[Fe] ESFJ e2 "The People's ENFP"

[Yama]

Well I'm obviously on the Ne/Si or Si/Ne scale. I observe myself utilizing these functions regularly. Additionally, my Ne is far too strong to be an ISFJ and my Si is too strong for me to be an ENFP. Plus, many of my insecurities and stress points could either be related to Te or Ti so both would work well as inferior functions for me. I totally fall into a sort of "Te grip" when extremely psychologically unhealthy.

I'm torn on INFP and ESFJ mostly because I'm not sure if I'm Fe or Fi. I score highly on both for assessments and people on here often see me as Fe which gives a point for ESFJ. However, by dichotomies I'm an IXXP. I act like an introvert in real life (usually very quiet in groups; need lots of time alone; get overly emotional if too many people, even friends, keep talking to me), and am very spontaneous, go with the flow, and indecisive.

Don't think of it as social introversion/extrovertion, but cognitive introversion/extroversion. What do you notice first in a group--what you're feeling or what the people around you are feeling?

 

[thepink-cloakedninja]

Don't think of it as social introversion/extrovertion, but cognitive introversion/extroversion. What do you notice first in a group--what you're feeling or what the people around you are feeling?

Ah, that might be a helpful distinction. I'll pay attention to it today.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Ne zaniness is very imaginative, individual, abstract, and unique. It can be entertaining, but can also demonstrate how the person is different from everyone else. It also tends to care less about social outcomes.

Fe zaniness plays off of social norms and connections. It might show the exact opposite of a social norm for humor, but it demonstrates awareness of those norms n the first place. It connects the person to others. It is also invested in social outcomes.

I had a friend years ago who was so incredibly Ne-dom ENFP. Her imagination was unmistakable, but similar to [MENTION=30445]thepink-cloakedninja[/MENTION]
She could make up imaginary languages on the spot, she sang silly songs about animals, always had a light, fun feeling to her and was completely at home in the abstract. Her way of viewing the world was wholly unique. I knew some other strong Ne artists later who were equally zany and had clear philosophical perspectives on life. The level of abstraction could not be mistaken for Fe in these cases and they were very off from the norm.

I don't think the difference between Ne and Fe has that much to do with social harmony because Fe can use deliberate disharmony to achieve its end, and sometimes Fi values peace in the intuitive realm, so an ENFP can value external harmony while an ESFJ values disharmony in individual cases. That isn't the way to evaluate the difference. The best way to evaluate the difference has to do with how socially invested all of the behavior is - does it always seek social outcomes, positive or negative as opposed to seeking personal outcomes aligned with values.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

You can also compare contrast Ne and Fe by the manner in which they create disharmony. It think it is more difficult to tell the difference when both are creating harmony.

Flattery and shaming are the two most socially invested forms of impacting others socially and so these are indicative of Fe because they are universally understood approaches. Ne-doms tend to prefer introducing confusion and disorientation when they troll. I've seen some online introduce such far out abstract associations in an argument that their debate opponent is left shaking their head. I've seen strong Ne introduce the least universally understood approaches.

 

[Dreamer]

You can also compare contrast Ne and Fe by the manner in which they create disharmony. It think it is more difficult to tell the difference when both are creating harmony. Flattery and shaming are the two most socially invested forms of impacting others socially and so these are indicative of Fe because they are universally understood approaches. Ne-doms tend to prefer introducing confusion and disorientation when they troll. I've seen some online introduce such far out abstract associations in an argument that their debate opponent is left shaking their head. I've seen strong Ne introduce the least universally understood approaches.

Hahaha YES! I never thought about it as a form of trolling but I guess it is, huh? I love seeing the looks on people's faces when I arrange things in the office in some bizarre way, maybe stick a donut on top of someone's computer monitor. Random stuff like that. The normal work week can be so boring otherwise.

 

[thepink-cloakedninja]

Don't think of it as social introversion/extrovertion, but cognitive introversion/extroversion. What do you notice first in a group--what you're feeling or what the people around you are feeling?

I think I notice what others are feeling, first, and then notice my reaction to how they're feeling. So I must be ESFJ by cognitive functions. Thank you for that suggestion. 'Twas very helpful.

 

[draon9]

the similarity of esfj vs enfp, both can see possibilities of the situation and both, if healthy can adapt to change in a good way and they can both sway people due to enfps te and esfj's fe. both are hardworkers.
esfjs will have tell people to do the work, instead of themselves once in charge and they rise by hierarchy, enfps rise by themselves and are a bit more of the doer than esfjs when it comes to schemes

 

[Starry]

I had a big tangent on ESFJ/ENTP amongst the people who interacted with me most often, particularly on VOIP software like vent.

The issue, I think, is my inconsistent nature and tendency to flip-flop in the way I present myself and the ideas that currently hold my attention. That would probably lead (superficially) towards many people's ideas of Ne but I joined in my mid-20's and according to the popularised idea that people follow a certain pattern of development (though it's not a rule) of the tertiary function around their mid-20's it could easily be a tertiary thing.

However I'm not very clued up with typology at the moment, except maybe a bit of the Big 5 where I have a fairly difficult relationship between high neuroticism and mid to low conscientiousness.

Neither ENTP or ESFJ really sits well with me at this point in time & I think it's hard to un-expose yourself to ideas that changed your thinking. In other words if we take type as the general patterns of development or tendencies then an EFJ might be less naturally inclined to expose themselves to certain ideas, especially ones that promote a more impersonal view of the world.

But it seems to be in the ingrained reactions of real moments without reflection that we reveal ourselves the most. Especially if you find yourself in a situation where the Fe general is being challenged by the Ti impersonal, the 'true' EFJ will probably always choose anything other than impersonal. I was characterised (and to an extent still am) by an alternating loner/seeker nature that is quite demanding in it's need for comfort when desired and solitude when desired. It's hard to confuse Si alone with repetition as the whole theory relies upon a consistency of self-hood, which is often fictitious itself, & I sadly find that I'm quite disingenuous.

There is a harsh divide between online and off which I think can be explained (however unsatisfactorily) by the nature of Fe to leave deeper considerations to some other function. I'm not saying it's empty, but it's informed by taking note of group evaluation & this means that if left to itself it cannot come up with a decent standpoint without referencing it's other functions. And particularly when coming across impersonal, logical evaluation (whether the source be Te or Ti) there's a tendency to either reject or overly accept the evaluation.
And maybe that's the biggest trap which makes it hard to examine yourself as a 'self' with regards to being EFJ; that this is less about the echos of an internal or a worldview informed by a intense emotional connection to the reactions of being & instead is about hollowing out those echos because of an ultimately irrational need to keep a species going through group information.

Simplification and not the whole picture, but the irrational is more powerful, which is why those who can harness group appeal are such great movers even if they aren't necessarily great thinkers. Appeals to emotion are powerful and instinctive, they reject reflection & reverie by their nature.
And there will always be divisions amongst people because of the baseline nature gave them. Are we just deviations from the standard template or a complex variable output based on different information with different results? A brief overview might favour the former, but just as we 'generally' have lungs, heart & brain etc... we also have variations on that template. One brain is not necessarily equal to another and we only understand flaws through similarity or lack of.

Bit of a deviation, I think I kind of went off on a tangent there.

I think with EFJs you will find independent thought strongest away from big groups and with ETP it's often strongest with it (both Se and Ne need a kind of stimulation from others, although having said that I think the parts don't always explain the whole form when it comes to Ne > Fe or Se > Fe in that order of preference so it's probably that stronger Fe in ENTP that causes the desire for devil's advocacy by bouncing off a willing participant in order to continually expand the connection network).

Being alone can also be painful for EFJs. It's usually the case that they are kept so busy in other's lives and their own that a moment of self-reflection comes very rarely and often unnaturally. It is usually also unwelcome.

Notice the prevalence for statements of 'how time flies' or 'don't they grow up fast'. It's a general unconscious reference to how our perception of time changes with age; the new is not so new and our attention is more settled and less prone to engagements of wonder with what we dub over time as the mundane, possibly from development of frontal lobes, loss of myelin & generally less plasticity in older brains.

However it could also be a product of the power of EFJs over the generalised surface of a society. Time flies because we kept ourselves so busy as to avoid the uncomfortable moment of silence inbetween activity. The kind of silence that blindsides you at 2am with thoughts of death and disaster.

We can either examine that or lock it away behind other activities and I would suggest many EFJs have a tendency to do the latter.

To keep moving right up until the last moment seems to be the aim. I know a fair few middle-aged EFJs, male and female, who suddenly shot up into outdoor activities and fitness in their mid-40's, potentially just a midlife crisis but perhaps something closer to type (once again we find the socially acknowledged generalisations 'midlife crisis' popping up).

I don't know how useful this is, I'm in information splurge mode at the moment.

Dude.

Granted I said to you the "ancient papyrus scrolls" comment... but I still worry you don't know just how much I fuckin love your posts because they really mess with the fact my inattentive ADD spun out of control a while back haha. It's like there's too much beauty and wisdom for my struggling brain to deal with. And if I can't sort through the million..."omg yes's"...in order to locate something that will demonstrate I find what you say profoundly meaningful...how will you truly know?

I find what you say to be profoundly meaningful.

Also...to the bolded...maybe we are twins that were separated at birth. Does Big5 help with this? I will now be considering the Big5.

 

[Starry]

I see that Robin Williams came up earlier. I would agree on the ESFJ as a more likely typing. For a good comparison of ENFP and ESFJ in the context of 70s comedians, I think Andy Kaufman is a better example of an eNFP. He didn't seem to give a shit if the audience wasn't always in on his jokes (incidentally, it's rare to find someone who has a middling opinion of him; he tends to be either loved or hated. Also, incidentally, I knew an SFJ guitarist I used to play music with who absolutely LOVED Kaufman--just a personal hypothesis that is completely unbacked by evidence, but I wonder if ENFP performers often find their audience in ESFJ fans). I also see Carlin typed ENFP a lot, but I'm not convinced. Convince me if you think he is an ENFP. I see ENTP as another possibility in his case; hell, Carlin may have been an ESxJ, though it doesn't seem as likely, with that undercurrent of distrust in authority running through most of his career, but that was at least partly due to the period he came up in (late 60s/early 70s saw an unprecedented level of distrust in gov't and authority emerge from all corners of society) and some of his influences like Lenny Bruce (another possible ENFP?)

What about Richard Pryor? I've seen him typed NFJ in the past.

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] [MENTION=24829]Masokissed[/MENTION] and anyone else, I am curious to hear your thoughts on Pryor, Kaufman, Bruce, and my personal hypothesis that ENFP performers find a lot of fans in ESFJs.

I would agree Anaximander with regards to Kaufman being NFP although I'm not super familiar with his work. But you said it exactly. There's often a disconnect between an NFP performer and their audience in spite of either an obvious or verbalized overarching concern for humanity (it's difficult for me to explain). They are removed somehow (I'm thinking of Kurt Cobain right now and not just because I often think of him...) NFPs frequently speak of this very thing. Like with me...I care about humanity...I care about injustice... but in no way am I inclined to want to push people in the moment. I don't have a desire to rally. I don't have a desire for a shared group experience. I want to be exactly who I am and see what side of the fence each person falls on.

I'm going to watch some youtubes of the other comedians you mentioned.

One comedian that I believe is ENFP that is too much for me...like his comedy makes me uncomfortable with how cutting it can be. Alright...now I don't fuckin remember the dudes name. I think he recently died actually. I'll come back to this.

What do you think of Seinfeld? He is typed as ENFP on Celebrity Types...but I have my doubts with him. Something's not fully coming together with that for me.

 

[OrangeAppled]

[MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION] the Celebrity Types ENFP page is one of the worst.... I definitely don't think Seinfeld is an ENFP. I'm not sure why he would be an N type at all. I thought dissecting the petty details of everyday life was his thing? This strikes me as VERY Si. ISTJs often have a sense of humor like that. They point out the absurdities of the little details in life; very observant and noticing what is illogical or ridiculous. I find them very funny when they have this tendency.

I see Jennifer Aniston as ISTJ too and find it odd that site is pegging some ISTJs as their opposite.. It relies heavily on stereotypes though and doesn't consider mentality too deeply.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Well I'm obviously on the Ne/Si or Si/Ne scale. I observe myself utilizing these functions regularly. Additionally, my Ne is far too strong to be an ISFJ and my Si is too strong for me to be an ENFP. Plus, many of my insecurities and stress points could either be related to Te or Ti so both would work well as inferior functions for me. I totally fall into a sort of "Te grip" when extremely psychologically unhealthy.

I'm torn on INFP and ESFJ mostly because I'm not sure if I'm Fe or Fi. I score highly on both for assessments and people on here often see me as Fe which gives a point for ESFJ. However, by dichotomies I'm an IXXP. I act like an introvert in real life (usually very quiet in groups; need lots of time alone; get overly emotional if too many people, even friends, keep talking to me), and am very spontaneous, go with the flow, and indecisive.

The functions are really pure types. They don't exist in a vacuum and are not understood well as pieces puzzled together where you see the seams of each; in an actual person, you see an end result as a whole personality. ExxJ in most ways are total opposites to IxxPs. ESFJs and INFPs are nearly opposite. I consider ESFJs to have an extremely foreign mentality...

I see a lot of bad typing now because people are pushed to ignore dichotomies and focus on cognitive functions only, but they usually don't understand that functions are about dynamic, not a Swiss Army knife of skills you pull out. It's more like a soup where everything is blended and you may struggle to pick out exact ingredients if you don't know the recipe. MBTI tests seek to indicate the ingredients by sort of taste testing you.

The tertiary is fused to the inferior as a part of a shadow character, so typing by it is a bad idea. An INFP doesn't "use Si", rather it will be a blind spot for much of their life. It seems like you relate to sensing with a Pe attitude - that's what Se boils down to. ISFP profiles can focus too much on the artist thing, but ISFPs are actually more of the gentle, laid back, service-oriented people and INFPs are more of the individualistic creatives. The MBTI stats back that in terms of career and stated values.

MBTI seems to indicate about 2 letters pretty well for most people, and at least 1-2 may change over time because it's unable give a clear indication based on your answers. So you consistently get IxxP, you seem settled on F (I agree), and you lean towards sensing. This heavily suggests ISFP. Your brief description here sounds like ISFP...

You are an e9 too correct? That can also lead to P typing because of the desire to not make waves. ISFJs also have a similar interaction style to IxxPs, for a J type. This might be related to being more nurturing than directing and a tendency to adapt to structure more than create it.

What the functions miss are other ways of grouping attitudes. It's worth looking at IxxP vs IxxJ as attitudes... AKA Introverted Rationals vs Introverted Irrationals in Jung's theory.

Edit - sorry for the derail...

 

[Dreamer]

I would agree Anaximander with regards to Kaufman being NFP although I'm not super familiar with his work. But you said it exactly. There's often a disconnect between an NFP performer and their audience in spite of either an obvious or verbalized overarching concern for humanity (it's difficult for me to explain). They are removed somehow (I'm thinking of Kurt Cobain right now and not just because I often think of him...) NFPs frequently speak of this very thing. Like with me...I care about humanity...I care about injustice... but in no way am I inclined to want to push people in the moment. I don't have a desire to rally. I don't have a desire for a shared group experience. I want to be exactly who I am and see what side of the fence each person falls on. I'm going to watch some youtubes of the other comedians you mentioned. One comedian that I believe is ENFP that is too much for me...like his comedy makes me uncomfortable with how cutting it can be. Alright...now I don't fuckin remember the dudes name. I think he recently died actually. I'll come back to this. What do you think of Seinfeld? He is typed as ENFP on Celebrity Types...but I have my doubts with him. Something's not fully coming together with that for me.

I think I know what you're getting at, well, I'll take a stab at it. I'll try to explain with my perspective on humanity and see if it's remotely close to what you were hoping to explain?

Alright well, I sort of see what it is and what it isn't, through my perceptions of course. Through my life experiences I've been inspired and let down by people, hurt and loved. Whenever I interact with someone, for whatever reason, that personal experience then immediately gets thrown into this broader picture of how I see people, and how I then view the world, through that very human viewpoint. I never keep that experience removed and isolated. Because I see humanity for what it is, the possibilities yet also realities, I feel I have this responsibility, as part of the human race, to... Uhh, do nothing? It sounds retarded, but I feel humanity is more this living abstract blob of stuff, comprised of billions of individuals. I'm not going to set out to change humanity because I see this blob as a sort of precious, organic thing, and messing with that just seems wrong to me. I don't know why, it just is? Essentially, whatever changes and evolutions humanity will endure, will take form of its own accord. I feel at once a part of it, yet, not. Like, I participate in the interactions and such, but I also very much feel like an observer to it all too.

Does any of this make sense?? Eh, I tried.

 

[thepink-cloakedninja]

The functions are really pure types. They don't exist in a vacuum and are not understood well as pieces puzzled together where you see the seams of each; in an actual person, you see an end result as a whole personality. ExxJ in most ways are total opposites to IxxPs. ESFJs and INFPs are nearly opposite. I consider ESFJs to have an extremely foreign mentality...

I see a lot of bad typing now because people are pushed to ignore dichotomies and focus on cognitive functions only, but they usually don't understand that functions are about dynamic, not a Swiss Army knife of skills you pull out. It's more like a soup where everything is blended and you may struggle to pick out exact ingredients if you don't know the recipe. MBTI tests seek to indicate the ingredients by sort of taste testing you.

The tertiary is fused to the inferior as a part of a shadow character, so typing by it is a bad idea. An INFP doesn't "use Si", rather it will be a blind spot for much of their life. It seems like you relate to sensing with a Pe attitude - that's what Se boils down to. ISFP profiles can focus too much on the artist thing, but ISFPs are actually more of the gentle, laid back, service-oriented people and INFPs are more of the individualistic creatives. The MBTI stats back that in terms of career and stated values.

MBTI seems to indicate about 2 letters pretty well for most people, and at least 1-2 may change over time because it's unable give a clear indication based on your answers. So you consistently get IxxP, you seem settled on F (I agree), and you lean towards sensing. This heavily suggests ISFP. Your brief description here sounds like ISFP...

You are an e9 too correct? That can also lead to P typing because of the desire to not make waves. ISFJs also have a similar interaction style to IxxPs, for a J type. This might be related to being more nurturing than directing and a tendency to adapt to structure more than create it.

What the functions miss are other ways of grouping attitudes. It's worth looking at IxxP vs IxxJ as attitudes... AKA Introverted Rationals vs Introverted Irrationals in Jung's theory.

Edit - sorry for the derail...

Hmm, that makes sense. And I'd agree that typing by tertiary functions is a bad idea, especially since I've read several places that they don't develop until one's 20s and I'm not there yet. I do relate heavily to the ISFP descriptions, but I have a hard time seeing myself as an ISFP because I am very unaware of my physical environment. I fall down stairs far more than the average person, am essentially the human incarnate of Jar Jar Binks clumsiness wise, and it has taken me months to notice things like my mom painting the kitchen cabinets.

That makes sense. Actually, I don't consistently get IxxP; I almost always get INFP or INFJ. But yes, I will do that.

 

[Starry]

I think I know what you're getting at, well, I'll take a stab at it. I'll try to explain with my perspective on humanity and see if it's remotely close to what you were hoping to explain?

Alright well, I sort of see what it is and what it isn't, through my perceptions of course. Through my life experiences I've been inspired and let down by people, hurt and loved. Whenever I interact with someone, for whatever reason, that personal experience then immediately gets thrown into this broader picture of how I see people, and how I then view the world, through that very human viewpoint. I never keep that experience removed and isolated. Because I see humanity for what it is, the possibilities yet also realities, I feel I have this responsibility, as part of the human race, to... Uhh, do nothing? It sounds retarded, but I feel humanity is more this living abstract blob of stuff, comprised of billions of individuals. I'm not going to set out to change humanity because I see this blob as a sort of precious, organic thing, and messing with that just seems wrong to me. I don't know why, it just is? Essentially, whatever changes and evolutions humanity will endure, will take form of its own accord. I feel at once a part of it, yet, not. Like, I participate in the interactions and such, but I also very much feel like an observer to it all too.

Does any of this make sense?? Eh, I tried.

Totally makes sense E_D I love it. What you describe is my baseline...my normal, resting-state understanding of the world around me.

We do differ by tritype though...yours being the loveliest of combinations and mine being a bit of an unfortunate set to have come together in a person. The human condition is often on my mind...but if people in my immediate vicinity are being harmed or exploited? Holy hell - no more baseline positive outlook for me. <-I'm trying to care more about how I come across in these moments but the truth is I can't bring myself to it. If I can't stop a wrong the nice way...I'll get ugly and it is this I do extend outwardly to humanity as I think of how many people are fearful of looking ugly and making enemies. There is some strange sense of duty here for me because I don't care if that makes sense.

I'm excited though because your post gives me an opportunity to illustrate the other point I was attempting to get at in that post you quoted using the power Grunge. Just this ESFJ connecting with the audience working hard to create a large group experience vs NFP everyone on stage and off is an individual in their own individual bubble.

^^Eddie Vedder - Pearl Jam - ESFJ

At the very beginning of this video he is concerned about the bright lights being on his audience.
He tells his audience to "stand up"
He faces his audience...he looks at his audience...and he even goes into the audience at a later point in this video.

^^Nirvana - a band made up of an INFP, xSFP and ENFP.

I selected this video for two reasons... 1.) it was a period of time that Kurt Cobain was not on drugs And 2.) there's a random seeming guy dancing in the middle of the stage that the band hired because their record label/tour people had complained numerous times that none of them engaged the audience...that none of them even moved around the stage.

^^Dave Grohl - Foo Fighters - ENFP (and a pretty extroverted one at that).


I never saw Nirvana live...but I have seen the Foo Fighters live and in spite of the fact this is not a video of an actual live show...this is exactly how he was when preforming...his eyes closed like the entire time. And I totally understand that. Like, there is no way I could concentrate on entertaining an audience and creating a group experience and play an instrument and sing at the same time. It would be too much I would have to close my eyes.

 

[Starry]

Edit - sorry for the derail...

You aren't capable of derailing. Everything you say is of high value...adds value.

 

[Dreamer]

Totally makes sense E_D I love it. What you describe is my baseline...my normal, resting-state understanding of the world around me.

We do differ by tritype though...yours being the loveliest of combinations and mine being a bit of an unfortunate set to have come together in a person. The human condition is often on my mind...but if people in my immediate vicinity are being harmed or exploited? Holy hell - no more baseline positive outlook for me. <-I'm trying to care more about how I come across in these moments but the truth is I can't bring myself to it. If I can't stop a wrong the nice way...I'll get ugly and it is this I do extend outwardly to humanity as I think of how many people are fearful of looking ugly and making enemies. There is some strange sense of duty here for me because I don't care if that makes sense.

I'm excited though because your post gives me an opportunity to illustrate the other point I was attempting to get at in that post you quoted using the power Grunge. Just this ESFJ connecting with the audience working hard to create a large group experience vs NFP everyone on stage and off is an individual in their own individual bubble.

^^Eddie Vedder - Pearl Jam - ESFJ

At the very beginning of this video he is concerned about the bright lights being on his audience.
He tells his audience to "stand up"
He faces his audience...he looks at his audience...and he even goes into the audience at a later point in this video.

^^Nirvana - a band made up of an INFP, xSFP and ENFP.

I selected this video for two reasons... 1.) it was a period of time that Kurt Cobain was not on drugs And 2.) there's a random seeming guy dancing in the middle of the stage that the band hired because their record label/tour people had complained numerous times that none of them engaged the audience...that none of them even moved around the stage.

^^Dave Grohl - Foo Fighters - ENFP (and a pretty extroverted one at that).


I never saw Nirvana live...but I have seen the Foo Fighters live and in spite of the fact this is not a video of an actual live show...this is exactly how he was when preforming...his eyes closed like the entire time. And I totally understand that. Like, there is no way I could concentrate on entertaining an audience and creating a group experience and play an instrument and sing at the same time. It would be too much I would have to close my eyes.

I love these musician comparisons! I think they highlight the differing types beautifully. Superficially the two CAN look very similar. Heck, all ENFP descriptions describe the type as super people oriented and such. It wasn't until I seriously looked into what that meant for me, and I discovered, yes, I DO like people, but for my own personal interests and curiosity. I love getting into the minds of people and figuring them out, through their emotions. It's one of the few areas I can think of where I feel both a mental high AND an emotional high, it's so trippy.

As for the treasure hidden beneath your spoiler, what I really appreciate about people like you, is that if something is amiss, something just irks you enough, you make that sentiment known, and I not only love, but admire the confidence behind that. 8s, strong Te users, really any personality type that gets shit done, encourages and inspires me to come at least a tad bit closer to what they have. Sure I may get along with people a bit easier, but when something troubles me, I hesitate and just "go along" with it since I tend to protect my feelings at all costs. I just don't want to get anywhere near anything that has the potential to damage my feelings. I'm just a cone full of soft serve. I suppose one very basic difference between you and I is, through our struggles growing up, you lept forward, and I stepped back. I will say...push me hard enough (like a LOT haha) and I'll stand up for what's right, but oh boy...it takes a LOT to get me going. Very interesting! ugh, seriously, I LOVE all this psychology junk

 

[Lady Lazarus]

Better to be hated.

 

[kotoshinohaisha]

I think my ex boyfriend is an enfp. I'm actually confused if he's esfj or enfp.

 

[kotoshinohaisha]

Esfj. Because he doesn't have NE OVERLOAD

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I would agree Anaximander with regards to Kaufman being NFP although I'm not super familiar with his work. But you said it exactly. There's often a disconnect between an NFP performer and their audience in spite of either an obvious or verbalized overarching concern for humanity (it's difficult for me to explain). They are removed somehow (I'm thinking of Kurt Cobain right now and not just because I often think of him...) NFPs frequently speak of this very thing. Like with me...I care about humanity...I care about injustice... but in no way am I inclined to want to push people in the moment. I don't have a desire to rally. I don't have a desire for a shared group experience. I want to be exactly who I am and see what side of the fence each person falls on.

I'm going to watch some youtubes of the other comedians you mentioned.

One comedian that I believe is ENFP that is too much for me...like his comedy makes me uncomfortable with how cutting it can be. Alright...now I don't fuckin remember the dudes name. I think he recently died actually. I'll come back to this.

What do you think of Seinfeld? He is typed as ENFP on Celebrity Types...but I have my doubts with him. Something's not fully coming together with that for me.

I'm not sure about Seinfeld. I got an ESTJ vibe for some reason but I will need to watch some interviews and stand-up footage. Hard to discern his television show/stand-up persona from his real life personality, and I wonder how much of his sitcom character was the "real deal" and how much was an exaggeration. He reminds me a bit of Carlin in the way he shows great bemusement with "the way things are", i.e. little social conventions that strike him as odd. He focuses a lot on semantics/word-play/terminology. Perhaps ENTP could be a possibility as well.