[ENTP] ENTP's as kids

[Saslou]

Hi.

Seriously need some advice here.

My ENTP children son is 12 yrs old. Smart, humourous if not a tad to serious for my liking . His drive and determination astounds me. His only down fall is he doesn't tell me how he feels.

I have been at his school for the last hour and sat there listening whilst absolutely dumbstruck. They thought they should bring it to my attention now that is behaviour is off the rails to the point that they are considering exclusion. WTF??? (This has been going on for 3 months apparantly).

Like i said, the kid is smart and he knows it. He is the only person i know who will find a website that most people didn't know even existed. lol. He comes home everyday and tells me what he was great at, be it PE, science etc etc.

The kid is on self destruct i have found out today. The school is going to get some outside agencies to come and have a look at him. I know he has gone through shit with me the last few months but i haven't even seen any warning bells (there was one a few months ago, but the doctor told me to sort my shit out basically, thanks doc). He is happy at home or so i thought.

How do i help a child that lets no one in? Is so stubborn only he knows best. I love him to bits, he is my son. I just don't know what to do. I know we are very different people and we handle things differently. But i am lost on this one.

Any advice would be gratefully received. Thanks.

P.S. He is currently on his keyboard, it is on full blast, and he is banging on the keys. I have asked him to come down but he doesn't want to. I think he might be embarrassed. Bless him.

 

[thisGuy]

he might need time to figure out whatever is in his head...chances are he wont actually sit still for even 2seconds...he'll always be doing something...maybe you could do something with him?

or impress him by beating him at something he told you he is good at...that'll get him off his rocker and in competition with you...ask him why hes doing things the way hes doing them as it makes zero sense to you and you would do them differently...getting him to talk about his feelings will prolly be really hard until he breaks down

thats the stuff i would do...im not even sure how you as an ESFJ would go about it... there is a slight chance you might end up undermining your authoritative role trying to get him to open up

 

[CJ99]

Well my mums an ESFJ so i guess i can get him a bit.

Don't try to hard to be the motherly caring doting mum you think you should be. I hate it when my mum does that. Just give him space and let him speak to you if he wants but i wouldn't force him into talking to you or he will just retreat more. Basically don't smother him.

If he comes and talks to you listen first then try talk back. Try really hard not to nag at all, you might not realise it but - hate to steriotype - being an ESxJ you probable will without meaning it, so try really hard not to.

Tell him exactly everything that his teacher told you and explain that he needs to calm it down or he will get expelled. Don't say the word stop. Or anything like it. Tell him just to lower it down a notch. If he knows he just needs to calm it down or be expelled he will calm down as it logical. But he probably isn't ever going to stop completely and he knows it so if you tell him to stop completely he will probably give up after a while with a "fuck it all" attitude.

Any more info on what the problem is? Is it a strict school or him just going overly rebellious?

Btw if he is playing piano leave him asi used to play guitar loudly to get out anger and it works well. And its certainly a lot less destructive than some of the other things i did to calm down. I still have dents in my door...

 

[Synarch]

He needs male role models in his life. Someone who can teach him how to channel his full energy. Most women can't do that.

 

[iwakar]

My ESFJ Mom and ENTP brother. :shakes head: She still hasn't sorted out how to deal with him except for nod and grunt when he babbles incessantly about his latest opinion and how it negates the validity of hers. He's been a true test of patience for her. I'm proud of her for it. He's helped her grow.

But he had the same issues in school and it drove her up the wall. She just buckled up for the ride.

 

[jenocyde]

I went through the same as your son - I'm going to pm you in a bit.

 

[marmandahalf]

I have an ESTJ mother and what she needed to do was appeal to logic. When I was disruptive at school, which was not that often because I'm a girl and socialization crushed a lot of that out of me, she would make vague statements about how "That's not okay" or "How would you feel if...?" None of that got through. It was like null data. ENTPs are system builders. What I needed was someone to ask me to think about the overall school system and what it needs to run optimally. Then I realized that me being a pain in the ass was unnecessary gunk in the cogs that kept it running. And since I agreed overall with the idea of schooling, though I thought many of their methods unduly pedantic, I got my act together. This is the ENTP version of sympathy. You just can't tell us that we should behave a certain way "just because." We're programmed to question statements like that.

Good luck with your son. We're hella hard to raise, but I hear we turn into mostly-awesome adults.

 

[Blackmail!]

He needs male role models in his life. Someone who can teach him how to channel his full energy. Most women can't do that.

Possibly.

Having several interesting male role models helped me a lot throughout my adolescence. Having a wide and diverse family gives a sense of belonging, even if you are very "special" yourself. It helps you define your own identity.

Because if you constantly live with the same parent everyday, chances are that you will define yourself against him/her, and it will lead to constant bickerings and fights, even if you love your son deeply. I know this may sound unfair... but nobody said life is.

 

[ThatGirl]

Dealing with ENTP children is much like dealing with ENTP adults. If you want to have him open up and talk to you about what is going on, then you need to address him as you would any other adult. Speak, not from feeling or concern, but from rationality with good intent. Don't try to be a boss or tell him what to do.

Chances are your son simply doesn't care about the effects of his actions. When ENTPs hit the self destruct button, there is little that can be done to stop them, unless it makes sense to do so.

Things I wish people would have told me:

"I can see right now that you don't seem to care about anything in life and I get why you don't see the importance in the things you are doing right now. The fact of the matter is, that even though you are still young, the decisions you make right now WILL effect you later on. You need to look at what you want for yourself and your life and start coming up with ways that you can acquire this as quickly as possible, because the truth is you are not going to be happy until you have the ability to be self sufficient.

If you want the freedom to do what you know is right and good for you with out constantly meeting resistance, then you need to focus on the fact that what you are doing right now is only putting more attention on you. The consequences of your actions are going to result in people trying to control you more, and you will end up having a miserable life.

You need to figure out what you want and need and start working toward it. Thats the only long term solution. All these things that you are creating for yourself and having to deal with, will only slow you down and make you even more unhappy. So quit acting like a child and start taking responsibility for your actions. Then people will get off your back and you wont feel the need to be destructive, which I know you know, only hurts yourself.

I am saying this because I want to see you happy. If you ever need to talk about anything or just want to do something together I am here for you."



Probably a stupid post, lol, I don't know good luck though.

 

[Blackmail!]

"I am saying this because I want to see you happy. If you ever need to talk about anything or just want to do something together I am here for you."

Here is a phrase that would have made me angrier. WAY angrier.

It's not something to say in front of some ENTP teens, even if I know I shouldn't make generalizations.

 

[ThatGirl]

Here is a phrase that would have make me angrier. WAY angrier.

It's not something to say in front of some ENTP teens, even if I know I shouldn't make generalizations.

Really? Even if it is said in a matter of fact tone of voice.

Saying something like I care and I am here for you in a way that is completely bullshit would indeed have set me off completely. But leaving a door open and not demanding anything or pretending to be overly concerned, probably would have had me eventually coming toward the person.

 

[Saslou]

Don't try to hard to be the motherly caring doting mum you think you should be. I hate it when my mum does that. Just give him space and let him speak to you if he wants but i wouldn't force him into talking to you or he will just retreat more. Basically don't smother him.

Try really hard not to nag at all, you might not realise it but - hate to steriotype - being an ESxJ you probable will without meaning it, so try really hard not to.

Tell him exactly everything that his teacher told you and explain that he needs to calm it down or he will get expelled. Don't say the word stop. Or anything like it. Tell him just to lower it down a notch. If he knows he just needs to calm it down or be expelled he will calm down as it logical. But he probably isn't ever going to stop completely and he knows it so if you tell him to stop completely he will probably give up after a while with a "fuck it all" attitude.

Any more info on what the problem is? Is it a strict school or him just going overly rebellious?

He have had a better relationship over the last few months. I give him his space which i know he requires. I am not over mommy with him. I don't bother nagging, it gets me nowhere, lol. I got him to take a kiddy personality test at the weekend and we laughed so hard as he just agreed with everything. This is why i am surprised with his behaviour, he loves the idea of being a visionary. He wants to work at Area 51 and wants to do well at school to accomplish this. Yes he has looked into how he goes about it. lol.
He was there when the teachers spoke to us. He just took a 'i don't care' kind of attitude .. They offered him help, he said no. The school seems to think it is self esteem issues but he seems happy at home.

The problem is from what he was willing to share today .. he hates his school, he wants to be back in Canada. He is hanging with a bad group of kids (all his friends are Somalian) and they talk their language out of the classroom, so he just stands with them, he knows they are bad, but doesn't seem to care. He hates my soon to be ex husband with a passion. I didn't know none of this. I just sat there and listened with my chin on the floor.

He needs male role models in his life. Someone who can teach him how to channel his full energy. Most women can't do that.

Totally agree. He loves talking technology and space stuff with my step father who is a great man. Unfortunately he lost his sister the other week and he really struggling. It is not fair i ask his help at the moment.

My ESFJ Mom and ENTP brother. :shakes head: She still hasn't sorted out how to deal with him except for nod and grunt when he babbles incessantly about his latest opinion and how it negates the validity of hers.

I think i am doing pretty well in that department. I know we have different opinions, and that's cool. I am open minded enough to listen to his views.

I have an ESTJ mother and what she needed to do was appeal to logic. When I was disruptive at school, which was not that often because I'm a girl and socialization crushed a lot of that out of me, she would make vague statements about how "That's not okay" or "How would you feel if...?" None of that got through. It was like null data. ENTPs are system builders. What I needed was someone to ask me to think about the overall school system and what it needs to run optimally. Then I realized that me being a pain in the ass was unnecessary gunk in the cogs that kept it running. And since I agreed overall with the idea of schooling, though I thought many of their methods unduly pedantic, I got my act together. This is the ENTP version of sympathy. You just can't tell us that we should behave a certain way "just because." We're programmed to question statements like that.

Good luck with your son. We're hella hard to raise, but I hear we turn into mostly-awesome adults.

I am so proud of him already and he is only 12. I can't wait to see him as an adult. . The school has said the reason they didn't contact me earlier as they thought his behaviour would change. His grades are/were really good. They did say that pre and post Canada, they have noticed one hell of a difference. Where as before he enjoyed working hard and getting the recognition. He doesn't care now. He is rude and disruptive, swearing and just being a general nuisance.

I do not want my son to waste his potential (lol, he actually wants to join this site, i have to remind him he is 12) .. I just hope he comes to some kind of conclusion in his head, and moves forward.

 

[jenocyde]

I pm'd you, but I just also want to say that I wasn't very future planning oriented when I was a kid (and still not now either). Telling me to think of my future would have been futile. Appealing to my emotions would have made me read your face to figure out exactly what I thought you needed to hear. Especially since I couldn't identify a feeling at that age if you paid me. I learned how to fake emotions from watching soap operas - I had no idea that people really felt these things, I thought everybody was acting. Give this kid more mental stimulation. When he is excited learning, he won't act out. He is most likely bored at school and bored (or stressed) at home and doesn't even realize it yet. A general lethargy and apathy. Give him something to care about that is all his. If I had been challenged more, I would have ended up on a different path.

 

[ThatGirl]

(all his friends are Somalian)

It's always the DAMN! Somalians!!!!!

I do not want my son to waste his potential (lol, he actually wants to join this site, i have to remind him he is 12)

That would be awesome, bring him to the dark side.

One of us, One of us, One of us.

 

[substitute]

I'm highly suspicious of the school's assessment - do you have any examples of this terrible behaviour?

Schools do have a habit of labelling things as "problem behaviour" when in fact it's perfectly normal and healthy - just inconvenient for their purposes. It's easier to foist the blame onto you and the kid, than to accept that they're too inflexible to accommodate different personalities and try to shoe-horn everyone into a one-size-fits-nobody system.

 

[Blackmail!]

I'm highly suspicious of the school's assessment - do you have any examples of this terrible behaviour?

Schools do have a habit of labelling things as "problem behaviour" when in fact it's perfectly normal and healthy - just inconvenient for their purposes. It's easier to foist the blame onto you and the kid, than to accept that they're too inflexible to accommodate different personalities and try to shoe-horn everyone into a one-size-fits-nobody system.

Agreed.

Schools are normative environments. And the norm is something xNxPs often have issues with.

 

[Saslou]

I pm'd you, but I just also want to say that I wasn't very future planning oriented when I was a kid (and still not now either).

Thank you, i'll read it in a min. This kid has his future mapped out. He is leaving home at 15 and moving to California. he is going to become an Actor. He has already found out what immigration forms he needs. I have reminded him that in 3 years time, them forms might not be relevant anymore. His grades are going to be brilliant so when he finishes his acting carreer he can go and work at Area 51. He knows he has to get into the American Air Force (gosh and i thought my expectations were high of myself) .. I kind of stopped paying attention after that and told him so.

Lmao.

 

[jenocyde]

Hahaha, I was going to be an astronaut - but for real. I had it all planned out as well. Oh well, the best laid plans...


EDIT: I should clarify - I thought a lot about it and did the research, but made no moves to actually implement the idea. I never really thought I would get older and I thought the chance would always be there.

 

[Blackmail!]

Thank you, i'll read it in a min. This kid has his future mapped out. He is leaving home at 15 and moving to California. he is going to become an Actor. He has already found out what immigration forms he needs. I have reminded him that in 3 years time, them forms might not be relevant anymore. His grades are going to be brilliant so when he finishes his acting carreer he can go and work at Area 51. He knows he has to get into the American Air Force (gosh and i thought my expectations were high of myself) .. I kind of stopped paying attention after that and told him so.

Lmao.

That sounds very odd for an ENTP kid.

I mean, not the grades, but the fact he acknowledges to have "his future mapped out".

---

You should remember that according to the whole theory, Jungian typology is not supposed to be made for teens. And that trying to type a young teen often gives unaccurate, false or incomplete datas.

 

[substitute]

And by the way, I didn't care about school either, because I knew that what they tell you about how it's EVERYTHING, how you can't do ANYTHING without what THEY call a good education (i.e. a state education, learning what we want you to learn in the way we want you to do it), well, I never bought it from the word Go. People said I'd regret it when I was older, but I haven't yet and I've been more successful than my swotty sister by a long way, and am happier than her too.

I think your best bet would be to support his decisions to do things his own way. If it really is more in his interest to act another way, you can bet he'll probably realize it on his own when the time's right, and will do it of his own free will.

You can lead a horse to water... but you cannot, even with a gun to their head, make an ExTP drink!

edit - another thought - I went way off the rails throughout my teens, but I don't regret it at all. It's the reason why, by the time I was 20, I had it all out of my system, knew who I was and what I was about, and was ready to settle down and knuckle down. Though people worried about me at the time I knew what I was about, and I know that it was actually the making of me.