[Fe] ESFJ e2 "The People's ENFP"

[thoughtlost]

oh wow. did not know we had correlated Ne to AdHD.

My enfp middle child had it starting from age 2 through 8 or 10. I had it in my toddler years, according to my mom. My mother had me on ritalin for a while, though I do not remember taking it.

My enfp just grew out of it. As did I, but I'm not sure when.

Well, we don't have to correlate the two. It is just that this is always brought up in personality forums. I am not sure how useful or accurate it is to say that they should be looked at together. If happens that they are linked then that is fine. But if not, then it get tiresome ...just like it is tiresome that people say that only right brained people can be creative.

 

[Starry]

Been watching the thread for a while now.

Here's what I generally find amongst a significant percentage of self-reported ENFPs -- little evidence of dom Ne. Plenty of evidence of Ne in a relief role, yes. But not as the primary driver of thinking patterns.

And to expand, same for self-reported INFPs. I have wondered in the past if the reported preferences for each of the NFP types is over-estimated due to misunderstandings on the nature of the Ne function. People are looking at a particular behavioural set and misattributing it to a thinking preference.

Dominant Ne is quite different. Tertiary Ne is in the more "lovable" role. There's little middle ground with dom Ne -- it either drives you crazy or you get juiced from the scattershot meandering. Society is far more accepting of tertiary Ne in general. As an INFP I can "hide" my Ne a little better than ENFPs but I still get into "trouble" due to the nature of how I think. Dom and aux Ne make a person appear more "weird" than fun and zany.

This was an awesome post Peacebaby and wish I had had my wits about me in order to say so sooner.



I'm still doing whatever I can to find a good enough reason to leave this site I'm finding it more and more difficult to be an actual member here for reasons that you and I have discussed...but I'm also finding it more and more difficult to be a part of something that is so clearly seeped in prejudice and discrimination. To the point our type isn't truly our type. Thank you for putting words to things I often can't sit still long enough to work out. It means a lot.



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[MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION] fuckin brilliant as usual.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Thank you for putting words to things I often can't sit still long enough to work out. It means a lot.

Thanks for the feedback and you are welcome. An additional thought struck me on the matter this morning too -- the conflation of emotionality with NFP. As far as self-typing goes, people experiencing strong emotions, people who feel sensitive or depressed and people who feel the occasional need to stand up for a value here and there often mistakenly type as NFP as well. All people feel these things. These are not specific indicators of NFP'ness.

Additionally, when typing others, the display of emotionality is mistaken with NFP. In real life, INFPs (and to lesser extent ENFPs) do not actually show a lot of emotion in the world. ENFPs in particular lean heavily to 7, and can come across as overly enthusiastic without balance point to the other emotions at play. An SFJ will always have what I call a "snap-back" position -- a place where, when someone has gone too far, they will very intentionally use emotions in order to reestablish order and "correct" the offending party or situation around them. ENFPs in the same place will become weepy or rebellious, without using emotions as a way of restoring order to the outside world. Emotions here for ENFPs are about overload and seep out as a way to try to self-correct.

At any rate, there's about a hundred points of light to me that signal when we're actually dealing with another type rather than NFP, but I generally say nothing out loud about it since it's not cool for an NFP to tell someone they're not NFP. And admittedly, I use myself (and others that I feel confident are NFP) to provide a template to that. It is certainly possible that my location in the "box" of NFP doesn't allow me to "see" the farthest-away location from me thinking-wise, but I do believe that there is a lot of confusion around the NFP persona and behaviour in general, and you do have a point that I feel deserves expansion in this thread. And part of your point is that NFPs (in most situations) hold those possibilities open, and don't wish to make any judgement on the matter. THAT is evidence of NFP thinking.

 

[Starry]

Thanks for the feedback and you are welcome. An additional thought struck me on the matter this morning too -- the conflation of emotionality with NFP. As far as self-typing goes, people experiencing strong emotions, people who feel sensitive or depressed and people who feel the occasional need to stand up for a value here and there often mistakenly type as NFP as well. All people feel these things. These are not specific indicators of NFP'ness.

Additionally, when typing others, the display of emotionality is mistaken with NFP. In real life, INFPs (and to lesser extent ENFPs) do not actually show a lot of emotion in the world. ENFPs in particular lean heavily to 7, and can come across as overly enthusiastic without balance point to the other emotions at play. An SFJ will always have what I call a "snap-back" position -- a place where, when someone has gone too far, they will very intentionally use emotions in order to reestablish order and "correct" the offending party or situation around them. ENFPs in the same place will become weepy or rebellious, without using emotions as a way of restoring order to the outside world. Emotions here for ENFPs are about overload and seep out as a way to try to self-correct.

At any rate, there's about a hundred points of light to me that signal when we're actually dealing with another type rather than NFP, but I generally say nothing out loud about it since it's not cool for an NFP to tell someone they're not NFP. And admittedly, I use myself (and others that I feel confident are NFP) to provide a template to that. It is certainly possible that my location in the "box" of NFP doesn't allow me to "see" the farthest-away location from me thinking-wise, but I do believe that there is a lot of confusion around the NFP persona and behaviour in general, and you do have a point that I feel deserves expansion in this thread. And part of your point is that NFPs (in most situations) hold those possibilities open, and don't wish to make any judgement on the matter. THAT is evidence of NFP thinking.

^^Awesome.

Please keep it coming as it arises. I get so frustrated with myself because...well just in this instance while reading your post I got that feeling like I figured something out and yet don't have the words to attach to it... This site is dependent on the eloquent people like yourself.

And I love this new Peacemaker avatar!

 

[Masokissed]

I think Linda from Bob's Burgers is a good example of the "People's ENFP" ESFJ.

 

[Yama]

I think Linda from Bob's Burgers is a good example of the "People's ENFP" ESFJ.

I actually like that you brought this up because when I watched Bob's Burgers I had totally pegged her as an ESFJ, then looked up what other people thought she was and they were all saying ENFP, and I was like, why? Because she's got that sort of "zany playfulness?" She's totally an ESFJ.

/I'll stop derailing the thread with talk of Bob's Burgers now lol

 

[Masokissed]

I actually like that you brought this up because when I watched Bob's Burgers I had totally pegged her as an ESFJ, then looked up what other people thought she was and they were all saying ENFP, and I was like, why? Because she's got that sort of "zany playfulness?" She's totally an ESFJ.

/I'll stop derailing the thread with talk of Bob's Burgers now lol

Exactly.

 

[cascadeco]

Million dollar question for the NFP's, Lorelei Gilmore of Gilmore Girls. I was never actually sold on ENFP for her, nor do I see ESFJ. Is ESFP possible? Or is it indeed ENFP? If so, a decent portrayal of enfp or a lousy caricature? I've seen many typings, but ENFP is common.

 

[Masokissed]

Million dollar question for the NFP's, Lorelei Gilmore of Gilmore Girls. I was never actually sold on ENFP for her, nor do I see ESFJ. Is ESFP possible? Or is it indeed ENFP? If so, a decent portrayal of enfp or a lousy caricature? I've seen many typings, but ENFP is common.

Um, I don't know about her but her daughter's ESFP. Lorelai is just too much a caricature in general to type.

 

[cascadeco]

Um, I don't know about her but her daughter's ESFP. Lorelai is just too much a caricature in general to type.

Wait... you think Rory is ESFP? That seems very odd to me, she seems clearcut IxxJ. Are you thinking Lorelei is the older woman? Lorelei is the single mom with the young kid. Just want to make sure you're thinking of the right person!

 

[Masokissed]

Wait... you think Rory is ESFP? That seems very odd to me, she seems clearcut IxxJ. Are you thinking Lorelei is the older woman? Lorelei is the single mom with the young kid. Just want to make sure you're thinking of the right person!

I was actually talking about the kid, but this was just off one video. After watching more, you're right on IxxJ.

 

[five sounds]

Bottom line: You don't just tell someone you think they're actually an ESFJ without expecting to do major psychological damage to the person right? I mean, I'm surprised this isn't an infactable offense.

At any given time, however, there are just as many (if not more) ESFJ 2s mistyped as ENFPs floatin around as there are actual ENFPs. It has always been this way and frankly it has never bothered me (or any of the other NFPs)... until I started to take notice of just how *helpful* the ESFJ 2 truly is.

In other words, these folks are generally the first to "reach out" to others in an effort to help posters with the ENFPs in their lives. They reach out to ENFPs seeking advice as well...but there appears to be a greater likelihood that these mistypes reach out to other types in an effort to answer their ENFP questions and provide advice. And they can seemingly cover a hell of a lot more ground (with what is quite often unhelpful advice) than actual ENFPs. And they do it with rainbows.

You don't just tell someone you think they're actually an ESFJ... but you sure the fuck don't tell them if they're simultaneously e2 and mistyped as ENFP because this is what the ENFP is now. These mistypes have earned the name "The People's ENFP".



I want to understand why this happens. These folks absolutely believe they are ENFPs...and so does everyone else. I have seen it where these guys are actually producing test results of ESFJ...and people will still work to convince them they are ENFP. The NFPs can see it...but no one else appears to. Why?

It's a gif of Shia LeBouf in a suit clapping furiously and the closed caption reads [clapping intensifies]

i blame the phone.

 

[five sounds]

I think it's easy to think you have dom Ne until you do and your life is a train wreck.

 

[five sounds]

I ain't no damn sensor and I certainly ain't no number 2.

I think the obvious reasons are that there are such typological biases (?) against those types. Which is a rotten shame. Cuz like you said, they possess an ability to help and invest time in a person more steadily than even a 2-fixed 7 like me who might randomly drop a decontexutalized and incomprehensible turd of advice if the thing happens to cross my path. And then ghost as soon as it goes beyond 3 exchanges or 3 paragraphs, whichever happens first.

ESFJ 2 is an ultralovely type to be. And I've found irl I usually very much get along with them.

 

[Starry]

I ain't no damn sensor and I certainly ain't no number 2.

I think the obvious reasons are that there are such typological biases (?) against those types. Which is a rotten shame. Cuz like you said, they possess an ability to help and invest time in a person more steadily than even a 2-fixed 7 like me who might randomly drop a decontexutalized and incomprehensible turd of advice if the thing happens to cross my path. And then ghost as soon as it goes beyond 3 exchanges or 3 paragraphs, whichever happens first.

ESFJ 2 is an ultralovely type to be. And I've found irl I usually very much get along with them.

[MENTION=18819]five sounds[/MENTION]

special dedication time...


I used to have unlimited access to social scientific journals where I could read about meaningful research/studies/theories in the area of MBTI (i sometimes forget that such a thing even exists and I don't know where people go on the internet to gain free access to these kinds of publications). That stuff I wrote about the 70s shift it not something I guessed at...that Suess/Thomas influence is actually associated with Ne...Suess' dominant function...

Marlo, however, is a well recognized ESFJ 2

 

[Starry]

[MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION]

 

[Tilt]

[MENTION=18819]five sounds[/MENTION]

special dedication time...


I used to have unlimited access to social scientific journals where I could read about meaningful research/studies/theories in the area of MBTI (i sometimes forget that such a thing even exists and I don't know where people go on the internet to gain free access to these kinds of publications). That stuff I wrote about the 70s shift it not something I guessed at...that Suess/Thomas influence is actually associated with Ne...Suess' dominant function...

Marlo, however, is a well recognized ESFJ 2

Many public libraries will give you free access to databases, such as EBSCO, Gale, and JSTOR, if you have a card... Although it probably is still quite limited compared to those who used to have access to academic research libraries.

 

[brainiac]

Lol no, the real ENFP will always shine through the intense scrutiny of the real INTJ - only a mistyped INTJ would ever mistake the two. Imo

 

[Starry]

Lol no, the real ENFP will always shine through the intense scrutiny of the real INTJ - only a mistyped INTJ would ever mistake the two. Imo

[MENTION=5398]Edgar[/MENTION]

What MBTI do you think I am?

 

[HongDou]

Lol no, the real ENFP will always shine through the intense scrutiny of the real INTJ - only a mistyped INTJ would ever mistake the two. Imo

If you read earlier in the thread, Starry also makes the claim that the "INTJ mystifiers" are ExFJ 2 as well.

Je feeds Je