[ENFJ] ENFJ's and emotional needs?

[Domino]

i tend to see myself as needy, even if it isn't true, and had it pounded into me over the years that i was never to react to anything - good or bad - w/ any visible emotion or suffer the consequences of being "weak"... i was in a constant cycle of stifling and exploding... even now, i still take care of other peoples' feelings at my expense sometimes and don't realize i'm doing it... i've been treated like a life support system... i can say no now, after learning how, but it still leaves behind a sort of kneejerk guilt...

my mother's tabby, bonhomie, i usually go outside to see him every day... he's taken some sort of fancy to me and is a very sensitive fellow... because i've been so sick and unable to move for the last three days, i haven't been able to see him, and when i went out last night for a moment to stand on the porch, he was practically hysterical, kept pressing himself against my chest and crying and putting his face right up to mine so our noses were almost touching... even though i felt horrible, i stood out there patting him b/c it pained me to see him so upset... he's normally very sedate and patient...

if a cat can throw an emotional guilt trip on me, just imagine how people can get me...

i remember when i was starting to get sick around 19, i came into the garage a day or two after being in the ER, and my infj foreman told me that he wanted me to go home and sleep... i told him i'd be all right, but he made me sit all day in a cool spot out of the sun with plenty of water and a manual on transmissions instead of working... my entp came in with a bad head cold and what did i do? i patted him... i was just out of the hospital and i was patting *him*...

i really should stop that...

 

[TopherRed]

Dead on Target

i tend to see myself as needy, even if it isn't true, and had it pounded into me over the years that i was never to react to anything - good or bad - w/ any visible emotion or suffer the consequences of being "weak"... i was in a constant cycle of stifling and exploding... even now, i still take care of other peoples' feelings at my expense sometimes and don't realize i'm doing it... i've been treated like a life support system... i can say no now, after learning how, but it still leaves behind a sort of kneejerk guilt...

my mother's tabby, bonhomie, i usually go outside to see him every day... he's taken some sort of fancy to me and is a very sensitive fellow... because i've been so sick and unable to move for the last three days, i haven't been able to see him, and when i went out last night for a moment to stand on the porch, he was practically hysterical, kept pressing himself against my chest and crying and putting his face right up to mine so our noses were almost touching... even though i felt horrible, i stood out there patting him b/c it pained me to see him so upset... he's normally very sedate and patient...

if a cat can throw an emotional guilt trip on me, just imagine how people can get me...

i remember when i was starting to get sick around 19, i came into the garage a day or two after being in the ER, and my infj foreman told me that he wanted me to go home and sleep... i told him i'd be all right, but he made me sit all day in a cool spot out of the sun with plenty of water and a manual on transmissions instead of working... my entp came in with a bad head cold and what did i do? i patted him... i was just out of the hospital and i was patting *him*...

i really should stop that...

DING DING DING DING!!! The STORY OF MY LIFE! Tell it Pink.

And no guilt trip at all intended, but the song "Killing Me Softly [With (Her?) Song]" just came on in my head.

Thank you for understanding. Helps me pick up my cross and walk.

They key, I THINK, is not to stop having sympathy for others (unless they're sympathy fiends), but rather to find the right INFP/INTP to help you channel all that focused negativity back into the ground where it belongs...preferably somebody you can trust who's opinion of you won't change and who won't talk to other people about how you're feeling.

I have such a focused Ni that I am terrified of overwhelming even those counselors. I don't know.

 

[Domino]

fuzz - i've 'pulled my punches' w/ counselors too, as if they could never handle my intensity... at one point, i'd clammed up which totally defeated the purpose of talking it through... i know i need to talk about things, but i balk...

 

[TopherRed]

...btw, totally would've never hugged you irl, too afraid of people thinking I was trying to come on to you or something, lol.

 

[Domino]

lol but yeti hugs have to be special! screw those people! i want a yeti hug!

 

[OrangeAppled]

I think this was a good thing for me to read. I think also I am realizing being ENFJ I do initiate a lot in general since I plan ahead and just plain take charge and when it is not returned I wonder what is wrong with other people? haha. And I think my needs are not expressed clearly or verbally very often until I realize they are not met! But is it wrong to expect a 50/50 relationship in terms of give and take and initiative with communication? Where is the objective in this (any introverted thinkers??help here) so that I don't take all the blame for something that is not all my part.

I expect response to my giving with giving at some point.Working on that but for now trying to let go of some mild anger at my own expectations and giving to others.

There is nothing wrong with wanting a 50/50 relationship with give and take. That is totally normal, and most anyone (including INFPs) is capable of this if they want to be, so there's no excuse. It's not a type indicator if someone is a crappy friend. For instance, I actually feel like I've given more to a few ENFJs than they have to me, but maybe it is just my perspective on what giving is.

"Giving" can come in many forms, so you don't always get back in exactly the same way as you give. Sometimes you have to let go of expectations and recognize that people express themselves differently. If something is really important to you, then you have to vocalize it. One thing you admit to is not making your needs known right off the bat, and it's not fair to assume people know exactly what your individual needs are.

But otherwise, your feelings are perfectly valid and it's natural to feel upset when you are doing all the work in a relationship.

 

[Poki]

There is nothing wrong with wanting a 50/50 relationship with give and take. That is totally normal, and most anyone (including INFPs) is capable of this if they want to be, so there's no excuse. It's not a type indicator if someone is a crappy friend. For instance, I actually feel like I've given more to a few ENFJs than they have to me, but maybe it is just my perspective on what giving is.

"Giving" can come in many forms, so you don't always get back in exactly the same way as you give. Sometimes you have to let go of expectations and recognize that people express themselves differently. If something is really important to you, then you have to vocalize it. One thing you admit to is not making your needs known right off the bat, and it's not fair to assume people know exactly what your individual needs are.

But otherwise, your feelings are perfectly valid and it's natural to feel upset when you are doing all the work in a relationship.

I can tell you that when it comes to giving with an ENFJ it is hard for an ISTP to figure out, especially when you are close. There enjoyment is doing things for others, but doing things with them for others is not really for them. It is time spent together. This ends up comsuming alot of time so if I tag along alot of my time is spent not helping them, but helping others.

 

[file cabinet]

They key, I THINK, is not to stop having sympathy for others (unless they're sympathy fiends), but rather to find the right INFP/INTP to help you channel all that focused negativity back into the ground where it belongs...preferably somebody you can trust who's opinion of you won't change and who won't talk to other people about how you're feeling.

i am friends with an ENFJ who i have known for several years. we talk on the phone maybe once every month or two. she'll ask some questions about me but mostly i'll listen and hear about everything that's been going on in her personal life since we last talked: all the happy, frustrating and sad moments. i'll reassure where she needs reassuring or apply logic if it's needed. i value this role i have in her life and she equally values the role i provide for her.

 

[Domino]

being told you're exhausting all your life even when you're behaving yourself curtails any sort of openness...

 

[Poki]

being told you're exhausting all your life even when you're behaving yourself curtails any sort of openness...

exhausting how?

 

[Domino]

exhausting how?

beats the hell out of me

in the moments i mercifully lose awareness of myself, i get snapped back with these looks ----> ... i've been told i'm "scary" even by people who've never met me or spoken to me... my feelings are apparently WAY too much for any mortal human to endure so i get that 'calm down' speech as if i were any more irrational than any other person when justifiably upset... i've had boyfriends tell me that they love my high nature, but 'remind me to never get on your bad side' - what kind of messed up statement IS that?... like i go around scorching people for my amusement? ... like i would hurt them? EVER?!... like my anger would break anyone? WHY? because it's *mine*? and that makes it pure poison?? i can't be entirely honest b/c i'm always afraid of breaking the precious with my might horrible evil feelings... some power has been wrongly and spitefully attached to my person...

 

[TopherRed]

<---Yeti Hug

I'm laughing right now! It's not because you're feelings aren't valid or because you're a terrible person or anything horrible like that...it's because I've felt exactly the same way! Exactly!

It's like I'm Dr. Jeckle/Mr. Hyde. My "friends" all know Hyde is in there...he destroys my life and I'm constantly running to contain him when the walls that seperate the two start leaking "emo" like a dam breaking.

I used to want to explode just to drive them all away. Sometimes, I withdraw from the group by myself when I sense my tank getting full and I'm in a bad mood for the rest of the night. I can never withdraw fast enough and my stupid friends (who can't handle it anyway) always ask me what's wrong. I can't hide it completely. That alone damns me to drama hell.

I know Pink. I know. I just wish there was a way to deal with all of it so we wouldn't be exposed, and we wouldn't look bad in the draining process.

 

[Tallulah]

beats the hell out of me

in the moments i mercifully lose awareness of myself, i get snapped back with these looks ----> ... i've been told i'm "scary" even by people who've never met me or spoken to me... my feelings are apparently WAY too much for any mortal human to endure so i get that 'calm down' speech as if i were any more irrational than any other person when justifiably upset... i've had boyfriends tell me that they love my high nature, but 'remind me to never get on your bad side' - what kind of messed up statement IS that?... like i go around scorching people for my amusement? ... like i would hurt them? EVER?!... like my anger would break anyone? WHY? because it's *mine*? and that makes it pure poison?? i can't be entirely honest b/c i'm always afraid of breaking the precious with my might horrible evil feelings... some power has been wrongly and spitefully attached to my person...

Here's my theory. Some can handle your expressions, some can't. Some see venting for what it is, don't take it personally, and empathize. Others tend to internalize it, misread it, take it personally. I was talking about this last night with ENFJ friend #1, who was frustrated because some of her friends were okay with helping her physically, but bolted when she needed help emotionally. I think some people just don't know how to hear what the other person's saying, instead of reading the emotion. Also, my sister (ISTJ) gets frustrated and needs to vent in order to work out her frustration and come up with a plan. She can't vent to my mom, because my mom just hears * danger! raised voice! anger! * and can't detach enough to see it for what it is (which is not directed at her).

I actually can take a lot of anger and frustration and emotion if it's not directed *at* me.

 

[TopherRed]

Here's my theory. Some can handle your expressions, some can't. Some see venting for what it is, don't take it personally, and empathize. Others tend to internalize it, misread it, take it personally. I was talking about this last night with ENFJ friend #1, who was frustrated because some of her friends were okay with helping her physically, but bolted when she needed help emotionally. I think some people just don't know how to hear what the other person's saying, instead of reading the emotion. Also, my sister (ISTJ) gets frustrated and needs to vent in order to work out her frustration and come up with a plan. She can't vent to my mom, because my mom just hears * danger! raised voice! anger! * and can't detach enough to see it for what it is (which is not directed at her).

I actually can take a lot of anger and frustration and emotion if it's not directed *at* me.

Mmm...well said.

 

[Domino]

locking and loading on people who don't deserve the anger or being yelled at is irresponsible and traumatizing... i hate it when it's done to me, and i can't conscience doing it to my friends/family... i have a male friend who's generally wonderful but takes every raised voice as 'you're mad at ME' when it has nothing to do with him and you just need to have someone listen and help you work things out... i never understood that...

i remember feeling really truly comfortable for the first time in my life with my intj best friend (on a day to day level b/c he's so chill, kind and problem-solver-y) and with my istp best friend (because he was never afraid of me or cowed by my solar flares)... my girlfriends aren't afraid of me either and when i'm really upset or hurt, they tell me to just let it rip and get it all out... it causes a few seismic disturbances noted by migrating whales, but when the smoke clears, i feel better, understood, calm... i return the favor for them when they're pulling their own hair out...

*scoops tallulah into a bag for shiny object collection*


fuzz - the jekyll/hyde thing is endemic, i think... i was just discussing this with my sister last night... she asked if all nfjs had that pronounced flip in their nature, and i couldn't think of a single one who didn't....

 

[TheEmeraldCanopy]

What can an INFP do to prove to an ENFJ that she/he is not an emotionless void and really does care?

 

[Thursday]

What can an INFP do to prove to an ENFJ that she/he is not an emotionless void and really does care?

Its the little smiles and the rotating hands that are reaching out for a hug that do it for mua.
Or actions - like making time to come and talk to me or sharing something that you believe in with me
your music preferences would do fine - sharing and such

 

[TopherRed]

*scoops tallulah into a bag for shiny object collection*

Hey, no fair! Don't hog all the Tallulah!

 

[Poki]

I generally have no problems with ENFJ or anyone in that matter flipping out and venting with me about someone else, but just know that when the flipping out is for something I did and you are taking it out on me, I will listen to what you say, but eventually my J comes out and I will just ignore everything because I realize you are running on emotions and going rampant with venting and I am not gonna let that fuel any more emotions within me since it is about me because they would be turned back towards you. It drives my wife nuts when I hit ignore mode. I will listen to anything and everything she has to vent about with problems she has with other people. Sometimes I try and dig deeper. Alot of the times she has problems with people who are just like me and I try and explain why they did what they did which is invalidating her feelings and drives her nuts.

If you want to yell at an ISTP do it and get it over with, we can calmly discuss it later when emotions have simmered down.

 

[TopherRed]

I generally have no problems with ENFJ or anyone in that matter flipping out and venting with me about someone else, but just know that when the flipping out is for something I did and you are taking it out on me, I will listen to what you say, but eventually my J comes out and I will just ignore everything because I realize you are running on emotions and going rampant with venting and I am not gonna let that fuel any more emotions within me since it is about me because they would be turned back towards you. It drives my wife nuts when I hit ignore mode. I will listen to anything and everything she has to vent about with problems she has with other people. Sometimes I try and dig deeper. Alot of the times she has problems with people who are just like me and I try and explain why they did what they did which is invalidating her feelings and drives her nuts.

If you want to yell at an ISTP do it and get it over with, we can calmly discuss it later when emotions have simmered down.

*squints*
*examines statement carefully*

Just like you, eh? If I may ask, how old is she? I've spent most of my life dealing with SJs who were neither sensitive, nor really all that caring...seems she might be having sensor burn out and she might not have anyone healthy to vent it to.

A couple things, if I may make suggestions.
1. She's your wife. That means, when she's venting about others, she's not really looking for information, but rather, for a supportive sounding board. If you work on actively listening to the emotions involved and comfort her (put your arm around her, stroke her hair, [some guys even comb it], this may help to calm her down and realize, even if you think she's freaking out for stupid reasons, that you've got her back and that you love her, more than you want her to be logical.
---Ironically, this will eventually cause her to ask you for your advice about the situation anyway, to which, if possible, still be understanding of her feelings, but explain the mindset from whence you think the persons who aggitated her were coming from. I can't speak for all ENFJs, but I know after I've spent my emotional reserves with someone who didn't throw the illogicality of it all back in my face, and I knew that person could help me handle the situation better in the future, I would ask that person how I may improve my repore the next time I come across a similar situation with similar people doing similar things.

BONUS- *This may also lead to sex*. Just letting you know. In fact, after you've spent your ISTP reserves listening to her go on about a situation and actually comforting her without confronting her with the logic of what she did wrong, she may just want to jump your bones for the emotional intimacy of it all before she asks your advice on how to deal with it. Ironically, the act of sex itself is going to make you more understanding and more apt to talk about what she can do better next time, afterwards. JUST WAIT TIL SHE ASKS PLEASE! Trust me, even if it's the next morning, or after a midday snuggle nap, I think she will.