Do you like the taste of blood?

[Tennessee Jed]

I kind of like this public disorder stuff, to be honest. Reminds me of my youth. For example, here's an excerpt from Wikipedia on the "Long Hot Summer of 1967": [...snipped]

Anyway, just to follow up on my earlier post…

This may sound harsh, but I say: Let Antifa and BLM and the Proud boys and the boogaloos march. Let 'em cave each other's heads in. As long you yourself aren't caught in the crossfire, then it just comes down to some kids working off some steam beating each other up on TV for our entertainment.

When people have had enough, there's plenty the government can do to calm things down and freeze things in place: The National Guard, curfews, martial law. And then the government can create some commissions to really study the causes up close and come up with some long-term fixes.

There are some genuine problems that need to be solved. But it's too early yet for solutions. People aren't ready for solutions; hell, the combatants themselves can't even articulate exactly what they're fighting for. So grab a beer and enjoy the show. These things have a momentum of their own. They need to work themselves out over time. A little more blood has to be spilled yet before people start getting desperate enough to really desire a solution. It's just the nature of the beast.

At least, that's how it went in the 1960s and 1970s...

 

[Lark]

Check out that graph at that link that I offered in my last post. Look at the two red lines. Basically, we've switched over from hard manufacturing to professional services, finances, etc. That stuff may sound airy-fairy, but it's all good stuff for the new global economy--it can be done anywhere in the world. We remain the financial center of the world, no matter how much people may predict otherwise. But meanwhile, we still have lots of other bedrock industries that remain stable. It's only manufacturing that's taken a beating, and that's been going on for 50 years. That's nothing new.

Also petro-dollars.

The US' currency is THE backing currency for petro-dollars. That's the money used to conduct all the trades in crude oil and refined poil globally. So its the control of energy and plastics globally.

When Iraq's Saddam Hussein considered switching to Euros his country was occupied and he was put to death.

This is all the sorts of thing which never makes the headlines or which is the unreported world and anyone who knows even a little about it wouldnt be able to entertain all the scare mongering from this or that political administration that this is the year the long awaited biblical apocalypse happens.

Again, I'm not being hubristic, standards of life and life expectancy in the US could go through the floor but everywhere else would experience a greater collapse relative to it and as a result conditions in the US would not be that different, for the 1%, 40% and 30% at least.

 

[Lark]

Anyway, just to follow up on my earlier post…

This may sound harsh, but I say: Let Antifa and BLM and the Proud boys and the boogaloos march. Let 'em cave each other's heads in. As long you yourself aren't caught in the crossfire, then it just comes down to some kids working off some steam beating each other up on TV for our entertainment.

When people have had enough, there's plenty the government can do to calm things down and freeze things in place: The National Guard, curfews, martial law. And then the government can create some commissions to really study the causes up close and come up with some long-term fixes.

There are some genuine problems that need to be solved. But it's too early yet for solutions. People aren't ready for solutions; hell, the combatants themselves can't even articulate exactly what they're fighting for. So grab a beer and enjoy the show. These things have a momentum of their own. They need to work themselves out over time. A little more blood has to be spilled yet before people start getting desperate enough to really desire a solution. It's just the nature of the beast.

At least, that's how it went in the 1960s and 1970s...

And how I'd say it will go again to be honest.

These gangs have always existed and I figure they always will and as you say so long as they primarily are murdering each other they'll be permitted to do so and most people will be uneffected by it all. Live and let die has been a foreign policy for a long time of national governments and now its something any household can adopt if they want to.

 

[Lark]

I'm tempted to agree. But that would be unfair to the kids today. Their causes are real to them. I'll grant them the dignity of their feelings and assume that their causes are as real to them as they were to my contemporaries.

It doesnt matter how sincere they are about their causes. It changes very little.

 

[Tennessee Jed]

These gangs have always existed and I figure they always will and as you say so long as they primarily are murdering each other they'll be permitted to do so and most people will be uneffected by it all. Live and let die has been a foreign policy for a long time of national governments and now its something any household can adopt if they want to.

What can I say. The US has always had a bit of a "frontier justice" aspect to it. It may seem weird to see riots and arson in the streets of the US in this day and age. But think about it: Drug-running, organized crime, gang warfare… In the US it has always been more about tolerating these things and waiting until they spin out of control and become an emergency.

It's just the size and variety of the US. You simply can't control everything here. Often it comes down to waiting until something turns into an emergency and everyone finally gets on the same page and agrees: The government needs to step in and put an end to it, no matter what the means or the cost.

 

[anticlimatic]

Fresh blood has a savory sea salt flavor that isn't terrible and pairs well with a mild cheese or thirst for vengeance, depending on preference- but aged blood is a bit too oaky for me with very bitter notes, and not even citrus or sweetener or the satisfaction of having laid waste to ones enemies is enough to balance it.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Also petro-dollars.

The US' currency is THE backing currency for petro-dollars. That's the money used to conduct all the trades in crude oil and refined poil globally. So its the control of energy and plastics globally.

This is all true but you are forgetting that this is 2020 and things in the field aren't so rosy anymore. What you are saying is fully true but American control over global oil supply is in problems.



Coup in Venezuela failed. Media kinda forgot about it since it failed but that is how it is at this point.

Iran signed a number of deals in this regard with China and Trump's pressure only made it easier to make deals that will make US irritated.

Russia is today huge global producer and a number of American allies are dependent on Russia for their energy, there are large pipelines going towards China as well.

Iraq is a mess that is through local politics and religion getting closer to Iran (and therefore China).

Libya is a mess for almost a decade and it has plenty of Russian and Turkish troops on it's soil, that are a part of it's civil war.

Qatar if I am not mistaken has passed to Iran's side and had a huge drama with the Saudis over a number of issues.

Saudis and UAE are loyal and important allies but they are getting surrounded from all sides: War in Syria, Iraq, Iran, war in Yemen with pro Iran's militia's, China's base across the Red sea in Djibouti, Egypt is slipping eastward ... etc. As it was nicely said in this thread American manufacturing is going down for many decades. What means that countries that have oil have to search for concrete goods somewhere else and that radically lowers ability of US to control the situation. Since it can't even cover it's own needs in the terms of concrete goods. I mean the pandemic made this trend even worse.

With EU you also have a problem, Europe is going green and it is slowly but surely becoming immune to this game. Plus it is phasing out plastics wherever it can. Not to mention that Germany and Russia are building a pipeline beneath the Baltic that is going directly from Russia to Germany. In my part of the continent Russian energy is also dominant and attempts to establish a "beachhead" are stuck for years, for a number of reasons.

Plus on top of that US public really got bored with all the wars and most of them don't want to have an active part in all this.



US is in current shape exactly because it's "global game" is broken. Therefore all these "good old days" arguments simply don't apply to what is actually on the table at the moment. You are free to research each of these points. In a way this is exactly what is standing behind all of my posts that US has to quickly sober up, since this wouldn't end well.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Like if the people in the US who're pretty comfortable, I mean do not experience a fear of destitution from their health bills or something "mundane" like that, have nothing to hope for but violent fantasies? Hmm, well, its definitely not what the founding fathers had in mind. This actual post is not surprising given some of the others from that same forumer, the excitement when some bum knifed someone who objected to this racial abuse of some kids for instance.


I sometimes think this sort of thing tells a tale on the people who're a fan of it, the whole death, destruction, violence, its pretty necrophilious, I think it'd not be possible to mistake it for anything other than what it is, a culture of decay, the Freudian death drive taking over.

Same forumer probably enthusiastically supported the war in Iraq, but was too chickenshit to actually join up, so now he probably fantasizes about shooting protesters armed with milkshakes instead. I don't know how the time spent at an Ivy League college fits into that timeline... so that may have also had something to do with not joining up (it may also have been the fact that he had an elite college to attend as opposed to just being chickenshit).

It's interesting that the people on this forum with actual military experience don't actually seem to think the way he does, as far as I am aware.

 

[Jaguar]

Slow motion suicide bombing is how I've described it. I mean...

I've never been in a Walmart in my life and I think I'll keep it that way. Too many videos of crazy people in there.

 

[Lark]

Fresh blood has a savory sea salt flavor that isn't terrible and pairs well with a mild cheese or thirst for vengeance, depending on preference- but aged blood is a bit too oaky for me with very bitter notes, and not even citrus or sweetener or the satisfaction of having laid waste to ones enemies is enough to balance it.

You're missing out the coppery taste but otherwise you came close with this description.

 

[Lark]

I've never been in a Walmart in my life and I think I'll keep it that way. Too many videos of crazy people in there.

I kind of would like to go to one as a kind of safari experience though.

Super markets in the US, in the states I visited (Texas, Minnesota, Seattle, Spokane, New York, Chicago) where all quite different to what I had imagined from all the cultural exported fiction and media from the US.

 

[The Cat]

I kind of would like to go to one as a kind of safari experience though.

Super markets in the US, in the states I visited (Texas, Minnesota, Seattle, Spokane, New York, Chicago) where all quite different to what I had imagined from all the cultural exported fiction and media from the US.

One day I'm going to do a nature documentary David Attenburogh style of the American Walmart. I plan to showcase the vast complexities of of the unusual creatures who make the Walmart their home. I keep losing camera crews to crocodiles though.

 

[Lark]

Same forumer probably enthusiastically supported the war in Iraq, but was too chickenshit to actually join up, so now he probably fantasizes about shooting protesters armed with milkshakes instead. I don't know how the time spent at an Ivy League college fits into that timeline... so that may have also had something to do with not joining up (it may also have been the fact that he had an elite college to attend as opposed to just being chickenshit).

It's interesting that the people on this forum with actual military experience don't actually seem to think the way he does, as far as I am aware.

Yeah, I've noticed that in real life too, I share an office with some ex-service men who would joke about how civilians pay to go on "survival weekends" and they who had served in the military detested that part of their training as unpleasant and often pretty far removed from campaigning experience.

Not to single DB out too much but I tend to find it interesting how he posts and what he posts as a sort of sampling of a particular population. It does make me wonder if its representative or not and why. Like is there a raft of people sitting around indulging in violent fantasy for some reason playing with real firearms like they never out grew childhood games of soldiers/cowboys and injuns/cops and robbers.

All part of the human safari I guess.

Nice point about the protesters being armed with milkshakes as opposed to fire arms, it made me think of the UK when that dude threw the milkshake around the UK leader and he told his close protection entourage they were useless on camera.

- - - Updated - - -

One day I'm going to do a nature documentary David Attenburogh style of the American Walmart. I plan to showcase the vast complexities of of the unusual creatures who make the Walmart their home. I keep losing camera crews to crocodiles though.

I actually loved that TV series Superstore for the reasons you mentioned here.

 

[Lark]

This is all true but you are forgetting that this is 2020 and things in the field aren't so rosy anymore. What you are saying is fully true but American control over global oil supply is in problems.



Coup in Venezuela failed. Media kinda forgot about it since it failed but that is how it is at this point.

Iran signed a number of deals in this regard with China and Trump's pressure only made it easier to make deals that will make US irritated.

Russia is today huge global producer and a number of American allies are dependent on Russia for their energy, there are large pipelines going towards China as well.

Iraq is a mess that is through local politics and religion getting closer to Iran (and therefore China).

Libya is a mess for almost a decade and it has plenty of Russian and Turkish troops on it's soil, that are a part of it's civil war.

Qatar if I am not mistaken has passed to Iran's side and had a huge drama with the Saudis over a number of issues.

Saudis and UAE are loyal and important allies but they are getting surrounded from all sides: War in Syria, Iraq, Iran, war in Yemen with pro Iran's militia's, China's base across the Red sea in Djibouti, Egypt is slipping eastward ... etc. As it was nicely said in this thread American manufacturing is going down for many decades. What means that countries that have oil have to search for concrete goods somewhere else and that radically lowers ability of US to control the situation. Since it can't even cover it's own needs in the terms of concrete goods. I mean the pandemic made this trend even worse.

With EU you also have a problem, Europe is going green and it is slowly but surely becoming immune to this game. Plus it is phasing out plastics wherever it can. Not to mention that Germany and Russia are building a pipeline beneath the Baltic that is going directly from Russia to Germany. In my part of the continent Russian energy is also dominant and attempts to establish a "beachhead" are stuck for years, for a number of reasons.

Plus on top of that US public really got bored with all the wars and most of them don't want to have an active part in all this.



US is in current shape exactly because it's "global game" is broken. Therefore all these "good old days" arguments simply don't apply to what is actually on the table at the moment. You are free to research each of these points. In a way this is exactly what is standing behind all of my posts that US has to quickly sober up, since this wouldn't end well.

To be honest the things you mention are problems for the EU rather than the US, which is largely how the US would like to keep it.

The situation in the middle east is changeable and unpredictable but largely the US is playing the long game there, Trump might take credit for current developments but they've been in the pipe line for a long, long time and the whole regional change in attitudes in which Iran replaces Israel as the villain of the piece was always on the cards.

The only challenger, at all, for the US in terms of hard power or global economic management is China and, I'll be honest and say that I think that is really much, much more of a kind of existential threat than it is actual military and soft power. That whole thing is amazing to watch play out because it demonstrates the extent to which the "west" is terrified that "white supremacy", not in the delusional racist ideology sense but objective legacy of history sense, will be undermined.

I cant believe how much that matters to the elites and how goddamned fragile they are. Like it almost has me believing the Cracked.com stories about how the movie out put of Stallone as Rocky and Rambo really WAS all about shoring up white, western insecurities (ironic when you consider Stallone is Italian and both the character and actor in the big East Vs West Rocky film was Slavic/European).

While I agree that the US should sober up I'm not sure it will happen, I think domestically they need to stop going to war with themselves, that's a huge matter and point as the movie Lord of War made rule number one is not to go to war with yourself. There's a lot of tired, old money privilege in the US that is unproductive now and has managed to piggy back their defence on the back of a bunch of popular prejudices right now, weird identity politics that appeal to the young, stupid and angry and revulsion at modern day academic liberalisms weird single issues. I mention all that because its not simply a matter of the establishment or elites shaping up, there is no decent opposition either.

It all goes double for the UK too but then the UK has slightly less delusions of grandeur. Well, outside of England and Northern Ireland maybe.

 

[Lark]

OK, so we made it to page six of the thread and no one, not a one, has posted anything at all about black pudding/blood pudding or any other blood based cuisine.

I love black pudding.

I love it deep fried in batter and its second only to battered Haggis in that regard.

 

[Virtual ghost]

To be honest the things you mention are problems for the EU rather than the US, which is largely how the US would like to keep it.

Well, what is the problem for one in the terms for Russia/China will be a problem for another. In this regard their interests are just too interconnected. Exports of US industry into China is a problem for EU, while slow remake of eastern block and Russian big oil are a problem for US. Of course various interest groups will completely muddy this issue but for general public this issue is fairly clear and simple.

The situation in the middle east is changeable and unpredictable but largely the US is playing the long game there, Trump might take credit for current developments but they've been in the pipe line for a long, long time and the whole regional change in attitudes in which Iran replaces Israel as the villain of the piece was always on the cards.

The only challenger, at all, for the US in terms of hard power or global economic management is China and, I'll be honest and say that I think that is really much, much more of a kind of existential threat than it is actual military and soft power. That whole thing is amazing to watch play out because it demonstrates the extent to which the "west" is terrified that "white supremacy", not in the delusional racist ideology sense but objective legacy of history sense, will be undermined.

Yes but as I pointed out this long term game is falling apart as it stands for now. The things simply aren't nearly as one-sided as they once were. While in soft power China has the advantage at this point since it's goods are cheap enough that average third worlder can buy them. Plus they allow various local politicians all over the map to behave in undemocratic way(s) and they made their own parallel global institutions. Even in EU there are big debates about banning China in telecommunication equipment. While that should be US territory at any time of day and night. When you think about it this is huge red flag that is in front of everyone face, but people prefer to look the other way.

The Germany will probably be the decider in which direction the things will go.

 

[anticlimatic]

Disco has been predicting civil war for years now, and he so far hasn't been wrong at least on the trajectory we have been and currently are on. While we may not be there yet, you can't say that every year that has passed since has not drawn us anything but closer to that outcome. Across the aisle communication has been deteriorating exponentially for a long time now, and with these riots I feel like recently it has all but completely stopped- making us more vulnerable to it than ever before.
As an optimist, I don't like the idea of civil war as an inevitability, and have for years been pushing for communication and compromise as a remedy- both in rhetoric and in practice- but my last big attempt at bi partisan efforts with the outbreak of Covid was a colossal failure. In the midst of trying to work out why, and better reconcile things, these riots broke out and more or less broke my optimism on the matter. I feel like I was one of the last holdouts interested in bipartisan communication, so if I am Done, I don't think that's a very good sign for the country in general- though of course that is somewhat arrogant and anecdotal, so take it with an appropriately sized grain of salt.

The current state of media mistrust, civil unrest, violence, rioting, economic collapse, and political toxicity, just feels to me like a cumulative vindication of everything I've ever politically debated- here and elsewhere- all the way from the mob rule dangers of identity politics, to the psychological dangers of an external locus of control, to victim culture and the toxicity of millenial's critical theory, capitalism and property rights, the rise of the religious left- EVERYTHING- chained together in theoretical evolution and a natural sequence of events, culminating now in a destructive ideologically/religiously driven rage mob actively and physically tearing the country, other people's lives, and their own lives physically spiritually and emotionally apart.

All while the same people who have been telling me I was wrong for seeing it coming, and that utopia was REALLY what was on the way, are now having to look the other way while their own cities are gutted by their own ideology- while their media produces almost 100% lies spin and propaganda for their billionaire overlords. These same people are now having to defend violent rapists as though they were the victims. The beclowning of the American left is complete. There's nothing rational left of it to even try to communicate with.

 

[Tennessee Jed]

Disco has been predicting civil war for years now, and he so far hasn't been wrong at least on the trajectory we have been and currently are on. While we may not be there yet, you can't say that every year that has passed since has not drawn us anything but closer to that outcome. Across the aisle communication has been deteriorating exponentially for a long time now, and with these riots I feel like recently it has all but completely stopped- making us more vulnerable to it than ever before.
As an optimist, I don't like the idea of civil war as an inevitability, and have for years been pushing for communication and compromise as a remedy- both in rhetoric and in practice- but my last big attempt at bi partisan efforts with the outbreak of Covid was a colossal failure. In the midst of trying to work out why, and better reconcile things, these riots broke out and more or less broke my optimism on the matter. I feel like I was one of the last holdouts interested in bipartisan communication, so if I am Done, I don't think that's a very good sign for the country in general- though of course that is somewhat arrogant and anecdotal, so take it with an appropriately sized grain of salt.

The current state of media mistrust, civil unrest, violence, rioting, economic collapse, and political toxicity, just feels to me like a cumulative vindication of everything I've ever politically debated- here and elsewhere- all the way from the mob rule dangers of identity politics, to the psychological dangers of an external locus of control, to victim culture and the toxicity of millenial's critical theory, capitalism and property rights, the rise of the religious left- EVERYTHING- chained together in theoretical evolution and a natural sequence of events, culminating now in a destructive ideologically/religiously driven rage mob actively and physically tearing the country, other people's lives, and their own lives physically spiritually and emotionally apart.

All while the same people who have been telling me I was wrong for seeing it coming, and that utopia was REALLY what was on the way, are now having to look the other way while their own cities are gutted by their own ideology- while their media produces almost 100% lies spin and propaganda for their billionaire overlords. These same people are now having to defend violent rapists as though they were the victims. The beclowning of the American left is complete. There's nothing rational left of it to even try to communicate with.

Meh. I would say that you're being too apocalyptic. I mean, a lot of that stuff is supposed to be happening. Cities and states are supposed to be experimenting with different ideologies and tax systems and social ideologies. That's the whole idea behind federalism--each state is a laboratory, where citizens can work out how they want to live, and the rest of the country as a whole can pick out the best models among them.

In other words, there is supposed to be differences of opinions and some cities/states are supposed to be falling apart while others flourish.

So what's the real problem? Is it Trump vs Hillary or Trump vs Biden. Nope. That's just projection. People feel rage and turn their rage into daddy issues or mommy issues and project it onto a figure from the other side. In fact, Trump (or any other politician) has little or no influence on real-world events. Look at how far Trump got on his favorite project--building the wall. Nowhere. Washington is in gridlock. It's basically incapable of doing anything at all. Which is fine for the politicians--they realistically can't be blamed for anything, because they can't do anything (except maybe tinker with taxes). They just make noise and try to monopolize the media headlines and try to figure out what to say in order to get re-elected.

So what's going on? Easy: A clash of cultures. The old consensus on how society is supposed to operate is falling to pieces, and a new one has yet to be worked out. That's the only thing grand enough to cause a society-wide melt-down. (More on this in a follow-up post…)

 

[Tennessee Jed]

Clash of cultures

As I said in my previous post, only a true clash of cultures has the ability to split society. Here's an easy example of a clash of cultures:

If a college girl gets too drunk at a party and a college boy affectionately gives her a kiss and squeezes her tiddy, it's pretty much expected that she should be able to march down to the cop station the next day and have him locked up just on her say-so.

If a male coworker tells a secretary that she's looking good, she should be able to get him fired; if he's a client or a customer, she should be able to launch a media campaign against him and have his livelihood taken away.

And so on. You get the picture. There's a social consensus that people should be able to live trouble-free, harassment-free lives. And it's a nice idea. But where do all those legal and interpersonal conflicts end up? In the laps of the cops and the courts. And guess what? There is also a social consensus that cops are jack-booted murderers and that the courts are unfair or downright corrupt.

So what do you have? The cops are stuck in the middle of these two vastly different pictures. They are depicted as white knights, riding to the honor of women in the event of every little incident of harassment, every little drunken caress in a college. But at the same time they are also depicted as out-of-control murderers on a rampage.

So what happens in the real world? They go out to pick up a dude on a sexual assault charge. But the dude resists and goes for a weapon… So which are they? Which story applies to the cops in this situation? Are they white knights protecting some woman's honor? Or are they out-of-control murderers casually executing someone just because of the color of his skin?

This is just one example. But these are the kinds of things that need to be worked out in order to restore or build a new social consensus. This is what the MAGA boys and BLM folks are fighting over, though they probably can't even really articulate the problem properly.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

It's very ironic how the people with the least ability to think are always shouting about the sheeple and projecting that onto others. It's a very consistent phenomenon.

This seems absolutely true to me as well, as a general rule.

Well, I dont think that's healthy talk, it sounds like personality disordered talk and I think it's taken some amount of rigging by enemies foreign and domestic for the US to get this way but its happened.

If Antifa wasn't an imaginary militia, then there would be someone to match the bloodthirsty nature of the extreme right-wing militias. You do have to have a lot of training and coordination for war to happen. Even guerrilla warfare requires a lot of training and coordination. People have to have their evil shit together.

Trying to place the police force in opposition to white supremicist militias or private militia forces creates two sides, but I really don't think the situation can organize into warfare with one side throwing drunken tantrums with guns and the other side saying mean things while eating carrots and other organic veggies.

I think that if Biden wins and there's no longer legal coordination between the mentally ill extremist right and U.S. law enforcement - and people capable of using dialogue to sort out conflict are once again in charge, instead of the bullying orange Neanderthal who uses the U.S. military to bully to compensate for his inability to understand, recognize, or participate in dialogue - then the bloodthirsty extremist right will once again be considered (from a legal standpoint, albeit perhaps not formally at first) domestic terrorism.

Trump will of course be tweeting from the sidelines with the rest of the usual suspects, peddling conspiracy theories and whatnot to fan flames, but I think having a grown-up in charge again to put forward a mature perspective when things happen (like someone who will make a statement about how the wrongdoing their own side does is wrong and it needs to stop, instead of making up stories about the wrongdoing the other side does whilst being unwilling to condemn even murder committed by their own side) will be a calming influence. I mean, if Trump loses (and manages to finally concede short of being killed whilst removing him from the premises), of course his narcissistic rage will be off the charts and he'll do and tweet anything he can to incite the apocalyptic results he's promised will happen in "Biden's America." But since he will no longer have yes men planted in the highest offices in the government, he won't be able to protect the people who enact the violence he encourages and consequently I think there will be less chaos if he loses.