F Doesn't = Emotion

[virtualinsanity]

..And if you are a "Thinking" type and claim that you have "no emotions" you are either a real Sociopath or a wannabe. Saying "I have no feelings" when you really mean "I have no emotions" doesn't make you seem tough. It makes you look like an ignorant, wannabe Sociopath.
This mindset is the Cancer that won't die within the Typology community. (Typology as a whole, not this specific website.)
According to Jung, Fi gives a character a struggle with strong emotional expressions coming at them but having no emotions at all or not being emotional has nothing to do with deciding type.
Feelings are to do with convictions of right/wrong, morals, and ethical/unethical.
Getting the strong feeling that something is wrong to do isn't the same as sadness, joy, irritation, or happiness.
Emotion cannot be helped upon it first appearing. It can only be ignored, analyzed, expressed, exaggerated, or contained.
A type that uses Ti/Te in the dom or aux may become "emotional" about their systems being crossed or even an Fi/Fe value they may hold. (..You know, since we're human ..)
So how come so many people on forums, Facebook groups, and Twitter who think they're "T" types say things like:
"Ew, feelings!"
????
Do you mean :
"Ew, ethical/ moral convictions!"
Or ..
"Ew, emotions!"

I'm thinking it's the latter.
If that's not bad enough, a lot of those claiming to be "thinkers" online are overly zoomed in on how "emotionally reactive" one is getting in arguments as if this somehow validates someone is an F. Does it ever cross your mind that you're just irritating?
Furthermore, why would one by zoomed in on the emotion in such a manner if the goal of a debate/argument is what's good reasoning or not? -- Because they want to prove they're so logical that they are without "emotion." 😂
Give me a break!
Some come online to troll "feelers" then walk away as if they've accomplished something after getting banned or getting an emotional reaction out of said group. I guess it makes some feel validated in their T-ness.
Unfortunately, that's not the way things work in Typology.
A Ti user may get emotionally reactive if you question his/her analysis.
Values/Systems/Ethics/Morals spark emotional responses but also we are still humans. Things will never be so cut/dry unless you are a fixed character.
I know a lot of folks who aspire to be without emotion want it so bad to be true but being an F/T has little to do with emotions. Maybe some should look into Sociopathy/Narcissism or something.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Well, I can't speak for others, but in my case, I don't deny the presence of emotions, but I will admit my emotional intelligence leaves something to be desired. It's just not my strong suit and I'm very uncomfortable with strong displays of emotions from others, whether positive or negative, particularly when directed at me.

Some Ts liken themselves to the character Spock. While seemingly emotionless, his emotions are in fact an important part of him, even if they are kept in check and deep below his surface. He is uncomfortable with emotional displays and tends to lose control when his own emotions rise to the surface and get the better of him. Again, I can't speak for others, but I think this is why the character has resonated with me so much since I was a child.

Empathy, on the other hand, I would say have in abundance. Sometimes I get mistaken for being cold or even harsh, and I've been known to unwillingly intimidate strangers, but that apparent coldness doesn't mean I lack feeling or empathy.

 

[HisKittyKat]

Yup, pretty much true.

I think a lot of people confuse emotions with feelings. You take empathy for example. I can have empathy for a person and show some outward emotion towards their Issue ( try and mimic what I think would be the right thing to say or do in this situation outwardly )..sure this would be uncomfortable for me and isn't in my wheel house, but this doesn't mean I can't do it when trying to help another. That said this doesn't mean I feel one way or another about that problem. Does this make sense ?

My feelings are what is deep at the root of my core. My emotions are on the surface and can come out during expression. Sure they will appear somewhat shallow bc it isn't natural for me to emote externally, however I try and do the best I can with saying and doing the right thing even if I struggle.

Very few people have and do see my real feelings. My feelings are sacred, very personal and private for the most part. So very few people see what I am feeling or experience me opening up from my core. I won't share that part of myself in day to day communication unless it is with someone I trust emotionally, someone who won't Judge my strong feelings and how they affect my being overall. Fe for me is used for daily expression of things that are not really relevant , mostly during mundane chit chat or small talk. And bc I am very much aware how awkward it sounds when I express emotions, I sometimes stumble over my words leaving me feeling like a complete NOOB.

Nicely written, hope everyone reads.

 

[Hive]

All true, but the correlation between being a Feeler and being more strongly connected to and aware of your emotions is easy to observe.

Conversely, Thinkers tend to be less self aware of this stuff, and the ones least aware are the ones who spew shit like "ew, emotions".

 

[ceecee]

I just want to point out that while your argument is good, it's pretty angsty/emotional. That's just going to make hardcore typers go - Just proved my point stupid feeler! Sure, I'm a T and I'm pointing it out. Sure it's irritating that I'm pointing it out but I'm allowed to give my view on your argument, right? I'm not disagreeing with you, by the way.

Now, anyone who uses lines like...

"Ew, feelings!"
????
Do you mean :
"Ew, ethical/ moral convictions!"
Or ..
"Ew, emotions!"

...you can write off. They're idiots plus liars. Why give them any of your time? Ah, because of Values/Systems/Ethics/Morals . Because you want to fight the good fight. Because you want to right the wrongs and stop persecution of feelers. I get it. Things are never black and white no matter the case and people are far more complex than type can explain.

I'm also assuming you're relatively young and understanding of emotion for thinkers (and others) come with age and experience. Many of the regulations for emotion and maybe even change in values also come with that same age and experience. Could I stand here and say - I'm a thinker and I've had it with people treating me like a robot. I will go cry silent, invisible tears so no one will ever know I have emotions. Sure. But I don't. Because, like many people, I came to the conclusion that no one actually cares about that. Myself included. And I have bigger, more important hills to die on than F vs T. But I hope your vent helped you feel better.

 

[virtualinsanity]

All true, but the correlation between being a Feeler and being more strongly connected to and aware of your emotions is easy to observe.

Conversely, Thinkers tend to be less self aware of this stuff, and the ones least aware are the ones who spew shit like "ew, emotions".

I wonder though, if 'Feelers' type themselves based on how emotional they are vs their ethical or moral convictions.
It would be an interesting study.

 

[virtualinsanity]

I just want to point out that while your argument is good, it's pretty angsty/emotional. That's just going to make hardcore typers go - Just proved my point stupid feeler! Sure, I'm a T and I'm pointing it out. Sure it's irritating that I'm pointing it out but I'm allowed to give my view on your argument, right? I'm not disagreeing with you, by the way.

Now, anyone who uses lines like...

"Ew, feelings!"
????
Do you mean :
"Ew, ethical/ moral convictions!"
Or ..
"Ew, emotions!"

...you can write off. They're idiots plus liars. Why give them any of your time? Ah, because of Values/Systems/Ethics/Morals . Because you want to fight the good fight. Because you want to right the wrongs and stop persecution of feelers. I get it. Things are never black and white no matter the case and people are far more complex than type can explain.

I'm also assuming you're relatively young and understanding of emotion for thinkers (and others) come with age and experience. Many of the regulations for emotion and maybe even change in values also come with that same age and experience. Could I stand here and say - I'm a thinker and I've had it with people treating me like a robot. I will go cry silent, invisible tears so no one will ever know I have emotions. Sure. But I don't. Because, like many people, I came to the conclusion that no one actually cares about that. Myself included. And I have bigger, more important hills to die on than F vs T. But I hope your vent helped you feel better.

I ranted it because the ignorance is irritating.
I had a quick thought that me posting this would attract ignorant folks to call me out as a feeler but I posted it anyways because I don't care whether someone thinks I'm a feeler or not. -- That's not the point. Not only is it irrelevant due to my own knowledge of the functions..or the fact nobody knows me offline to have any validity in their claim..but I don't have any bias against being a feeler. I just think that I'm not. I've gone a couple of years thinking I was an F due to being taught ignorance, (F = emotionally reactive).. until I read what Jung had to say about the functions.. I don't particularly care for morals/ethics but common sense and analysis. ..I am still, however emotional.
I have Bipolar Disorder/Agoraphobia .. which makes me prone to acute irritability and I find myself irritated quite often at the stupidity of certain groups. (..not only in Typology but among society, mostly.) Of course this is based on subjective logic but it is still, nonetheless annoying to me but my annoyance isn't based on 'feeling' any ethical or moral thing. I just simply have a disdain for thriving ignorance. (Even inside myself..)
Emotional reactions can also come from perceptive functions or mental health issues.

I do think as one ages, such matters become less important.
I'm 27.

 

[virtualinsanity]

Well, I can't speak for others, but in my case, I don't deny the presence of emotions, but I will admit my emotional intelligence leaves something to be desired. It's just not my strong suit and I'm very uncomfortable with strong displays of emotions from others, whether positive or negative, particularly when directed at me. Some Ts liken themselves to the character Spock. While seemingly emotionless, his emotions are in fact an important part of him, even if they are kept in check and deep below his surface. He is uncomfortable with emotional displays and tends to lose control when his own emotions rise to the surface and get the better of him. Again, I can't speak for others, but I think this is why the character has resonated with me so much since I was a child. Empathy, on the other hand, I would say have in abundance. Sometimes I get mistaken for being cold or even harsh, and I've been known to unwillingly intimidate strangers, but that apparent coldness doesn't mean I lack feeling or empathy.

This sounds like the profile of an xxTJ because Jung states that Fi becomes uncomfortable or at least timid when others display "stormy" emotions...or even strong good ones...and therefore appears "cold" or indifferent.

 

[Poki]

F = feeling....lol

Whether that extends externally is the intensity mixed with how the person deals with it. We can each handle judgement feelings to differeing degrees.

 

[Population: 1]

If a feeler is being emotional about the apparent confusion or exploitation of the confusion over feeling vs. emotions it's simply because we're sick of explaining the difference or seeing people use the ignorance about the difference to their advantage.

I'm very impatient at times and dislike explaining the same thing over and over. Of course seeing someone use the feeling/emotions confusion against a feeler to incite emotions and then brand them as over emotional irks the hell out of me. As I'm sure some feelers no doubt will slap a thinker with the unemotional human automaton nonsense and when they defend themselves in a concise logical manner will say aha 'robot'. It's childish baiting.

 

[virtualinsanity]

Yup, pretty much true. I think a lot of people confuse emotions with feelings. You take empathy for example. I can have empathy for a person and show some outward emotion towards their Issue ( try and mimic what I think would be the right thing to say or do in this situation outwardly )..sure this would be uncomfortable for me and isn't in my wheel house, but this doesn't mean I can't do it when trying to help another. That said this doesn't mean I feel one way or another about that problem. Does this make sense ? My feelings are what is deep at the root of my core. My emotions are on the surface and can come out during expression. Sure they will appear somewhat shallow bc it isn't natural for me to emote externally, however I try and do the best I can with saying and doing the right thing even if I struggle. Very few people have and do see my real feelings. My feelings are sacred, very personal and private for the most part. So very few people see what I am feeling or experience me opening up from my core. I won't share that part of myself in day to day communication unless it is with someone I trust emotionally, someone who won't Judge my strong feelings and how they affect my being overall. Fe for me is used for daily expression of things that are not really relevant , mostly during mundane chit chat or small talk. And bc I am very much aware how awkward it sounds when I express emotions, I sometimes stumble over my words leaving me feeling like a complete NOOB. Nicely written, hope everyone reads.

I peeked at your profile and it says you're an "XNFP" which would make sense to me because Jung did state the Fi types are more private about this function, unless inferior Te kicks in. I also recall him writing that Fi users who seek to express, usually find ways to express good feeling, indirectly, in an objective function.
When you say strong feelings -- are you talking about your convictions of good/bad, right/wrong or emotional intensity?
As far as empathy goes -- I can be whoever someone needs me to be during a time of grief as long as the cause of grief is factually/logically fair ... Often times, I'll have to repress logic when something doesn't add up during the process due to common courtesy..(and avoiding an argument with an emotionally charged person).. However, this becomes draining/tiring for to do ..and I've a tendency towards blunt/tactlessness without any intent to offend. (Although I somehow, always do.) I like offering solutions , immediately. (If any are warranted.)

 

[Forever]

I know so many thinkers that are sooooooo emotional. Some of them you can just see squirm in their insecurity. Although I tend to see it more in TP's than TJ's.

But TJ's are more of like... once you know they're emotional... you'll know.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

This sounds like the profile of an xxTJ because Jung states that Fi becomes uncomfortable or at least timid when others display "stormy" emotions...or even strong good ones...and therefore appears "cold" or indifferent.

Yes, I may be an ISTJ, but that's a topic for a type me thread.

 

[Forever]

Yes, I may be an ISTJ, but that's a topic for a type me thread.

+1 according to this reasoning

 

[Red Ribbon]

I know so many thinkers that are sooooooo emotional. Some of them you can just see squirm in their insecurity. Although I tend to see it more in TP's than TJ's.

But TJ's are more of like... once you know they're emotional... you'll know.

Lol I agree with this. TJs are really emotional around people they know well. For the most part, I am well kept and composed but I do have the enneagram 6 persecution complex which gets me in trouble occasionally. That's the one thing that can get me bawling around like a baby. I assume people hate me sometimes though I have no proof they do and I spend most of my time trying to avoid such people. I'm working on that right now and trying to form a better understanding of how people see me. I have these moments where I have this revelation that 'huh people don't really hate me. They're all much better than I assumed they were. What a fool I have been!'

Very few things get me riled up but if you want to see me cry all you have to do is make sure something doesn't go as I planned it. Then I will throw a tantrum and act like I'm five years old. I am good at charming people when I first meet them and getting them to like me but getting someone to stay attached to me is very difficult for me. Parties and the like make me uncomfortable so I try my best not to attend them. Sad movies make me cry but 'OMG wasn't that awesome?' is going to only get a polite smile from me even if it was awesome.

I do act unrestrainedly emotional with people I love, like my family and my boyfriend and I always come across very childishly to people.

I'm still not fixed on ESTJ as my type. Maybe I am a feeling type but I honestly can't tell the difference sometimes.

 

[virtualinsanity]

Yes, I may be an ISTJ, but that's a topic for a type me thread.

My bad

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

My bad

No worries

 

[Forever]

Lol I agree with this. TJs are really emotional around people they know well. For the most part, I am well kept and composed but I do have the enneagram 6 persecution complex which gets me in trouble occasionally. That's the one thing that can get me bawling around like a baby. I assume people hate me sometimes though I have no proof they do and I spend most of my time trying to avoid such people. I'm working on that right now and trying to form a better understanding of how people see me. I have these moments where I have this revelation that 'huh people don't really hate me. They're all much better than I assumed they were. What a fool I have been!'

Very few things get me riled up but if you want to see me cry all you have to do is make sure something doesn't go as I planned it. Then I will throw a tantrum and act like I'm five years old. I am good at charming people when I first meet them and getting them to like me but getting someone to stay attached to me is very difficult for me. Parties and the like make me uncomfortable so I try my best not to attend them. Sad movies make me cry but 'OMG wasn't that awesome?' is going to only get a polite smile from me even if it was awesome.

I do act unrestrainedly emotional with people I love, like my family and my boyfriend and I always come across very childishly to people.

I'm still not fixed on ESTJ as my type. Maybe I am a feeling type but I honestly can't tell the difference sometimes.

Well, to help you with that perhaps I found that instead of asking people "do you hate me?" or "Did I do something wrong?" (not that you do) I find immediate ways in which I can help them, for example if it's your boss, take more initiative and finish more things you might not normally do at work. Or if it's a friend, randomly invite them for ice cream and say it's on you. Then if it's not too serious after a few helpings, you can be honest with them. Like as best as you can intuit what you did to offend the other person and apologize and usually by then they're so happy they're like what? (unless you cheated on someone then.. lol probably not good, again not saying that you do or did something like that)

If you think people dislike you for being overly anxious find ways to tone it down or make it much less noticeable and people usually forgive silently when they see the action stopped.

 

[Dreamer]

As a Feeler, I find no shame in being who I am and how strongly I can at times feel and understand my emotions. I'm no typical guy so gender norms be damned, but do I fit the stereotypes some Thinkers may think of Feelers, sure, at times. It doesn't bother me though, because I know where my strengths lie, and I own them. The next time a Thinker views my F within my MBTI typing as some sort of weakness, I will just shrug it off and be on my way. Those same Thinkers are also sometimes the ones that will then come right back at me when they're going through some emotional struggles or have NO idea how to sort through them and make sense of them.

As for the F not equating emotion, I get what your saying, but I also know that my personal moral code does actually stem from my emotions. I could explain how but I'll save the time in not elaborating for now. I'd say the difference between Feelers and Thinkers, well how I've explained it to others on this forum, is trust. How much trust do you out into your emotions? How much weight do you give them? And do you find them to be valid as a part of your everyday thought process? I use the word "trust" because to me, a common sentiment among Thinkers is that emotions are irrational. Simple cause and effect, and nothing more. Therefore, no time is spent in understanding and getting to know those very emotions further. Thinkers have their own strengths, and I will admit there are times I sort of envy their detachment, but the key is finding where the other has strengths that we do not have, and appreciate those strengths.

Thank you for making this thread

 

[GavinElster]

It's worth noting that, while it's true Jung didn't want the feeling function to be seen as identical to emotion, he was also pretty emphatic that it has a lot to do with it, suggesting that feeling types are strongly influenced by emotional factors, and that too much reflection vitiates feeling.

I think the cleanest way to think about what he was probably getting at is that there is such a thing as determining the appropriateness of a valuative judgment, even if it is mediated by subjective reactions. For instance, one may be led to reconsider the judgment for various reasons (say, one judged someone negatively for something, and found that the reasons weren't good). This is contrary to, say, just wincing in displeasure at being stung by a scorpion, which is minimally influenced by rational faculties. All these judgments don't strictly take the form of mere logical arrangement of concepts, and involve an interplay between feeling/idea. Jung termed these feeling-ideas.

But it's important not to get caught in a web that basically dismisses anything like feelings, emotions, or whatever from playing a role -- Jung thought subjective reactions are intimately part of the feeling functions, and his remarks on emotional factors don't suggest the matter is quite as cut and dry as some paint it on forums, when they repeat a slogan like "the feeling function ain't emotion!"

It often is suggested that thinking types can be emotional in their own way, and that makes sense, in that outbursts of emotion that don't pass through some level of reflective filter aren't typical of strong feeling functions. I suspect again, people are too cut and dry about this, in that they often associate such outbursts too readily with inferior feeling, when in reality they're probably just a symptom of being a more neurotic, easily disturbed individual.

My take tends to be that there is often a way each function plays well with each of its possible "auxiliaries" while still differentiating from them by virtue of playing well with two opposite ones. In the case of feeling, my thought is that one has to get past how things simply are to decide how they should be, and thus some speculation as to how they might be is helpful. But, on the other hand, to make a judgment of feeling, that is, to cast a value on something, at some point the speculation must end to be placed within context of a definitive reality.