[ENFJ] ENFj's relationships!

[Domino]

Wacky INFPs! Taking over our thread! lol Don't mind at all!

What I meant by "mental toughness" of INFPs also extends to the ENFPs. Being raised with my ENFP twin sister, I've learned a lot from her about what endurance means. She's such a thing to be admired. She's taken stands against tyrannical people, and she's pushed through a tremendous amount of physical pain all her life. I'm not sure if it's the Ne/Fi combination or not, but I think it may have something to do with it. If you're trying to destroy an NFP, it'll take a while. Several of my INFP girlfriends astonish me with their resiliency, even after horrific traumas. They continue to try to remain open to life and to others in spite of what's happened to them. I think they derive great comfort from me, when I reaffirm their ideas and their validity, and their humanity, and they tell me that they feel safe and understood with me around. That's a really great feeling.

G - I think that your willingness to be open and to take a hard look at yourself is a very brave and responsible thing to do. I know it's tough, but you just keep being brave and moving forward. Things have a way of making themselves clear.

 

[BlackCat]

After having thought for a bit, this question was raised in my head. Who really IS a surefire good relationship for an ENFJ? What would be the steadiest, most reliable yet most compatible partner for an ENFJ? I'm not an ENFJ but I can't think of anything.

I think that this goes for the NFs in general, who is the sure fire good relationship? It definitely varies from person to person with their preferences and the like.

Going by the "keep the E/I" theory that's thrown around, this would be my opinion of a "steady" relationship. ISTJ + INFP just seems very steady. Not sure about ISTP + INFJ, but I hear the same from that.

As examined in other threads and in here, ESTP + ENFJ isn't exactly a reliable relationship, both people have a lot of fire inside and energy (that isn't all, but you get my point). It seems very hit and miss to me.

So what is the "reliable" and "steady" relationship for an ENFJ do you think? INFP possibly? I am also thinking maybe an ESTJ that isn't relationship stupid would be good as well.

 

[Udog]

I think that this goes for the NFs in general, who is the sure fire good relationship? It definitely varies from person to person with their preferences and the like.

That's what it boils down to. People don't know what they want in a relationship, and use the theory as a crutch. Which is fine, as long as you eventually start walking on your own, otherwise the crutch limits you.

< ANNOYING INFP OFF TOPIC >
You ask what type is best for INFP? I say there isn't any, and I also say that there are very few types that I can see being universally 'difficult' for INFP. I think I'd be miserable in a relationship with an ESTJ, whereas you would very likely be very happy in one. I need a weird blend of emotional intimacy and space, you need a powerful personality to contain and push you towards your destiny. Neither of us are E4 INFPs, yet we both have very unique needs.
</ ANNOYING INFP OFF TOPIC >

What type is best for ENFJ? It needs to be a type that can handle their emotion. They need to be able to affirm the ENFJ when they need it, appreciate the fact that an ENFJ shows love by nudging you in a positive direction, be able to handle the ENFJ power without taking advantage of their vulnerability, and not resent or become jealous of their need to harmonize with people. What types, by MBTI definition, do this romantically?

Beats me. It seems like many types are capable of those things, each doing it in their own unique way. The things the ENFJ needs most from their partner are found in individuals, not MBTI types.

 

[jtanSis1]

INFP can work if both understand how the other is. It would be magical since INFP would be white and ENFJ can be black, covering all the bases. Hey, if worse comes to worse, we could always mate each other and take a "us against the world" double black magic approach.

 

[Thursday]

Sounds nice, even considering I'm a male INFP. How many ENFJs can vouch for the validity of these descriptions?

Here here.

 

[The Grand Chameleon]

What about ENFJ-ENFJ?

 

[OrangeAppled]

What type is best for ENFJ? It needs to be a type that can handle their emotion. They need to be able to affirm the ENFJ when they need it, appreciate the fact that an ENFJ shows love by nudging you in a positive direction, be able to handle the ENFJ power without taking advantage of their vulnerability, and not resent or become jealous of their need to harmonize with people. What types, by MBTI definition, do this romantically?

Beats me. It seems like many types are capable of those things, each doing it in their own unique way. The things the ENFJ needs most from their partner are found in individuals, not MBTI types.

I always get stuck there with ENFJs. Their "harmonizing" can seem like shameless flirting and insincere flattery to me....

 

[the state i am in]

Really? I find I rile people up by doing nothing at all.
Being quiet seriously annoys many extroverts. Because we are not gregarious, we get stuck with tags like cold, aloof, rude, self-absorbed, etc. We have to make a conscious & deliberate effort to come across as friendly to people. For me, I feel like I am acting in such a scenario. It's so phony & tiring, but it's that or be called a snob. People are offended by my doing nothing when they feel I should do something. They take my independence as a slight to their company.

Being guarded and not opening up easily to people actually hurts them & makes them feel like I am not interested in being close (I am...I just take time). INFPs generally have a wall up, and behind the wall they are buried 6 ft underground and curled up in an iron clad shell. Good luck getting inside .

And now in a total contradiction of what I just said, somehow criticism is this toxic smoke that filtrates into our shells and stings like a mother, and makes us come charging out with the ammunition strapped on (& the fact that I am comparing social interaction to battle says something right there).
Our extreme sensitivity and ability to see an insult where there is none is very annoying to others. We make people walk on eggshells. Then, they still are often way off in sensing what offends us & what doesn't. It's comical when I think of how people try to avoid hurting me when what they need/want to say will not hurt me, and then they later inadvertently deeply hurt me with something they thought was harmless.

INFPs who are more frustrated in life lose the floaty, peaceful Mother Theresa persona and start fitting the dark, angsty teenager persona (no matter how old). Think "Robert Smith". Dude comes off as whiny, melodramatic, and juvenile to many people.

Lastly, we're also just weirdos who are square pegs in the round ESTJ holes.
If everyone likes blue, I like green. If everyone goes right, I go left, etc. I'm always the voice of dissent, so I just stay quiet.

I will note that besides the sensitivity thing, I've found less conflict with ENFJs in my weak areas.

i know someone who could have written this, right down to an estj manager that/who/that drove her fucking mad! very strange and artistic girl (and best Ne i've ever met) who asked you questions about your spirit animal and called people inspector gadget names like dr claw.

and maybe its weird sublimation or something, but i'm gonna ask, "please stop laughing!" we're trying our best! the reason we desire expression is so that we can better harmonize with you. this is what we do, and yes, we do it with everyone. very true. but when we get something worth keeping, we fucking know it.

I am not threatening either. I think I seem like a little doe-eyed deer in the headlights, and then I scurry away into the magical INFP la-la land forest and they have to scurry after me...and good luck catching me. Some people recognize I run away from fear, others are offended by it.

i've been offended by it in the past, i think, but it is difficult for me to tell. i can see why enfj would be so much better in this regard than infj. especially a somewhat neurotic 5 type.

the question remains tho, what is there to recognize and run away from? i can't see down that well. what type of feelings need to take things slow, protect themselves, etc? is it self-image? someone slighting the values that are important to you? hostility or dismissive in others? what does it have to do with enneagram wise (i assume you are 4w5)? what is specifically vulnerable (infps seem very sensitive but not necessarily neurotic like nfjs)? the sense of being deeply recognized and then discarded? or just getting in over your head, trying to manage your feelings and maintain consistency?

I always get stuck there with ENFJs. Their "harmonizing" can seem like shameless flirting and insincere flattery to me....

us nfjs do our best. Fe isn't the devil. it's a little more backhand down the line than a forehand across the court. we just learn how to relate to others outside of ourselves, work on externalities rahter than internal ones. the ideas and context vs content are what we keep inside. goddamned j left-brainedness.

 

[garbage]

I think ENFJ males & INFP females can be a good pairing. From my experience, ENFJs make great friends & I could see myself in a romantic relationship with one.

I'm lazy, so I'm copying a post of mine from INFPgc discussing the possible pros of INFP + ENFJ (in response to a thread on INFPs having NO match ).

coming from the ENFJ perspective...

Forer effect? I dunno, but I've been with an INFP for a while and this seems pretty spot-on.

I've taken on a mentorship role with her, especially in the areas that I used to struggle with that she is now facing, such as school and career anxiety, getting myself out into the world, and so on. This is by no means the basis for our relationship, however.

I've noticed that unhealthy ENFJs come to depend upon the other person's dependence. That is, their "need to be needed" is so strong that they are afraid of losing the other person when they are no longer dependent.. sometimes to the point of ensuring that their partner's needs still exist! This certainly doesn't help the partner--it's beyond selfish; it's malicious.

I'd been helping her in a class that she was struggling with, and she decided that she wanted to drop it. The unhealthy mindset described above would be one to pressure her into keeping it.. for my benefit. Naturally, I do want to see her realize her potential moreso than I'd want her to hold on to something just because I can assist her with it.

The last thing I would want is for someone to be dependent upon me in such a way. Codependence is not healthy.. especially as the basis for a relationship.

We also read each other very well, and she looks out for my interests as much as I do hers.

Early on in our relationship, I knew that she didn't want to burden me; I'd ask her if she wanted a glass of water, and she'd tell me that she didn't. But I stopped asking and just did it. She got the hint and was reassured that I actually did want to help.

I also noticed, especially on the night that we met, that I had to pull her back into the "real world" when she got lost in her own thoughts.

She does appreciate reassurance, too, and it's something that I readily give. I genuinely don't care if she's late to some appointment that we've made; we'll just make other arrangements. I don't care if she's not interested in coming to some event that I'm going to, since we're going to have somewhat differing interests if we are at all healthy. As she's one to apologize for any slight offense (as am I), it seems that reassurance in such a way can be a very good thing.

So, it works. Very well.


In contrast, I don't know whether I could be with someone who doesn't understand other people or their motivations, or is so stubbornly independent that they cannot accept help from even their life partner. I've tried it. Can't do it again.

 

[SpottingTrains]

What about ENFJ-ENFJ?

I think you would have to be very similar. Conducting a social orchestra to two different tunes would be quite the undertaking. I can't see this pairing working out well if each had their own distinct few of how things should function. Maybe someone with some actual experience with it could shed some light.

 

[Domino]

To me, two ENFJs together sounds like a huge mistake. I'll have them in my war room though.

 

[SpottingTrains]

To me, two ENFJs together sounds like a huge mistake. I'll have them in my war room though.

I concur!

 

[Domino]

We can stand around and high-five each other while making many loud boasts and displaying our medals and rolling our cannons about.

 

[runvardh]

*hides munitions plans*

 

[garbage]

and rolling our cannons about.

sweet


Yeah, I don't know if I see ENFJ-ENFJ going too well, unless they're pretty open-minded and lax about their perspective on what their expectations for the other person are. .. and also the codependency trap.

 

[Afkan]

Okay, so at some pt in here there was a comment about ENFJs being the most dominant socially of the NFs, and that maybe that would pose a problem for female ENFJs in relationships with male NFs.

BINGO!!!!!!!

Fascinating Facts: ENFJs and INFJs are the ONLY F-types that are role dominant as opposed to role informative. OF ALL 16 TYPES.

The diff? People who primarily communicate by informing others versus people who primarily communicate by directing others. (wikipedia)

For me, the most unlikely pair has worked- ESFJ & ENFJ.

Both, dom Fe. Which means he doesn't get jealous of my wicked ppl skills.
He is role informative, and I am role dominant, so we are able to communicate and actually get things done- make decisions- but I can still beat around the bush enough to not hurt his feelings. (my gf INFP, when around her, nothing gets accomplished- bc I am trying to respect her feelings and get her to actually TELL me in the FIRST place what she wants, and she refuses to make a decision!!! Which makes me CRAZY bc I need decisions to be made QUICKLY so that everyone can get down to work!!!)

And the SJ traditional gender role thing makes him able to be feel manly enough at his core to "lead" in the relationship w/o getting thrown off by my domineering shenanigans.

The downside is that he doesn't think that my ppl skills are as "special" as other types might. But you know what? That has been nice. At first it sucked, bc I was shocked that he didn't think I had special abilities. Heeheehee. He respects my ability to intuit in relational matters, though, and finds that special.

And for me, I've always been a little too much ego and not enough humility, so my ESFJ's practical view of things- and of me- helps me to be more realistic about my abilities and other ppls reactions. I swear I have grown more than I ever have while with this man. And to me, that's what a relationship is all abt, challenging each other and helping each other to grow.

Oh- and one more thing. I wasn't nearly as aware of the real world before I met him. That has made such a difference in my happiness. I used to think it was fun to keep my head in the clouds all the time, but then when reality set in I was ALWAYS disappointed. He won't stand for me to me unrealistic 95% of the time like I want. And that has made all of the difference for me.

 

[Domino]

Okay, so at some pt in here there was a comment about ENFJs being the most dominant socially of the NFs, and that maybe that would pose a problem for female ENFJs in relationships with male NFs.

BINGO!!!!!!!

Fascinating Facts: ENFJs and INFJs are the ONLY F-types that are role dominant as opposed to role informative. OF ALL 16 TYPES.

The diff? People who primarily communicate by informing others versus people who primarily communicate by directing others. (wikipedia)

Forgive me if I'm being redundant, but this is very interesting-- would you mind elaborating on it?

 

[Afkan]

Forgive me if I'm being redundant, but this is very interesting-- would you mind elaborating on it?

sure!!!
People who primarily communicate by informing others versus people who primarily communicate by directing others.

Communication styles. So direct form of communication is more direct, to the pt, like when someone "tells" someone to do something.

Role informative is informing, like asking someone to do something.

All F's except for ENFJ and INFJ are role informative, so they are less direct. They beat around the bush, and sometimes its difficult for me to understand what they are asking me to do. But ppl w/ role informative styles prefer others to communicate w/ them in that same way, usually.

All T's except for ENTP and INTP are role directive. Does that explain better? I'd love to answer any more q's if I have left anything out.

 

[Domino]

Very interesting! I'll have to look into that further!

 

[Glycerine]

Informative vs. Direct

"We are out of milk." vs. "Please get some more milk"
"The light is green." vs. "Go!"
"The boxes are heavy." vs. "Come help me move these boxes,"
"I am hungry." vs. "I want food now."
"That might not be the smartest thing to do." vs. "Don't do that."
"More bread would be nice." vs. "May I have more bread?"

Informative can be seen as "passive aggressive" while Direct can be seen as "bossy".