or actions externally are of little importance to me when I'm feeling low. In those times, I do whatever I can to shield from external influences. I wonder, do you do the opposite? Do you see a level of responsibility so to speak, in not allowing the internal to pass through your wall into the external environment? I'm really just thinking off on tangent now, but I sense that perhaps a potential difference between an Fi wall and an Fe wall is where one sees the "purity" in wishing to protect. Do you see the external as the pure, to keep true, or the internal as such?

Sorry for the thought garbage, it's hard to brainstorm without someone to immediately bounce ideas off of...*checks Discord/Vent*

 

[Dreamer]

I certainly do something similar, though far less nuanced. My default response to "How are you/How's your day going?" is "Busy". If someone comments on something like the weather like that, I might not reply at all. If I do, it is probably just with "perhaps" or "I suppose", while my attention is focused elsewhere.

I, too, am good at steering discussions where I want them to go, and more importantly, away from where I don't want them. I will even resort to smalltalk to do this if necessary,* though I prefer just to pursue an innocous topic introduced by the other person, in ways they don't expect so it requires their full attention. The friendlier version of this is to discuss freely but only in the space of abstract ideas, nothing personal.

*example:

Some years ago I was in a small German town on a college choir tour. We were all put up by local families. They were very proud of the fact that the town was half Catholic, half Protestant, and all got along well. In fact it was one of the few stops where we sang in the community center and not a church. One evening my host asked me which I was: Catholic or Protestant. Since I was raised Catholic, I answered to that effect, and we discussed that a bit. I diverted the conversation before she could ask the same of my friend. My friend was Jewish, had several relatives who died in the camps, and I knew just didn't want to get into it. Interestingly, this was all in German. Not sure I could do that now.

I've had similar experiences as the one you shared Cor. Though, I feel my ability to steer a convo is less fluid than some others. But as yourself, I saw where the conversation was heading and whether that would've proved beneficial or not, and attempted to mitigate this impending car crash.

 

[Dreamer]

I find an interesting divergence with it; you're much more direct about diverting things. I take the approach where I also make sure the person thinks they are doing it of their own volition. It makes me much more warm and personable, which I incidentally like.

I do the same thing as your example if I am with someone who may not want to talk about something. I generally don't like to assume it, but I sometimes do. Did you learn German in school? Always wanted to learn another language but I have no use of it; thus I won't learn it well.

Hmm...I actually think your short remark here is critical to my original post. There is certainly a "flow" I feel with these Fe doms, and as I've mentioned a few times throughout the thread, I feel the conversations are progressing and moving along, but I think that could be because the Fe-doms have that knack for steering a conversation ever so gently as to allow the other to think they are actually guiding the ship....slightly getting creeped out and amused by this all at the same time. Ugh, such an awesome gift to have!

 

[Starry]

This is just an observation I've had with three Fe doms in my sphere of acquaintances, two ENFJ and one ESFJ, but when I talk to them, I swear, what I get or feel from them is nothing of themselves, as if there is this wall up that prevents me seeing the real them. I don't believe they are Sp doms or anything as they are all very warm and welcoming, but I definitely feel this supposed barrier that no others I know seem to possess. It sometimes feels like I am talking to a wall, where my voice echoes and reverberates. What I hear back is different and not just a mirrored projection, but it's altered. This bounce-back affect is, what I believe, is the cause of me feeling like there is this wall between me and getting to know who they really are.

This is just an observation with some theorizing here, but if anyone can add to this or give their feedback, that'd be awesome. Is Fe like this? Is this a trait of Fe??

I'm super interested in this ED because I *think* you *might* be talking about something I have experienced and have wanted to start a thread on...


I was even considering using a wall analogy to try and illustrate my points along with this short clip

I'm just thinking we have our thoughts on this configured differently (possibly). I wasn't considering Fe necessarily as the culprit but rather *image* as in e2, 3 & 4s. Image is quite often the impenetrable wall for me.

im·pen·e·tra·ble
imˈpenətrəb(ə)l/
adjective

1.
impossible to pass through or enter.
"a dark, impenetrable forest"
synonyms: impassable, unpassable, inaccessible, unnavigable, untraversable;

2.
impossible to understand.



I don't want to take away from your thread and the way you have things set up... but will quickly say that I don't understand image for the life of me. I don't understand why some core image types are the most down to earth...non-imagey people you will ever encounter...and why some image types decide you are pure evil if you don't swallow their carefully constructed facade whole....regardless of the highly distracting discrepancy you may see between fact and the fiction you are supposed to believe is real. (<-I have come to realize this is where I get myself in trouble...is not swallowing the image whole when that is what is needed. sexual 2s are the worst of it in my opinion for some unknown reason...and EFJs are quite likely to be 2 and 3s.)

Anyway...I'll be watching this thread. Thank you for starting it.

 

[Dreamer]

I'm super interested in this ED because I *think* you *might* be talking about something I have experienced and have wanted to start a thread on...


I was even considering using a wall analogy to try and illustrate my points along with this short clip

I'm just thinking we have our thoughts on this configured differently (possibly). I wasn't considering Fe necessarily as the culprit but rather *image* as in e2, 3 & 4s. Image is quite often the impenetrable wall for me.

im·pen·e·tra·ble
imˈpenətrəb(ə)l/
adjective

1.
impossible to pass through or enter.
"a dark, impenetrable forest"
synonyms: impassable, unpassable, inaccessible, unnavigable, untraversable;

2.
impossible to understand.



I don't want to take away from your thread and the way you have things set up... but will quickly say that I don't understand image for the life of me. I don't understand why some core image types are the most down to earth...non-imagey people you will ever encounter...and why some image types decide you are pure evil if you don't swallow their carefully constructed facade whole....regardless of the highly distracting discrepancy you may see between fact and the fiction you are supposed to believe is real. (<-I have come to realize this is where I get myself in trouble...is not swallowing the image whole when that is what is needed. sexual 2s are the worst of it in my opinion for some unknown reason...and EFJs are quite likely to be 2 and 3s.)

Anyway...I'll be watching this thread. Thank you for starting it.

Oh please, I do invite you to share any personal experiences if you have any you'd like to share. I assumed it was at first, solely tied to Fe, and a strong, yet fluid form of it as to not make it obvious... Well, I'm getting things reversed, the chicken came before the egg in this one. So I know these three people in my life, and they're fairly obvious to me in their typing. I didn't immediately think ah-ha! Fe, but Fe dominance is a common strain, so I thought I'd share this with the forum since I noticed this peculiar interaction that I shared with each of them, and more strongly than with other people. I'm still trying to define exactly what that wall is, as a "wall" can be many things to many people. It's not a wall regarding miscommunication, or a wall as in some emotional barrier, defense mechanism, at least I don't believe so. I'm hoping I can better define this as more people share their experiences. I think what everyone has shared so far though does circulate around the same drain. I just hope there isn't too much hair to clog it up along the way.

But as I'm progressing through this discussion, I'm realizing Enneagram MUST play a large role in this too. I'd guess any function or personality trait that is well aware of the social/external environment and or climate would have at least some natural wall in place from others as they are most susceptible to recognizing it around them. It'd only be natural for them to then take on at least a bit of that for themselves, I'd think. So, as you mention, the Image triad, So dominance I'd say, Fe...I feel since so many people have at least some of these elements in their makeup that we all have this in common and is probably why some members, myself included, may feel this wall is more universal than I originally suspected.

As for EFJs being most commonly 2s and 3s, ya, all three of the EFJs I mentioned are very strong examples of a 2 or 3 haha

 

[Starry]

Hmm...when I talk about the wall, let's see if I can describe it another way. Dang...ok well the wall metaphor I used really is the best way I can draw the meaning out. These ENFJ coworkers don't start conversation around topics that would suggest they are mirroring pop culture, or don't change the topic to things of status, but what I noticed they tend to do, is to actively participate with you in the conversation in a way that feels like you are getting somewhere with them, at least superficially, like you may think to yourself, "I'm talking a lot with this person, they're saying some personal things, I MUST be forming some bond with them", but when the conversation ends, you realize no actual connection or insight was ever gained. I'm kind of dumfounded as to how they do it to be honest, because they continue the conversation on, even add their own thoughts, but somehow, I still feel I am left not knowing anything deeper about them than before.

I had only read the OP prior to responding so late last night and so now I'm going through these to get a better understanding of the phenomenon you have been experiencing.

And I just thought that I would say here now or I'll forget...



While I think what you are describing/uncovering/examining in this thread is big and complex...FJ dude. My explanation for the example above would be a fairly simple one (for ENFJs...based on the fact my family ended-up with significantly more ENFJs than what the law allows but no one really knows what to do about it I actually don't know if this translates with the ESFJs. And forgive me if this has been stated somewhere below...)


Lots of ENFJs are spread way too thin and are preoccupied and stressed and concerned about something and thinking about 500 other things...and yet still capable of carrying on a conversation with the highest degree of charm and accuracy. I just don't think they are always all there...and often use work as their check-out venue if they know their jobs well and can autopilot most aspects of it...

Obviously I could be wrong though...

 

[Starry]

This idea of a wall or front might have more to do with unconscious pick-up on societal habits. In other words if you follow the typology line of thinking and apply a concept of Fe then it's often seen as unpopular to voice an expression of emotion, or rather a negative one that might disrupt the ease of another's mind with your own emotional baggage.

I was vacationing in the old country <-Okay...let me start again.


I was at the airport in Rome...scheduled in my imagination to fly back to London. And I'll be honest with you...I don't remember any of the details of what the *problem* actually was... I lost a document or booked the wrong flight...idk. The bottom line is I messed something up...and an airline rep in the old country was doing all she could to get me on a plane to London.

And I was annoyed with myself because as we all know...you're nobody if you don't excel at making travel arrangements. And I made one of those under-your-breath wtf Starry? lame snifflaughs and shook my head...<-And holy fuck this rep from the old country...jumps up...and totally starts yelling at me. Yelling. And pointing at me in a mean way if you want the whole of it. I was so confused but soon discovered that she had thought I was shaking my head at her and was insulted to the point where full-on yelling was what she determined the occasion called for. (there was also something with a brochure or envelope that I might have bumped so it fell 5 inches from the counter to her workspace...it is all coming back to me but it's not...)

Yes. For a split second I was like "Oooooooooo you are going to get in so much trouble yelling at an innocent customer like this...?" until looking around made me hip to the fact that no one thought this was weird. No one was stiff with discomfort and fear but trying to act normal and get the fuck out of there in the spirit of "don't get involved"...nothing. Everyone was relaxed and calmly going about their business. Which started me thinking about all the other times I had been yelled at during my holiday by people in the old country. Which got me thinking...huh?...with regards to my blood relatives and yah. (haha Cellmold my grandmother was ENFJ 6 and Italian which is a hardcore combination....she charmed and terrified people in equal amounts.)

I have always suspected I might be missing a wall...or am working with the wrong kind of wall for my specific needs (haha). I don't scare people with my anger or illegal gambling rackets...at least *irl* but I offend people with the truth which doesnt make any sense to me but this is an actual thing.

According to all that you wrote...which I would like to receive academic credit for for having read... would I do better with or without a wall in proper society (if I don't go out and find my lost tribe and all things stay the same)...or do I have a wall that is merely ineffective when considering where I come from and where I am? I want to make sure I understand what you are saying...

 

[Tilt]

This is just an observation I've had with three Fe doms in my sphere of acquaintances, two ENFJ and one ESFJ, but when I talk to them, I swear, what I get or feel from them is nothing of themselves, as if there is this wall up that prevents me seeing the real them. I don't believe they are Sp doms or anything as they are all very warm and welcoming, but I definitely feel this supposed barrier that no others I know seem to possess. It sometimes feels like I am talking to a wall, where my voice echoes and reverberates. What I hear back is different and not just a mirrored projection, but it's altered. This bounce-back affect is, what I believe, is the cause of me feeling like there is this wall between me and getting to know who they really are.

This is just an observation with some theorizing here, but if anyone can add to this or give their feedback, that'd be awesome. Is Fe like this? Is this a trait of Fe??

I tend to do this, I think . ENFJ e3 sp/sx. I guess it's my way to adapt to the other person. Feel free to ask any questions.

 

[Starry]

[MENTION=25763]Enthusiastic_Dreamer[/MENTION]

I'll speak for myself here but I can't say if this will apply for other Fe-doms. It might, but I can't gaurentee it.

The wall what you speak of is a social front that stops an individual from getting any closer to me. The wall is tuneable as to what the distance is. It takes some conscious effort on my end to move it around, but it basically comes down to how much room I give the other person to reply to me. It comes in two flavors.

The first is the most simple; being short and non-emotive. If for whatever reason I do not wish to speak to someone at depth, I will often give very short replies to people that don't leave much room for follow up. Someone asking: "how's your day going? The weather is lovely today isn't it?" I could reply "It's ok, and yes the weather is quite nice." in a distant sounding, but pleasent voice, and all with no eye contact. There is a disparity between my voice tone (friendly and warm) and body language (cold and distant) that tends to leave people unsure how to go. The other has to then put up a lot of energy in order to keep conversation going. I'll engage, but the same sort of tactic will recur. There are many reasons to why I do this. The most simple one is if I am sad or in a bad mood- I don't want people catching wind of it too much or having to explain it, or I just want to be left alone and don't want to expend energy emoting.

The more complex "wall" is the social and friendly form. It takes a lot more effort, and if I am low on energy I can't do it well. It is how ever much more effective and thicker. Essentially, I'll be jovial, up front, highly emotive, but keep the conversation focused on a particular set of things. Work, the weather, a recent current event. I'll reveal myself in how I am temperment wise, but I won't let the conversation deviate when attempts are made. If it is successful and I can't reroute it, I'll remain quiet and listen, but still body language wise be very engaged.

Essentially the walls are masks that I use to protect myself and be selective what I let in and out. It's definitely my Fe doing the work, but I could see non-Fe users doing this sort of thing. Seems like a human thing to do. I just happen to be really good at it and it comes naturally.

I certainly do something similar, though far less nuanced. My default response to "How are you/How's your day going?" is "Busy". If someone comments on something like the weather like that, I might not reply at all. If I do, it is probably just with "perhaps" or "I suppose", while my attention is focused elsewhere.

I, too, am good at steering discussions where I want them to go, and more importantly, away from where I don't want them. I will even resort to smalltalk to do this if necessary,* though I prefer just to pursue an innocous topic introduced by the other person, in ways they don't expect so it requires their full attention. The friendlier version of this is to discuss freely but only in the space of abstract ideas, nothing personal.

*example:

Some years ago I was in a small German town on a college choir tour. We were all put up by local families. They were very proud of the fact that the town was half Catholic, half Protestant, and all got along well. In fact it was one of the few stops where we sang in the community center and not a church. One evening my host asked me which I was: Catholic or Protestant. Since I was raised Catholic, I answered to that effect, and we discussed that a bit. I diverted the conversation before she could ask the same of my friend. My friend was Jewish, had several relatives who died in the camps, and I knew just didn't want to get into it. Interestingly, this was all in German. Not sure I could do that now.

Have you guys ever just said stuff like...whatever is actually happening?


"Oh man I wish I could talk right now but if I don't get these reports in by noon..."


or


"Omg you know I hate talking [about] the weather!!!"


or


"You're going have to forgive me but I'm just in a shit mood and don't feel like talking..."



Or what? I'm not a complete stranger to what you describe but I've done fairly decently over the years in social situations without resorting to mind control haha no but you know. That sounds like a hell of a lot of work when the method I just described produces immediate results with so little thinking. To me the choice is clear but I don't fully understand the benefits of your strategies...

 

[Dreamer]

I had only read the OP prior to responding so late last night and so now I'm going through these to get a better understanding of the phenomenon you have been experiencing.

And I just thought that I would say here now or I'll forget...



While I think what you are describing/uncovering/examining in this thread is big and complex...FJ dude. My explanation for the example above would be a fairly simple one (for ENFJs...based on the fact my family ended-up with significantly more ENFJs than what the law allows but no one really knows what to do about it I actually don't know if this translates with the ESFJs. And forgive me if this has been stated somewhere below...)


Lots of ENFJs are spread way too thin and are preoccupied and stressed and concerned about something and thinking about 500 other things...and yet still capable of carrying on a conversation with the highest degree of charm and accuracy. I just don't think they are always all there...and often use work as their check-out venue if they know their jobs well and can autopilot most aspects of it...

Obviously I could be wrong though...

Ahh, so do you suppose my coworkers may be absent-minded to a degree? I'm often in my head a lot, but I feel like I'm super obvious about it. I will literally look off into space as if I'm looking at something real. They could be on autopilot though, that's a very real possibility. Actually, both DO seem to have tons going on in their lives. I like to be active too but dang, I need my solitude and zen time thrown into the mix, whereas they seem to be just go go go.

 

[Dreamer]

I tend to do this, I think . ENFJ e3 sp/sx. I guess it's my way to adapt to the other person. Feel free to ask any questions.

Ohhh!!!!.......sorry, I don't have any questions at the moment. I'll get back to you though!

 

[Starry]

Ahh, so do you suppose my coworkers may be absent-minded to a degree? I'm often in my head a lot, but I feel like I'm super obvious about it. I will literally look off into space as if I'm looking at something real. They could be on autopilot though, that's a very real possibility. Actually, both DO seem to have tons going on in their lives. I like to be active too but dang, I need my solitude and zen time thrown into the mix, whereas they seem to be just go go go.

"In Charge" orientation? I'm going to be very honest and say that just saying "In Charge" silently in my mind is too much pressure for me and causes me anxiety.

Every time I say "In Charge" in my head...I should take an hour of zen time.

 

[Coriolis]

I find an interesting divergence with it; you're much more direct about diverting things. I take the approach where I also make sure the person thinks they are doing it of their own volition. It makes me much more warm and personable, which I incidentally like.

I do the same thing as your example if I am with someone who may not want to talk about something. I generally don't like to assume it, but I sometimes do. Did you learn German in school? Always wanted to learn another language but I have no use of it; thus I won't learn it well.

Yes, I studied German in school, and a bit in college. I was pretty good then, but am out of practice now.

The few-word replies to casual greetings are quite direct, but when I want to divert a conversation topically, it is much less so. I will take my time with it, and tie it into things the other person has said, usually asking them appropriate open-ended questions until I have steered us well away from (or toward) what I want. It's not that I want them to think they were doing it, but rather that the conversation naturally evolved that way. The key is to make each question/step plausible. Occasionally they will realize that they aren't in Kansas any more and will say something like, "But gee - I wanted to ask you about [original topic]." The next round then involves my asking them why they are interested, what they hope to learn, why they are asking me, etc. Questions that nibble at the edges but don't really answer. I might decide based on their responses to enter the topic, but if not I now have additional fodder for bowing out, or perhaps referring them to someone else.

Have you guys ever just said stuff like...whatever is actually happening?

"Oh man I wish I could talk right now but if I don't get these reports in by noon..."

or

"Omg you know I hate talking the weather!!!"

or

"You're going have to forgive me but I'm just in a shit mood and don't feel like talking..."

Or what? I'm not a complete stranger to what you describe but I've done fairly decently over the years in social situations without resorting to mind control haha no but you know. That sounds like a hell of a lot of work when the method I just described produces immediate results with so little thinking. To me the choice is clear but I don't fully understand the benefits of your strategies...

I won't say something that isn't the truth. For instance, if I really don't wish I could talk with someone, I won't say that, though I will point out that I have pressing work to do. The strategies I mentioned are used primarily when escape is not an option, as in the example conversation with my host family. I also use them when I do want to talk to the other person but either don't want my interest in a specific topic to be obvious, or don't want to call attention to the fact that I wish to avoid a certain topic. It may sound like work, but isn't really - feels more like a game, though a serious and purposeful one.

 

[Reborn Relic]

I will say that for my part, I do the wall, but more as a defensive mechanism than an offensive one. Generally speaking, when I use it, I want to avoid coming off in a bad way rather than trying to impress or whatever--though of course, I believe everyone is trying to impress to some degree. Perhaps I do so more than I think I do.

I don't often want to do the wall, either, it's more that I feel like people will react badly to my unwalling, to an extent. I'm pretty sure this was learned behaviour rather than a natural tendency of mine, though the two do interact.