Can this be the reason why Ns think that sensors are "stupid" ?

[Athenian200]

Sensors are stupid because they start with the same letter.

N stands for nowledge.

My personal favorite is:

S = Serf

N = Noble

 

[slant]

I've never been bothered by the "S's aren't as intellegent as N's" claim, or when someone, usually someone who isn't an SJ, will say "I dislike all SJs".

All sweeping statements, all stereotypes. Frankly, these people don't know what they are talking about. There was a time where I claimed INFJ (unbelievable, isn't it?), yet everyone on the INFJ forums said how 'INFJ like' my posts were, they praised me for being one of them, they accepted me as an INFJ. It wasn't until some time later which one person pointed out I couldn't possibly be an INFJ, and then I typed INTP/ISTP, and I finally settled for ISTP. By that time I was such an important part of the forum, people didn't use my S against me or attempt the line that I was less intellegent. It had been proven time and time again that I just thought differently than an INFJ--- and if the INFJs had a problem with my dislike of abstracts and concrete communication style, I had a problem with their over-emotionalness and empathy that I've been told I lack. So, the perspective goes both ways.

But really, I see no merit to the claims that one time is superior to another because more than 60% of the time I believe persons are mistyped.

 

[Liminality]

I've never been bothered by the "S's aren't as intellegent as N's" claim, or when someone, usually someone who isn't an SJ, will say "I dislike all SJs".


But really, I see no merit to the claims that one time is superior to another because more than 60% of the time I believe persons are mistyped.

Yeah...Suggesting a whole type is stupider than yours is a pretty...sweeping, stupid statement, and a biased approach to the concept of intelligence.

 

[slant]

It's pretty much a Nazi approach to life.

The jews are inferior to us, therefore we kill them alongside the disabled and the blind, etc.

Really, if you are more intellegent than a particular MBTI type why persecute them? Stupidity is not something that a person can help- if someone is born with a low IQ, that's the IQ they have. Just like if someone has autism, people recognize ( or should) that they are disabled in some form or another so they shouldn't be held up to the same standards. The rational that people use, even if their claims were true, is very corrupt and ill directed.

 

[FemMecha]

The bulk of our definitions for intelligence are steeped in our own cultural and personal biases. It is a much more complex and uncertain topic than is usually assumed. At a base level intelligence is simply a way of predicting individual success within a specific culture and environment. What is considered intelligent today in modern America is different from 14th century Mongolia, or in a South American tribe 10,000 years ago. Which definition is the correct and objective one?

I think another reason some "N's" view "S's" as less intelligence is based on the online history starting with iNtuitive central in which the only uniting feature was the N.

 

[Kra]

Yeah...Suggesting a whole type is stupider than yours is a pretty...sweeping, stupid statement, and a biased approach to the concept of intelligence.

Agreed.

It's one of those silly cliquish behaviors that people never really outgrow. It's also worth noting that there is a somewhat larger proportion of N's vs. S's on TypeC than is typical in meatspace, supposedly in any case. Maybe that contributes to aforementioned cliquey-ness.

Personally, I've not noticed any of the members that I hold in high intellectual esteem (be they S's or N's) actually say anything like "N's are smarter" or vice-versa.

 

[Kambro]

No, I don't think that's it...

Normally, I see the world that way, too. The things going in my head are usually more along the lines of "what if I end up living in the streets," "how do they expect me to get experience if I haven't had a job before," "how on earth do those people stay connected all the time and still get things done," "how do they remember to stay in touch with people they don't see on a regular basis anymore," or "how did all those people get to know each other, who introduced them"?

So, I don't tend to layer that much on top of the physical world or imagine how things were built, I just tend to tune into the few details of the physical world I need to in order to move from place to place and not care about it.

The biggest thing I notice about sensors... is that they're "slow," if you will. Sometimes they'll say things very slowly, and I'll get impatient and want to finish their sentences for them because I know where they're going with it, but that's not really what I mean. That is, they often can't guess what my assumptions are even if I think they should be obvious. They can understand what I'm saying if I articulate all the assumptions. The problem, again, is that not only are they unlikely to guess the assumptions, they're also unlikely to be interested in understanding what I'm saying.

So to me, Sensors seem stupid because they often lack curiosity about abstract ideas. Even if they had lousy abstract processing capability, I would see them as intelligent if they were curious. To me, lack of curiosity is stupidity, regardless of type.

Oh yes so true in some ways!!! But Sensors are stunning and my ISFP friend is an intelligent woman with whom I talk about moral end ethical issues.

 

[Jaguar]

I've never been bothered by the "S's aren't as intellegent as N's" claim [...]
But really, I see no merit to the claims that one time is superior to another because more than 60% of the time I believe persons are mistyped.

One of the best posts I have read, was a recent one.
It was post #1 from an alleged ESFP, who clearly put every sterotyping fool in their place.
It was superb.

It can be found here:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/popular-culture-type/3711-esfp-stupid-myth-17.html#post854274

 

[Kambro]

S vs N

Yeah...Suggesting a whole type is stupider than yours is a pretty...sweeping, stupid statement, and a biased approach to the concept of intelligence.

Agree, at the end of the day we all add to the broth in our different ways. I love sensors because they enjoy life so much more. Not that I as a NT don't . In fact although I am a high I most people don't even know it and think I have a great sense of humour. Mind you my high school pals see me a sliteral with no sense of humour

 

[Charmed Justice]

2 sensors(me and my son) will end up with my son asking questions about the stars and me trying to explain everything I know about them. His weaker Ne helps him slowly navigate from stars to the Sun, to the moon, to other things that he just keeps asking questions and the conversations move from one thing to another. Its interesting to think how you can have different types sitting under the stars and how the paths of conversations can change.

That's so neat. My son goes on and on with "what if" and "why" questions. He presents with the most seemingly random "what if" scenarios, half the time I just listen and smile because I can't even remotely add to his imagination.

The different paths of conversation are neat! I'll be thinking about that the next time I go stargazing.

Like I think about the effects of this financial crisis on mental and emotional health, overcrowded VA hospitals, convalescence, being complacent at a job, but it's typically triggered by something firmly rooted and grounded in reality and very often a social issue/problem.

I think like this a lot too, especially concerning sociological issues as well. It's more when I'm alone and relaxing, especially if I'm outside, that my mind goes into a dream-like state and begins conjuring up any number of odd extrapolations about the world.

 

[Kambro]

This thread should be canned as S = N and in any case MBTI is simply a guide not the truth and people are unique individuals with their own permutations

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

As a heavy N, I often thought standardized tests were written for me personally, while my daily classroom instruction was designed for other people. Not surprising so many Ns get labeled as "underachievers".

I had a HS girlfriend who was ESFP and got better grades than I did, but whose SATs were nearly 400 points lower. I was amazed at how quickly she could finish her homework without her parents nagging her, she was amazed at how quickly I could understand Trigonometry concepts without opening the textbook or paying attention in class. If you took her grades and my SATs the combination would have easily gotten into Harvard. But we both ended up frustrated for different reasons. She used to say I was just not trying hard enough and was spending too much time with pothead friends, I used to tell her she just needed more practice with standardized tests. Our problems would have been far easier to solve if we, our parents, or our teachers understood MBTI at the time.

I think a lot could be gained if schools paid more attention to N-S learning styles, instead of falling into the easy trap of overdiagnosing ADD while labeling many Ss as overachievers. Moreover, it tells you something that testing and teaching are so out of line with one another.

 

[NewEra]

It can be found here:

http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/popular-culture-type/3711-esfp-stupid-myth-17.html#post854274

Game, set, match.

Agree, at the end of the day we all add to the broth in our different ways. I love sensors because they enjoy life so much more.

Definitely. I have noticed that I take more pleasure in the simple things of life than the N's I know.

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

Definitely. I have noticed that I take more pleasure in the simple things of life than the N's I know.

Yes, but without us Ns you wouldn't have had the inventions and revolutions that allow you to now enjoy the simple things.

 

[Thalassa]

This is not anti S thread.
I am simply trying to put some light on why sensors are so often disliked among some intuitives.


During my everyday life my intuition is constantly out of control. So I am almost never in "here" and now mode. Plus my mind constantly creates new ideas and concepts. Or I am trying determine what will be happen in the future and why will happen what will happen. I simply can stop with this activity. (for the most part)


However I can try to focus on my senses and I usually manage to stay in this mode for a shot amount of time.
However when I do this there is no more : guessing what the future holds. (especially not on the scales of billions of years)

There is no deep philosophical arguments all over my mind. Mountains and landspaces look as mountains and landspaces instead as remains of some ocean that no longer exists. Or remains of strong tectonic activity that ended 270 millions of years ago. Plus there is no entire entire "space and time" thing.


Instead of this I have a normal street with parked cars and rain that is falling for the last 2 hours infront of me. I don't know about the other Ns but this is so much simplier existance. However if we look and rate thing by book this is the world of sensing.

So when a strong N comes into this world everything seems so simple but extremly limited. What means that sensors are narrow minded for the most part since they live like this through most of their lifes.


Comments ?

I don't think sensors are stupid. However, I have encountered so many that are shockingly simple and narrow minded - and on top of that have the audacity to criticize me for being "weird" or "caring about stuff that doesn't matter" (because everyone knows that having a perfectly organized desk drawer matters soooo much more than contemplating the nature of humanity) - that, yeah, I do think some are stupid in an almost unforgivable way. But it's largely to do with a life lived with their constant attacks on me for being different than they are. I think a lot of the nastiness toward sensors on-line is misplaced aggression Ns suffer from being attacked/surrounded by Ss IRL.

For the record, I'm often attracted to SPs and I think that people who are too N are impractical and unrealistic. So I'm not S bashing at all.

 

[NewEra]

Yes, but without us Ns you wouldn't have had the inventions and revolutions that allow you to now enjoy the simple things.

I guess so. I'm sure a few S's were involved in those inventions too.

 

[Thalassa]

I guess so. I'm sure a few S's were involved in those inventions too.

Well, it's kind of true. Ns think outside of the box. It's exactly that sort of unconventional, "weird", or day-dreamy type thinking that leads to new inventions and technology.

That isn't to say that Ss aren't involved, but the N mindset - while it may seem almost handicapped at times in terms of executing hands on activities - is crucial to brainstorming the future.

 

[Poki]

This is not anti S thread.
I am simply trying to put some light on why sensors are so often disliked among some intuitives.


During my everyday life my intuition is constantly out of control. So I am almost never in "here" and now mode. Plus my mind constantly creates new ideas and concepts. Or I am trying determine what will be happen in the future and why will happen what will happen. I simply can stop with this activity. (for the most part)


However I can try to focus on my senses and I usually manage to stay in this mode for a shot amount of time.
However when I do this there is no more : guessing what the future holds. (especially not on the scales of billions of years)

There is no deep philosophical arguments all over my mind. Mountains and landspaces look as mountains and landspaces instead as remains of some ocean that no longer exists. Or remains of strong tectonic activity that ended 270 millions of years ago. Plus there is no entire entire "space and time" thing.


Instead of this I have a normal street with parked cars and rain that is falling for the last 2 hours infront of me. I don't know about the other Ns but this is so much simplier existance. However if we look and rate thing by book this is the world of sensing.

So when a strong N comes into this world everything seems so simple but extremly limited. What means that sensors are narrow minded for the most part since they live like this through most of their lifes.


Comments ?

What you dont realize is that N cannot exist without S. So S cannot exist without N.

Its just backwords. Sensors use senses to build intuition and intuitors use intuition to build sensory data. Even in this case, its more along the lines of using Ne to build Si and Se to build Ni. Now do you spend more time building what you believe or believing what you build. And you flip those around to Ni Se and Si Ne.

I think intuitors have misplaced or dont understand there S side. The funny thing is that it(their S side) has alot to do with their natural tendencies because its in the same direction as there dominant function, so it is possible for an N to actually use S more than N.

Edit: if you are trying to be S and just use sensory data you are missing half the idea of being S.

 

[tetsuwanatom]

Discussing intelligence of N vs. S seems, to me, pretty off the mark.
Let's not even discuss the definition of intelligence that we're using as a benchmark to compare N and S, but look at N and S themselves.

Ne and Ni are themselves quite different functions; as well as Se and Si.
To me this sounds like, e.g., discussing which continent is a better representation of "intelligence": Europe vs. Asia, where Europe is represented by 2 diverse countries like Britain and Estonia, and Asia by Japan and Israel.

In addition to this, only half of all the 16 MBTI types are characterised by people who are S/N dominant. I would have thought if it's a discussion of intelligence, it would have made more sense to discuss the T/F judging functions, instead of the S/N perceiving functions.

In MBTI, everyone is characterised by four functions. It seems to me quite silly to say to myself that the S or N part of my personality preference is the "stupid" part, and that some people are just more "stupid" than other because they happily traverse from t=birth to t=death using more of their "stupid" function than their "clever" function to understand themselves and the world.

This is not anti S thread.
During my everyday life my intuition is constantly out of control. So I am almost never in "here" and now mode. Plus my mind constantly creates new ideas and concepts. Or I am trying determine what will be happen in the future and why will happen what will happen. I simply can stop with this activity. (for the most part) [....] Plus there is no entire entire "space and time" thing.

I think Se at its best also takes the person out of the "here" and "now" mode. When Se is at its best, there is no here and now, there is only the continuous unstoppable flow of what is and what is becoming. I think you can see this very easily in the performance arts and, I suspect, also in many stream-of-consciousness writings.

How is being or NOT being in "here" and "now" or "space and time" anything to do with intelligence?
And why do you assume "entire space and time thing" the realm of intuition?
As far as I know, whether you like it or not, you're pretty much stuck in space and time whether you call yourself N, S, T, F, X, Y or Z.

Sensors are stupid because they start with the same letter.

N stands for nowledge.

LOL!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jaguar]

I have noticed that I take more pleasure in the simple things of life than the N's I know.

Yes, but without us Ns you wouldn't have had the inventions and revolutions that allow you to now enjoy the simple things.

How do you invent the sound of a child laughing, or the mesmerizing hues of a sunset?
The simple things in life were never invented by anyone.