[ENTJ] ENTJ's, Maybe just misunderstood?

[IlyaK1986]

Hah someone reported me for my last post in this thread. If someone honestly wants to take me up on my stance on ridiculing dogmas from when people thought the world was flat and that the best way to cure a person was to drain all their blood with leeches (NOT!), they can be my guest.

 

[booya moon]

Jesus was a loudmouth schmuck that got crucified. The end.

Mohammed was a pedophile that fondled little girls and murdered pregnant women and probably killed kittens and ate babies. And you have 1.2 billion people across the world believing his bullshit which he used as an excuse to do that.

Shintoism believes there are little invisible people not just living in the sky--BUT EVERYWHERE! Though frankly, I happen to think this religion is fascinating from an outside-looking-in standpoint just by how there are these tranquil temples and tiny little elaborate shrines in the most out-of-the-way beautiful places I've ever seen in photographs.

Buddhism believes that in order to stop living meaningless existences, we have to lose our humanity!

Hinduism believes in 8-armed naked women being responsible for the creation of the world.

The Greeks and Romans believed their head honcho god was the pimp of pimps that threw lightning bolts when he was drunk.

All religion is bullshit. But all but one don't try to kill people that don't believe in it.

IIyaK, you crack me up
And I don`t find your post offensive, although I am (somewhat) religious person.

 

[Bella]

Hah someone reported me for my last post in this thread. If someone honestly wants to take me up on my stance on ridiculing dogmas from when people thought the world was flat and that the best way to cure a person was to drain all their blood with leeches (NOT!), they can be my guest.

It wasn't me

 

[Kora]

Jesus was a loudmouth schmuck that got crucified. The end.

I'm sure he'll come back in the second book.

 

[Valiant]

I've got the copyright for my name That old fart will have to write "Jeebus" or something in the sequel

(EDIT: THIS WAS MY 666th POST)

 

[Kora]

I think G-Sus sounds cooler.

 

[Valiant]

Too close, could still sue him

 

[PurpleCloud]

ENTJ's misunderstood? I don't think so.

Based on the fact that most ENTJ's have great communication skills, I don't think it's likely that we are misunderstood. Most people react negatively to harsh criticism, and an overall arrogant attitude, that may be why ENTJ's think they are misunderstood, when in reality people understand them, but don't want to be around them (yes, I am generalizing).

I, for one, was raised by an INFP father, which helped me GREATLY in relating to others in a . . . less threatening manner, so to speak. I used to think certain people were not WORTHY of speaking to me, because of their abundant stupidity. But, since I thrive on challenge, I CHALLENGE myself to try to understand the psyche of every being, which in result has made me more likeable =), and in turn less fitting of the stereotype people have of ENTJ's.

Arrogance leaves no room for growth, which is what ENTJ's want in the end. . .

 

[LeonardoLestat]

The problem with ENTJs is that they usually act like they're forgiving the others. Things like blessing us with their presence, or taking the effort of listening to what we have to say and consequently correct us. And what's worse, they often won't see it.
But they can also be nice when they like someone... I guess.

We f*ck up alot when it comes to feelings and people; so we try to be accepting of f*ckups; and we are tightasses when it comes to that sometimes
That's why we look forgiving.
By nature, we are two sided people; friendlies and psycho's. We get so dark about people that we don't know who we are anymore, and we feel like we are with aliens. We get quiet...

The whole attitude of blessing you with blablabla, is to show that we are not bastards entirely and do try to adjust to your needs and be 'social'.

I remember when I was young, I had a big grudge against the world (it's still a scar I won't lose) and I could not respect the people; they also kept being bastards... so when I was nice it was in a robotic way -- I thought 'well I feel hateful even when I meet good people, so try to be nice' and it came out all fake and robotic.
Now, I can really forgive people and sometimes even open up and it's more genuine.

 

[Valiant]

Arrogance leaves no room for growth, which is what ENTJ's want in the end. . .

Depends on what growth the ENTJ in particular would want, doesn't it?
I've tried the whole "understanding retards" part several times, but it's too frustrating. I like hanging out with intelligent people, that stimulates growth for me. It might not bring out the nurturing sides of my personality, but nobody is perfect.

Some of you will believe that my view of "intelligent" would be clouded by different prejudices etc... While that is the case with one or two of the MBTI types, I don't really disfavor someone because of political opinion. My friends are a weird mix of sentients...

Best friend: Male ENFJ, 21 (same age as me), non-political, pretty rational for an NF. Most of the time. Regardless, he's intelligent and has the best social skills available.

Good friend: Male ISTJ, 22, libertarian (used to be a big racist, but age and intelligence eventually caught up with that), cynic, takes skepticism to a new level. Very, very poor social skills (pretty funny to watch). Will most likely become a serial killer sometime during his lifetime. I don't talk much about IQ, most of the time. But this guy is probably pushing 200. He's a complete freak.

Good friend: Male INTJ, 24, liberal, total geek. We became good friends a few years ago when he introduced me to roleplaying games. He's the best storyteller i've encountered. He often comes with very good advice of all kinds... But that's probably natural from an INTJ.

Good friend: Male INTP, 21, non-political, geeky INTJ's brother. The very image of a holy paladin... The guy haven't even commited sin inside his own head. Insane. He doesn't appear bright, but he spits out truth every now and then. I think that he does a lot of thinking that nobody gets to share... Kind of like "Silent Bob".
He talks a lot though, because he's socially awkward. Both brothers NT does this little thing, but they are clearly introverts.
Probably the most honest guy in Scandinavia. Sorry, girls he's taken though. His girlfriend would kill anyone who tried

Good friend: Female ENFP, couldn't spell the word politic for a thousand bucks, insanely goodlooking, very manipulative but does it more like a game, she isn't really mean at all. When I first met her, I fell in love, but learning more about her I thought "good lord! gotta stay away from that venomous spider!" too many times, so we ended up as friends. I think that she liked having someone around that wasn't enthralled by her looks, so we became good friends. She moved to a town about 80 kilometers away recently, though. Nowdays I don't meet her more than once every three months or something. Imagine her as a slightly less intelligent, blonde, illiterate CaptainChick with fangs.


Pretty varied selection... All they have in common is that they're fairly smart in some ways. Had an ISFP friend once, too, but she was mostly demanding and annoying in general, so I stopped talking to her completely. I actually hid behind a shelf at the grocery store a few days ago because I didn't want to say hello to her
I find all of them to be stimulating to be around. Knowledge and (to some degree) intelligence does rub off, I believe.

 

[Maverick]

It's a waste of time to make efforts to be appreciated by people as an ENTJ. ENTJ's are arrogant bastards. People will see through their half baked attempts at being "nice" and it's fake.

 

[Mycroft]

It's a waste of time to make efforts to be appreciated by people as an ENTJ. ENTJ's are arrogant bastards. People will see through their half baked attempts at being "nice" and it's fake.

What's more, there will always be a large swath of humanity who take the two-fold "grievance" of having direction and being competent as a personal affront, making the construction of such a facade doubly the waste of effort.

 

[PurpleCloud]

ANY type of growth requires humility. I'm not saying you should hanging out with people you deem idiotic. My comment was in general, intellectual growth, emotional growth, any kind of growth.

ANYWAYS, we are all idiotic in some sense. . . the point is admitting it. Nobody's perfect Even ENTJ's say so =)!

I must admit, though, most of my closest friends are NT's, so even though I try to relate to other people, my closest friends are usually very "intellectually active".

 

[Maverick]

Yes...

I think ENTJ's need to develop a "volume knob" and tone it down around people who don't value the same things that they do. That doesn't mean changing themselves and being super-friendly-social-nice (which they aren't and will seem fake), but rather adopting a more laid back and cool approach. Practically speaking, it means keeping their opinions for themselves, not arguing with others, giving up on controlling things, letting other people take the lead, and providing positive appreciation to others... unless otherwise required to do so (i.e. job, social role, etc.).

With other NT and/or assertive/self-confident types, the volume knob can come back up.

 

[Jae Rae]

Mav, I wish I knew you IRL. You're very wise and probably fun at parties, too.

 

[ZiL]

I know one ENTJ. He can be a total steamroller, but I admire his ability to get things done. He also upholds his values vehemently (environmental protection, taking care of others), though he doesn't seem comfortable with overt emotion.

His "volume" was set way too loud a few years ago, making hanging out with him a taxing experience, but in only a couple of hears he's mellowed a lot. He's only 19 now, so; so far he's off to a pretty good start in the maturity department.

 

[Maverick]

Mav, I wish I knew you IRL. You're very wise and probably fun at parties, too.

Thank you very much!

You're a very wise person too and I wish I knew you too IRL.

If you like people being silly, then I'm fun at parties

Cheers!

 

[rank]

Here are some examples of ENTJs gone bad.

1. Example: An ENTJ friend who likes to "mess with people's heads". He is very interested in underground art, everything about schizophrenia, crimes etc.

And he does mess people up. (Of course, ENTJs always deliver.) There's already a case who ended up in a mental institution after his intervention. The ENTJ will comment that he helped an ongoing problem to be solved. In reality, this person didn't have a problem before meeting the ENTJ.

He expresses openly at times that his favourite profession would be "serial killer".

He is extremely good at breaking and manipulating everybody around him to follow his goals. Often he aims at inventing a crime in which somebody else is the perceived evil-doer. I think he just has a strong drive to lead the masses, and so he organizes situations, in which the crowd wants to get someone - then leads the crowd to do that.

I mean, I like ENTJs in charge and follow them too, but if they invent a crisis just to be in charge, then I'm terrified. Moreover, it is shocking to see how the same ENTJ afterwards expresses sadness and empathy towards the one they set up. To me, this is just sick, very sick.

This ENTJ friend also often complains about his own tendency to break people along his way. Then he also complains that the world is full of broken people who should be erased. (i.e. he is unable to consider potential in everybody and to help them grow, instead he uses people like napkins and still complains about the human garbage around him)

2. Example: Three ENTJs in the same company. THEY CAN'T STAND EACH OTHER! It looks like there's always something organized by one of them and a huge amount of followers behind. At every moment a person should be careful to which group he is "assigned". It is ridiculous, as obviously the positions of each of those ENTJs cannot be valid at the same time, yet each one is so decisive, and has a theory why the other ENTJs are bastards.

They just have some personal way of looking at things, and they forcefully treat everything by how they see it - until reality is finally changed to match their vision of it. However, at a given moment each one of these ENTJs is wrong. So reality (in the nearby circle) just becomes a version of what's in their own heads. But this can be very dangerous, and surely introduces a lot of confusion in the world. Basically, ENTJs drive people forward, but their decisions what should be "forward" are usually based on very superficial personal experiences and narrow vision. They are like big kids who just want the world to do as they tell it (eg. Richard Branson).

3. Example: ENTJs and arts
I wish they were only in science and business. But no, they extend their mighty competencies over arts too. And since arts are about F, ENTJs insist to promote SF-art over NF-art. In fact, especially in ENTJ-produced movies, you can see NF/ST to be presented as the evil side - dirty, stupid and inefficient (check movies of Ellen Page, ENTJ). They almost always would shut out stories about "saint-like" heroes who achieve success, from rags to riches etc, as if all those are made up. And if you see something like that in their production, it always has the taste of insincerity, organized to cash in by popularity (check Simon Cowell's shows). It is impossible for an ENTJ to believe in such a story honestly, because they wouldn't be able to live such a life. So instead, they just set it up. I can assure you that the NF-audience intuitively detects this manipulation and feels like being fed plastic food by force.

4. Example: ENTJ and novelty
Appeal to novelty. Doesn't matter if it is inhumane. Doesn't matter if it will degrade society. It is novel, it will bring good income. So lets produce it. The argument is: "the masses want it, if I don't seize the opportunity, someone else will. I'm just giving them what they want, I am concerned citizen.." In many such cases that is really not true, and they practically invent new merciless addictions for society - by the time the hype is over, they move on to other areas.

5. Example: ENTJ and creativity
Really not that creative. They often think deep inspiration comes from something ugly - drugs, sex, violence... They are unable to see much other possibility for inspiration, like the hardships of life, or people's emotions. Their creativity (on their own) is by application of known elements, and probably system optimization. They read a lot, know a lot, and usually are on the tide of what is modern, but they are not the ones who come up with it.

6. Example: ENTJ and "the wolf among cows"
I've already observed a few examples - ENTJs are extremely good at picking inferior environments. Whether it is younger people, people from lower social classes, orphans (as the case in There Will Be Blood), people from third-world countries etc, they tend to spend periods of time surrounded by such people. For university they might choose a decent uni in a small town, over a great uni in a big town, just so that they feel superior to the people living there. They really enjoy internships to third-world countries, where they can feel like kings among "peasants". These experiences fill them up with energy and conviction of their utter superiority over the average humans. Then they "come back" to civilization to conquer it fast before the effect is gone.

 

[BlackCat]

This is a VERY interesting and helpful thread. It gives great, walking examples of healthy and unhealthy ENTJs. Also a lot of great insight.

 

[yenom]

I can smell Bullshit from an ENTJ 7 miles away. What power they claim to have does not mean they actually have that kind of power. But anyway. please go on.