...Enneagram Corner

[MellowMarcello]

As they say...curiousity killed the cat...so as a 5 I have to be careful about letting my fixation get the best of me...HAR HAR.

 

[garbage]

I've got a question for you, my.. friend with some number of peds.

So what's the type that kind of fears others' expectations because he feels that he has to meet them at all times and, while this has allowed him to become pretty successful, as a result, he feels undue pressure from the world around him to not make mistakes?

I think that's a pretty good Three, but I dunno.

I never thought that I fit in with the vanity and narcissism of a Three, but everything else about the profile kind of fits. Compliments just tend to make me embarrassed, though I appreciate and welcome them anyway.

Or maybe that's the perception I have of myself

 

[Thursday]

Greetings, majestic feline. I seek information on the ways of a 9w1.
Any assistance will be met with gratitude and catty behavior.

 

[MellowMarcello]

I've got a question for you, my.. friend with some number of peds.



I never thought that I fit in with the vanity and narcissism of a Three, but everything else about the profile kind of fits. Compliments just tend to make me embarrassed, though I appreciate and welcome them anyway.

Or maybe that's the perception I have of myself

I almost never use vanity or narcissism to describe type 3. Not to they they aren't those...but that it's a copout to a deeper understanding of what type 3 is all about.

 

[Delphyne]

It's strange, but the way you're wording this makes it sound like we consciously don't dig deep. Digging deep is a conscious effort for me (edited past sentence in, see? I have to consciously do it and relate it to myself). I think that yes, 9's don't dig deep at first, but that doesn't stop us from getting deep if we want to. I'm a human being, if I think about getting deep, then I will. Simple as that. That's what I do when I see my posts need some more depth, I'll give them some. Even if it's not a first instinct to do so. I find myself editing my posts to add said depth a lot.

No. Nines can consciously try to dig deep but they end up skimming the surface, because their type pattern creeps into their actions. Busy Nines will point out how much they do and how much they exert themselves. However, quantity doesn`t equal quality. It`s a way of their ego to tell them that they`re not lazy if they do all these things. In reality it just veils their passion which is sloth.

You sound like you can consciously step out of your type pattern if you work hard enough. I don`t think it`s possible. Quite the contrary, the people I`ve seen who consciously tried to better themselves with regard to their personality or spirituality all displayed their type patterns. These patterns work for the most part unconsciously, that`s why it`s so difficult to detect them. The more one tries to control them, the more they seem to gain access through the back door.

Keep in mind that on the 9 levels of health of an enneagram type (I've read about this), I related to the 1 on the 9's health level, being the best. So yeah. I think it's silly to not have a sense of self or feel that you, the individual aren't important.

Maybe you should look if another type doesn`t fit you better or at least if a one-wing suits you as MellowMarcello thought.

 

[Delphyne]

That's a good way of explaining it...though I'd add that's primarily 9w1...especially the inner peace "shattering". The w1 adds a brittle nature to the inner peace that seems one step away from shattering whereas the w8 is a more robust inner peace...more from a position of strength.

9w8 is I choose to be calm from a position of strength...9w1 is I want to hold onto being calm.

Yes, you are right, the inner peace shattering is more 9w1 than 9w8. 9w1s pay more attention to their inner peace, they are in some way more sensitive and also more easily upset. 9w8s go along with more things than 9w1s and they don`t express themselves that much. Their sloth comes up a bit differently.

 

[MellowMarcello]

Greetings, majestic feline. I seek information on the ways of a 9w1.
Any assistance will be met with gratitude and catty behavior.

Hello my bipedalled friend.

9w1s are an interesting breed. They are often unusually intellectual for a gut type. More than any other type they can either be very in touch with the subconscious or very out of touch with reality. They are similar to sixes who can be either very aggressive or very fearful.

 

[Delphyne]

When I finally did take the test, I came up with 1w9, 9w1, 1w2 and 2w3. After looking at all of these holistically (taking into account the order of variants I have) I identified closest to 9w8 because of my aggressive, persistent nature when taking on a challenge. I found the descriptions of 9w8 sx/so to have some uncanny similarities to myself, even to the point of explaining some very strong reactions that people have had to me. Considering the different variables in different types I also ruled them out.

Despite having an Eight-wing, 9w8s aren`t aggressive most of the time. That makes me wondering about you being a Nine. What kind of challenge are you talking about?

 

[statuesquechica]

Despite having an Eight-wing, 9w8s aren`t aggressive most of the time. That makes me wondering about you being a Nine. What kind of challenge are you talking about?

Delphyne: Thanks for following up on my previous post. Mostly when I refer to challenges I am talking about my work as a civil rights advocate for people in institutionalized settings. The institution obviouslly has its status quo which results in many instances of abuse/neglect. My work requires me to research laws, rules and regulations on behalf of clients. It also requires speaking directly to staff on the wards that are very opposed to the client's rights, at times being very unprofessional, in my opinion.

Personally, I am a fairly easy going individual but when faced with a challenge (intellectual, emotional, physical), I will research it exhaustively and will always be cognizant of where I have made mistakes and alter my course accordingly. I like challenges in the respect that I gain the most knowledge about myself and others through this analysis and interactions in real life. To a great extent, knowledge gives me a sense of peace; a sense of power.

As far as being aggressive, I don't mean physically aggressive, but if I see something that is inhumane, and cruel I will step forward and voice my concerns, even to the point of civil disobedience and jail.

Thanks for giving your assistance, again.

 

[BlackCat]

No. Nines can consciously try to dig deep but they end up skimming the surface, because their type pattern creeps into their actions. Busy Nines will point out how much they do and how much they exert themselves. However, quantity doesn`t equal quality. It`s a way of their ego to tell them that they`re not lazy if they do all these things. In reality it just veils their passion which is sloth.

You sound like you can consciously step out of your type pattern if you work hard enough. I don`t think it`s possible. Quite the contrary, the people I`ve seen who consciously tried to better themselves with regard to their personality or spirituality all displayed their type patterns. These patterns work for the most part unconsciously, that`s why it`s so difficult to detect them. The more one tries to control them, the more they seem to gain access through the back door.

Something is just iffy about this. You have such a "by the book" understanding of 9s. Do you know any 9w8s? Have you observed their behavior? Or have you just read about them? I know that I'm a 9w8. My other thought was 8 since I am also strong in that type, but that's just a bit silly. I'm just not going to worry about it anymore, since I know what I am and everyone I've asked outside of people that I've gotten to know personally can't help me with this or they mislead/misunderstand me further.

Maybe you should look if another type doesn`t fit you better or at least if a one-wing suits you as MellowMarcello thought.

I have friends that are into enneagram. I said to one of them "so this guy thinks I'm a 9w1" and she retorted "lmao the 8 is sooo obvious!" So I'm not going to listen to people that I've exchanged, maybe 3 or 4 posts with (Mercello and you) versus someone who has known for me several months. I am NOT a 9w1. Everyone I've talked to about enneagram has said that 9w8 suits me. This is usually after talking to them personally then moving on to discussing theory.

I'm not going to look at another type, since I know mine. Nothing else suits me better than the 9. I stated that I was a 1 on the health level of the 9, the highest one. I read this in a book, and I can't quote it exactly, but it basically said that 9's get a sense of self and realize that they matter. That they actually do go deeper. This is when they are at a level 1 of health.

Are you factoring in the instinctual variants in your judgment? Keep in mind I'm sx/so, I'm going to be different from other 9s. To quote the sx/so description I've seen-

This subtype of Nine may appear least like a stereotypical Nine because the outward sexual and social energies obscure some of the withdrawing and "zoning out" tendencies of the Nine. These Nines are the most connected and assertive of the subtypes of Nine, especially when it comes to relationships. There is still some internal struggle, as with the sexual/self-pres, but overall there is less of a tendency to withdraw. With the self-pres instinct last, this subtype can neglect self-preservational needs in favor of the intensity of their sexual instinct's pursuits. Individuals of this subtype could easily be mistaken for the dominant wing, because the sexual energy tends to flow in a manner similar to the energy of the wing. A Nine with a One wing would therefore appear more One-like and a Nine with Eight might be mistaken for an Eight.

That also explaining why I am also quite 8.

 

[MellowMarcello]

I'm not going to look at another type, since I know mine. Nothing else suits me better than the 9. I stated that I was a 1 on the health level of the 9, the highest one. I read this in a book, and I can't quote it exactly, but it basically said that 9's get a sense of self and realize that they matter. That they actually do go deeper. This is when they are at a level 1 of health.

This is very 9w1. Most types don't have that high of an opinion of their health level or don't care. The thinking you are on level 1...it fits with what I wrote about a "false holism" of 9w1s...and the 9w1 desire to "ascend" to a better state.

Realizing that they matter is anything but 8ness...even in a wing. And 9w8s find the "new age" utopian health level stuff silly just like core 8s do...they look at it and are like...yeah whatever. The 8 and 8 winger bias is to look towards themselves for answers if they choose to.

I'm guessing you are more expansive than the average 9w1 which fits with you probably being sp-last. The sx/so isn't hitting me yet but I'll wait for more.

 

[MellowMarcello]

This subtype of Nine may appear least like a stereotypical Nine because the outward sexual and social energies obscure some of the withdrawing and "zoning out" tendencies of the Nine. These Nines are the most connected and assertive of the subtypes of Nine, especially when it comes to relationships. There is still some internal struggle, as with the sexual/self-pres, but overall there is less of a tendency to withdraw. With the self-pres instinct last, this subtype can neglect self-preservational needs in favor of the intensity of their sexual instinct's pursuits. Individuals of this subtype could easily be mistaken for the dominant wing, because the sexual energy tends to flow in a manner similar to the energy of the wing. A Nine with a One wing would therefore appear more One-like and a Nine with Eight might be mistaken for an Eight.

You can't just pick any description on the net that has anecdotes that jive with you. That's selecting data to fit your desired self-image. You have look at what empirically makes a 9w8 a 9w8 and a 9w1 a 9w1.

 

[Delphyne]

Statuesquechica, I`m afraid you don`t sound very much like a 9w8 at the moment. Whereas 9w1s are passive-aggressive, 9w8s are openly angry (I don`t mean being physically aggressive, either), but it`s often a very short rage. For the most time 9w8s tend to withdraw if they don`t feel comfortable or if there`s too much quarrel going on.

If you like to going on, my next question would be if your attention is concentrated on the inhumane and cruel? Or is it more concentrated on quarrels or inconsiderateness? Every enneagram type has a certain focus of attention, that`s where my question is heading to.

Maybe you are interested in an exercise I`ve gotten to know a little while ago. It`s about the centers. If you are in a small room with a few people first bring your attention to your head, next to your heart and then to your gut, pay attention how you feel each time and notice the differences. You can also do the same while you are standing opposite to a partner and look him in the eyes while you change your focus of attention.

 

[statuesquechica]

You can't just pick any description on the net that has anecdotes that jive with you. That's selecting data to fit your desired self-image. You have look at what empirically makes a 9w8 a 9w8 and a 9w1 a 9w1.

I am wary of this as well, especially projecting as a possible 9, but there doesn't seem to be any empirical data to disinguish between the two.

 

[Delphyne]

Black Cat, yes, I know quite a few 9w8s.

I have friends that are into enneagram. I said to one of them "so this guy thinks I'm a 9w1" and she retorted "lmao the 8 is sooo obvious!" So I'm not going to listen to people that I've exchanged, maybe 3 or 4 posts with (Mercello and you) versus someone who has known for me several months. I am NOT a 9w1. Everyone I've talked to about enneagram has said that 9w8 suits me. This is usually after talking to them personally then moving on to discussing theory.

Now, I don`t know your enneagram type, but I`m a bit amused that you think you`re a level 1 Nine. Your reaction really speaks otherwise. 3 or 4 posts are enough to see that much. The most time when people think that they are some healthy version of a certain type, they`re really another type.

I'm not going to look at another type, since I know mine. Nothing else suits me better than the 9. I stated that I was a 1 on the health level of the 9, the highest one. I read this in a book, and I can't quote it exactly, but it basically said that 9's get a sense of self and realize that they matter. That they actually do go deeper. This is when they are at a level 1 of health.

Theoretically that sounds wonderful, but it`s really seldom and only after a long process. For instance, you can only encounter real courage if you have experienced fear beforehand

Are you factoring in the instinctual variants in your judgment? Keep in mind I'm sx/so, I'm going to be different from other 9s. To quote the sx/so description I've seen-

The base frame is the same for each of the stackings. Every Nine has a passion named sloth. The stackings only say in which area sloth is played for the most part.

 

[statuesquechica]

Delphyne: You are very gracious to pursue a line of questioning with me...thanks for your effort.

My attention is definitely focused on the inhumane and cruel; the issue of social justice is very near and dear to my heart. Primarily I look outward and see issues that make me angry (angry enough to yell about it, and sometimes act on it) and I suppose it could be considered a short rage, very short. I have my moments of getting on my soapbox, but then I step off and say thanks for letting me vent--people who know me understand I will always be outspoken. :steam:

When I see cruelty in the world, I am compelled to act, even to the point of putting myself in harm's way. It is something I cannot stop because my feelings are so strong. But when I recognize cruelty within myself, or someone points out my own hypocricies, I will not shy away from self-examination. I am also compelled to act and discover the ugly truths within myself. Otherwise, I cannot prevent myself from harming someone else with my inconsiderate, cruel words or actions. Of course, I can't prevent it entirely because I am human and therefore weak at times, but I must try.

Anyway, there are my musings on myself...I will try your exercise that you mentioned above.

 

[MellowMarcello]

I am wary of this as well, especially projecting as a possible 9, but there doesn't seem to be any empirical data to disinguish between the two.

What about a basic derivation to distinguish between the two? What's wrong with 9w8 is calmness(9) based from a position of strength(8)? I haven't found that anywhere and think that simplistic way of phrasing it cuts to the core of the 9w8 gestalt better than any collection of anecdotes.

In the same vein 9w1 would be calmness(9) from needing to holdtogether(1) the peace...which also cuts to the core of the 9w1 gestalt.

Or another way of phrasing it...I choose(w8) to be calm(9) vs I haveto(w1) be calm(9).

 

[Delphyne]

Statuesquechica, you are flattering me, when I`m really just curious.

From what you`ve written I would suggest to take a look at type One. The One`s passion is anger and their focus of attention goes to things which are in some ways imperfect which includes social injustices (especially social Ones). They are hard on other people because they are quick to see imperfections, but they are very sensitive if they themselves get criticized. They are normally very hard on themselves, too, and every additional critic will hurt them.

Ones often suppress their anger, but they let it out if there are good reasons, for instance, social injustices. At such times their anger drives them and they`re full of energy. 9w1s are more frightened of their anger, 9w8s don`t assert themselves that much.

If you`re a Nine or a One, either way anger will be one of your main issues. The question is what anger does to you and how does it feel to be angry.

 

[statuesquechica]

Statuesquechica, you are flattering me, when I`m really just curious.

Flattery will get you everywhere : Mae West

But seriously, I do appreciate your questions; they bring up more things to consider. I do believe I am in the northerly regions of the Enneagram, perhaps a 9 or 1w9, as repression/anger is always on my radar screen. I shall delve further.

Marcello: I will also take your comments to heart and do some more data collecting and sift it through my mind. You do deserve a treat for being such a fine feline.

 

[Costrin]

Hi I'm 5w4. Now what?