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Faith healing vs. modern medicine? (Moved from "Bible in a year" thread)

ceecee

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Then you must believe the Bible is toxic, along with the Gospel of Christ. Because Jesus heals all throughout it, and states that his followers will be able to heal as well. There are also several Greek words for healing, some mean instant healing, some mean longer healing.

I wonder if your mother always followed God's word or if she listened to physicians over God? If we choose the worldly way of doing things and forsake God's way, He will let us have our way.

This is jaw droppingly offensive. You just illustrated, in blazing color, how horrible religion and faith can be when it's twisted to interpret. Congratulations, you can stand over there with the Islamic fundamentalists who support killing for not believing.
 

Amargith

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...this looks like a BDSM relationship with God.

Except, I'm not so sure God has been informed of the fact that he's to be a Dom, nor that he's consented to that. Accidents are bound to happen if one of the two parties isn't paying attention/aware of his job :shrug:

Someone add a safe word, quick :ninja:


Edit: for that matter...if he's to be our Dom, shouldn't he feed us, clothes us, etc, as well as heal us? How is it we still have to work for a living if we don't have to take care of ourselves when we're ill ? :thinking:

Edit 2: Don't get me wrong, I'm all for holistic healing (body,mind and soul) combined with modern healing - in fact, I believe it to be the future. I've too often felt that the current system is more like treating the symptoms than the entire person which certainly has its drawbacks. Modern medicine still has a long way to go, as far as I'm concerned, but it would be ludicrous to dismiss what we know so far, as well.
 

prplchknz

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eh go time travel to before modern medicine when your beliefs would be more likely to be supported because thats the best we could do.
 

SearchingforPeace

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I do know an extremely successful ENTJ that was diagnosed with an illness where he was given less than a year to live. He had become religious in middle age and prayed about what to do. He engaged his physicians normally, but had the inspiration that a few common plants would be useful. He started a garden and mixed up a mixture daily to ingest. Within two years, he was completely healed, the doctors flabbergasted. That was 30 years ago.

I am not saying that modern medicine is wrong. I have seen great successes with it. But I wouldn't dismiss other possibilities. I have had too many doctors admit that they are mostly making educated guesses.

I feel it would be extremely arrogant to claim that modern medicine still has mountains of advances in the front and one day people will look back at many practices and think they were as crazy as using leeches......
 

Poki

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I do know an extremely successful ENTJ that was diagnosed with an illness where he was given less than a year to live. He had become religious in middle age and prayed about what to do. He engaged his physicians normally, but had the inspiration that a few common plants would be useful. He started a garden and mixed up a mixture daily to ingest. Within two years, he was completely healed, the doctors flabbergasted. That was 30 years ago.

I am not saying that modern medicine is wrong. I have seen great successes with it. But I wouldn't dismiss other possibilities. I have had too many doctors admit that they are mostly making educated guesses.

I feel it would be extremely arrogant to claim that modern medicine still has mountains of advances in the front and one day people will look back at many practices and think they were as crazy as using leeches......

We already do this today looking back at what we used to do as common practice.

We get stuck on extremes way to much and need a healthy balance. I read an joke awhile back how we are all mislead by water and how everyone who drinks water has died, how if you drink to much it will kill you from the inside among a half dozen other issue and we should avoid it at all costs. It's a main ingredient in pesticides among many other extremely toxic mixtures.
 

Poki

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My grandpa passed from cancer last year. Modern medicine helped him be able to handle the pain until he passed away. He opted to not go with any treatments due to his age, he just decided to go for pain management through modern medicine. He enjoyed his last 5-6 years of life until he passed away. Playing with his grandkids up until the last couple weeks.
 

Ivy

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My mother tried to deal with her advancing cancer and associated pain with faith. She didn't tell any of us about it; we all thought she was suffering from a digestive issue. We wanted her to go to the doctor but she refused. She traveled several hours to see a preacher who promised that miraculous and spontaneous healing was possible. (I'm not saying it's not- I'm saying even if it is, not everyone gets it, and I don't for a second believe that it's always because they're disobedient or lack faith.) She joined a local church who made similar claims. Who knows how many hours she spent praying, or having others pray over her or lay hands on her? But her pain kept getting worse and worse, until a month before she died when she was unable to make it downstairs and was screaming for my father to kill her. He called the ambulance who took her to the hospital, where she was given morphine and it was discovered (edit: actually not discovered, just revealed to the rest of us) that she had advanced pancreatic cancer that had spread to her liver and lungs. She did not stop praying, though, and she asked her church "friends" to visit her in the hospital and later at home when she was discharged with Hospice (the only way she could get the pain medication she needed to keep from being in unspeakable, unbearable pain). As it became more and more clear that she was not getting that miracle they promised, they became more and more scarce, cast aspersions on her and my father's faith, and finally ended up ignoring my father's phone calls. She was the most faithful and devout person I have ever known, and I resent the implication that she died because she was disobedient or "worldly" because nothing could be further from the truth. It's insulting, untrue, and disgusting.
 

SearchingforPeace

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No one should rely on faith alone. Sometimes the miracle is the well trained doctor who is suddenly figures out the right solution.....
 

ChocolateMoose123

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As a Christian, I think it's so important to maintain a core understanding of what "the fall of man" means: The world is secular. Our bodies are of this world. We are subject to harm, mental illness, cancer, etc.

This doesn't denote a lack of faith or demons or anything such. Bad things are no more God's fault than they are the Devils. It is simply reality. Free will of man to choose good or evil acts. Those choices affect others negatively and positively.

Spirituality is for the soul. I don't necessarily see the two as interconnected to the point where being better at faith based belief keeps you from harm, or natural bodily processes.

The point of giving isn't to get. I think that anyone saying, "I'm a good Christian why is this happening to me?" (Understandable, of course). But they may be missing the point of why they believe? Or possibly entering into a one way bargain with God where they alone drew up the contract. Leaving room for bitterness when expected results are not met.

Just because you believe doesn't mean you are owed anything in THIS life.

EDIT: This is my opinion. To each their own. Yadda Yadda.
 

Ivy

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No one should rely on faith alone. Sometimes the miracle is the well trained doctor who is suddenly figures out the right solution.....
And sometimes, because we have corruptible bodies and are human, we get cancer and die. Death is part of life, sadly, and while it hurts to have lost her, I do know that realistically there was very little that medicine could have done for her. I regret that I spent so much of her last year being upset with her for refusing to see the doctor, when she knew she had untreatable cancer and there was nothing to be gained from treating it. I do wish her pain had been better controlled.
 

ZNP-TBA

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Faith-healing or alternative healing is kind of hard to measure. It's almost always in conjunction with evidence based treatment and it's not all that uncommon for people to pull through even if their doctors are skeptical. Thus, it's hard to make a case that it was the prayer or alternative medicine aspect that cured the patient or whether it was natural with conventional healing. A true test would be the case of an amputee. If somebody's limb grew back miraculously due to prayer then that would be a very strong case for faith-based healing having some real world curative value. Faith does , however, offer patients some psychological positivity in a bad situation. It's been shown that having an optimistic state of mind does have some effect on accelerating the healing process ( but it doesn't cure cancer).
 

Riva

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My mother tried to deal with her advancing cancer and associated pain with faith. She didn't tell any of us about it; we all thought she was suffering from a digestive issue. We wanted her to go to the doctor but she refused. She traveled several hours to see a preacher who promised that miraculous and spontaneous healing was possible. (I'm not saying it's not- I'm saying not everyone gets it, and I don't for a second believe that it's always because they're disobedient or lack faith.) She joined a local church who made similar claims. Who knows how many hours she spent praying, or having others pray over her or lay hands on her? But her pain kept getting worse and worse, until a month before she died when she was unable to make it downstairs and was screaming for my father to kill her. He called the ambulance who took her to the hospital, where she was given morphine and it was discovered (edit: actually not discovered, just revealed to the rest of us) that she had advanced pancreatic cancer that had spread to her liver and lungs. She did not stop praying, though, and she asked her church "friends" to visit her in the hospital and later at home when she was discharged with Hospice (the only way she could get the pain medication she needed to keep from being in unspeakable, unbearable pain). As it became more and more clear that she was not getting that miracle they promised, they became more and more scarce, cast aspersions on her and my father's faith, and finally ended up ignoring my father's phone calls. She was the most faithful and devout person I have ever known, and I resent the implication that she died because she was disobedient or "worldly" because nothing could be further from the truth. It's insulting, untrue, and disgusting.


WTF??? These people are royal assholes.

Unless they were they moving mountains, turning water into wine and bringing dead people back to life on a day to day basis they had no right to judge others on their faith. And it's highly unlikely they were.

Perhaps their faiths were questioned due to your mother's suffering and they didn't want to face the harsh reality that faith doesn't work even to the most faithful.
 

Bush

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Just do whatever the hell works

It's not that complicated.


caveat edit: Well, actually, it is complicated. But "doing things that work" a pretty good general heuristic, no?
 

Bush

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Also, there's some sort of "I sent you a canoe, a boat, and a helicopter" aphorism that kinda-sorta applies. Maybe.
 

Poki

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Faith-healing or alternative healing is kind of hard to measure. It's almost always in conjunction with evidence based treatment and it's not all that uncommon for people to pull through even if their doctors are skeptical. Thus, it's hard to make a case that it was the prayer or alternative medicine aspect that cured the patient or whether it was natural with conventional healing. A true test would be the case of an amputee. If somebody's limb grew back miraculously due to prayer then that would be a very strong case for faith-based healing having some real world curative value. Faith does , however, offer patients some psychological positivity in a bad situation. It's been shown that having an optimistic state of mind does have some effect on accelerating the healing process ( but it doesn't cure cancer).

I am sure I can find a story of a limb growing back due to prayer and faith. Let me search the Internet and I can provide a link. I read one where a car started and drove without an engine too.
 

ZNP-TBA

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I am sure I can find a story of a limb growing back due to prayer and faith. Let me search the Internet and I can provide a link. I read one where a car started and drove without an engine too.

Go for it man.
 

Poki

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ZNP-TBA

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Many things growing back
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...MYoI0uoo5gi1fyXNA&sig2=U1fyk47UoQiyJeGhUNLbzg

Jeep without engine
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...3IO_U_EiuLXFUGutA&sig2=zuiGdb4q5FhnmAK9mOP1JQ

To easy and you paste these anywhere in alot of religious persons view and you get an instant amen and God is great he can do anything as if they believe it without question.

Just read through these. I have to be skeptical ( to say the least) about the source. I did read them fairly though. In the first source it's explicitly admitted that no limbs were grown back, just ulcers and hernia's seemingly healed with no actual documentation aside from personal testimonies of religious people.
Eh, the point is we have yet to see anyone ever grow a limb back let alone through the power of prayer. I just ask why not? Typically the deeply religious Christians in America are incredibly sympathetic to U.S. troops fighting wars overseas. Naturally they consider troops which have had their limbs blown off as heroes. If ANYONE is deserving of a reconstituted limb it would be the troops, no? Strangely, God doesn't seem to respond to limb restoration not even for a heroic U.S. soldier.

The second link was just a personal testimony with no evidence and cannot be proven or disproven just like dreaming about a pink elephant.
 
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