[ENTP] Christian ENTPs?

[Nicodemus]

What I've read often now still do not understand is the thing that we cant have absolute values without something like God. Couldnt a civilization have the absolute value for example that to kill each others sucks and only derive that by logical means, cause when they kill each other they are dead ?

Absolute values are absolutus, detached, from our conventions. Whether we agree on them or not, they are there and binding.

By the way: You cannot derive through logical means that it were wrong to kill.

 

[entropie]

Absolute values are absolutus, detached, from our conventions. Whether we agree on them or not, they are there and binding.

By the way: You cannot derive through logical means that it were wrong to kill.

That's is and stays way over my head, my religion teacher quitted talking to me about it at some point .

I mean if you have a tribe of let's say 5 people and one kills another. And it was the best hunter of the tribe. After that the other 4 starve to death because they cant hunt. And they write their experience down as a rule for other generations that killing sucks. Or have it even less complex like one of the 5 killed another one in anger tho it was his best friend and later on regrets it.

Dunno if thats called learning by logic or experience but why do we need a definition of somewhat like a God to understand these values, if its just enough to open your eyes and live the day to understand them. I dont get that

 

[Nicodemus]

That's is and stays way over my head, my religion teacher quitted talking to me about it at some point .

We had this conversation before.

I mean if you have a tribe of let's say 5 people and one kills another. And it was the best hunter of the tribe. After that the other 4 starve to death because they cant hunt. And they write their experience down as a rule for other generations that killing sucks. Or have it even less complex like one of the 5 killed another one in anger tho it was his best friend and later on regrets it.

Then these are good rules if you think that having enough to eat, living and not feeling regret are good goals. You cannot, however, deduce through logic that these are good goals (Hume's Law).

Dunno if thats called learning by logic or experience but why do we need a definition of somewhat like a God to understand these values, if its just enough to open your eyes and live the day to understand them. I dont get that

We do not need god for that. Proof:

P1: God does not exist.
P2: entropie believes it.
P3: entropie is equal to us.
---------------------------------------
C: We can believe it without god existing.

 

[entropie]

Hmhmhm well in respect to your knowledge I wont bug you any further, what I always disliked so much about philosophy and religion was that I always had the feeling those people are trieing to tell me how I have to think. And the logic they use often is so basic, whats probably necessary to discuss it, but what leaves to many constraints out of the equation that it is difficult for me to comprehend. Like the last P1,P2,P3;C example you gave, well it makes sense, but maybe in a 2-bit microprocessor world.

Sorry for asking that again, I can assure you I'll often repeat myself, this tho not your fault . Hope one day you or someone else can explain to me what this really is about. Alone reading that wikipedia article you linked is so impossible to me, I was lost after the first sentence :/

 

[Nicodemus]

Den Wikipedia-Artikel, der eigentlich alles erklären sollte, gibt es auch auf Deutsch.

 

[entropie]

Den Wikipedia-Artikel, der eigentlich alles erklären sollte, gibt es auch auf Deutsch.

Ok in german it's better. Sounds like Te-paradise that article . Wait I'll try it for you:

He says that to say that "something should be" because "it is" is flawed, because just because "it is" this doesnt mean "it should be"

That made sense, was I right ?

 

[Beorn]

Religion is your thang, good for you, but to be so blinded by your faith that you cannot perceive of any other reasons beyond a God for why people may have good reasons to elevate love over hate is so deluded.

They will have other reasons, but according to a materialist framework the fundamental reason underlying all other reasons they may give is simply that random chemical reactions in the brain determine what is good, true, and beautiful. The fight between good and evil would be at it's most essential level akin to two bacteria fighting for territory in a petrie dish.

 

[Nicodemus]

He says that to say that "something should be" because "it is" is flawed, because just because "it is" this doesnt mean "it should be"

That made sense, was I right ?

Yes. And no way leads with necessity from 'is' to 'ought'.

 

[entropie]

Yes.

Ok that really made sense. So there is virtually no possibility to say how it should be by derivation of how it is, without adding your own subjective note to it.

That's kinda depressing

 

[Nicodemus]

Ok that really made sense. So there is virtually no possibility to say how it should be by derivation of how it is, without adding your own subjective note to it.

That's kinda depressing

Well, it also means that you are free to do whatever you like.

 

[Beorn]

Well, it also means that you are free to do whatever you like.

That's not necessarily depressing when you apply it to yourself, but it is horrifying when applied to others.

 

[entropie]

hmm

That reminds me of that stargate episode (they are looping in time and reliving the same day over and over again)

[YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRJaw43QkaU"].[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Nicodemus]

That's not necessarily depressing when you apply it to yourself, but it is horrifying when applied to others.

Only for the others, though.

 

[Samvega]

I said what I meant and I meant what I said. I am loyal to the people I love. After what God has done for me, I will always be loyal to him. I quickly soared to the top where few go, then fell flat on my face and lost EVERYTHING. That was no joke! God has humbled me. If there was a God in heaven, he was my only hope. Not only did he answer my prayers, he restored back everything I lost, plus so much more. I WILL NEVER, EVER, EVER accept that I am capable of doing anything on my own again without him. Christ's love has set me free from the ties that used to bind me. One of those ties was foolish pride, which would often manifest as cruel jokes at other's expense. I was in denial for so long that I was doing that. No more. Now, I work on honoring God and keeping my pride in check. I'm not perfect, but I believe God does the perfecting as we try. I remind myself that I am nobody; I am only somebody because of his love and mercy for me. To whom much is given, much is expected.

That's where I'll stand.

Well, that it awesome to hear, sounds like you've made some wonderful changes and have become a better person for them. Sucks that it took the divine power of an all knowing, all mighty creator to get you to be that better person as I think it's amazing when people make choices like that on their own out of personal growth but it's the same ending either way where others are concerned so that's great for everybody you come into contact with.

 

[Samvega]

I said what I meant and I meant what I said. I am loyal to the people I love. After what God has done for me, I will always be loyal to him. I quickly soared to the top where few go, then fell flat on my face and lost EVERYTHING. That was no joke! God has humbled me. If there was a God in heaven, he was my only hope. Not only did he answer my prayers, he restored back everything I lost, plus so much more. I WILL NEVER, EVER, EVER accept that I am capable of doing anything on my own again without him. Christ's love has set me free from the ties that used to bind me. One of those ties was foolish pride, which would often manifest as cruel jokes at other's expense. I was in denial for so long that I was doing that. No more. Now, I work on honoring God and keeping my pride in check. I'm not perfect, but I believe God does the perfecting as we try. I remind myself that I am nobody; I am only somebody because of his love and mercy for me. To whom much is given, much is expected.

That's where I'll stand.

And, just to point something out, it's pretty hard to take the above as a serious ENTP response when the below is written by the same person.

Thanks for the link; interesting thread, but lots of varying opinions.

I'm even more confused now. I can equally relate to all functions by definition: Ne, Ni, Se, Si. I don't want to insult any experts in this field, but surely there's a simpler way... this all seems like a stretch to try and pinpoint someone because for me, usage of Ne, Ni, Se, Si varies from moment to moment. Examples,...

• If I'm buying a car, I'm ISTP,
• If I'm programming, I'm INTP,
• If I'm dealing with people I'm INFP,
• If I'm bored I'm INTP and ISTP: I dream up something fun, but I don't waste any time sitting around like an INFP/INTP either, I go out and do it because plans look good on paper, but they're even better (executed) in real life.

How can a test say I'm INFP eveytime I take it. Perhaps INFP is the person I wish I could be and the test results are a product of some hidden agenda deep in the recesses of my mind. See, here I theorize theory or am I really being realistic? hmm...

Nonetheless, Fe, Fi, Se, Si... it's all nothing more than theory. Theory that is not fool proof.... there are too many variables... too many exceptions.

The only thing I can't relate to at all is 'J'.

 

[A window to the soul]

^ Yes sir, and I meant every word of that. I posted that thread almost a year ago when I was new to this. I was bouncing ideas off of y'all. That's what I do. That's why I'm here.

 

[entropie]

^ Yes sir, and I meant every word of that. I posted that thread almost a year ago when I was new to this. I was bouncing ideas off of y'all. That's why I'm here.

Does that mean you are only using me ?

 

[guesswho]

And, just to point something out, it's pretty hard to take the above as a serious ENTP response when the below is written by the same person.

Are you seriously saying NTPs can't believe in God?

Faith can be related to MBTI type, but not 100% related.

And NTP women are different than NTP males.

There are a ton of factors which can determine one to believe or not to believe in God. Not just MBTI.

 

[A window to the soul]

Are you seriously saying NTPs can't believe in God?

Faith can be related to MBTI type, but not 100% related.

And NTP women are different than NTP males.

There are a ton of factors which can determine one to believe or not to believe in God. Not just MBTI.

Thank you.

and kisses. Lots o' kisses. ha!

 

[entropie]

She's only using me... I am vividly turned on