[MBTI General] Bloody INFPs and their capacity to turn INTJs into fuzzy hug addicts.

[Cranky]

what happens when an intj picks up the pieces and moves on? how do they do it and what is their thought/feeling process when they start to get it?

also, i identify with everything orangeappled said, although i don't know why (since i'm infj).

i sometimes find that i want someone who can perfectly manage my emotions for me, inspire me when i need it, comfort me when i need it, and challenge/tough love me when i need it. my Fness creates a desire for connection more than anything else, which sometimes feels like a desire for merging. without it i feel empty, plain, colorless, bland and tasteless, bored, unmotivated, uninspired, flat, etc. i'm introverted, but one of my greatest joys is in expressing myself and relating holistically as selves to another person. emotional articulation is different than logical articulation, although aesthetics grow out of both structures. i think nf types often have a strong calling or pull to a better possibility of emotional relationality, whereas nt types do T analysis first than start letting F wake up a little bit. when intjs do it 100% it is sudden and total. as an infj i feel like i am always holding some of it back, my N is looking forward to negative projections and positive other possibilities (feeling deprived). i am figuring out how this works as a result, bc these processes only distract from the fact that i am currently VERY happy in this situation when i am free and open. i am still young in significant relationships tho i am sometimes wise in my sneaking suspicions (for good and bad). i envy Fi users bc they seem so much more in touch with their actual personal values, whereas i often feel incapable of measuring accurately. their personal values measured in pain and in pleasure provide a yardstick for the cost of experiences. intjs grow out of extremely sensitive children, their inability to easily cope with Fi fallout is what creates their hard outer casing. just like infj wants and tries to act emotionless to hide the inner turmoil from others, and the huge sway of feeling, emotion, investment, care, and attention that emerges out of us when others are nearby and interact with us.

i think some good points were brought up about how F folks who practice, especially Fi users, get some insulation bc they spend so much time feeling EVERYTHING. they are skilled, their overall emotional game is well developed, and they have emotional energies invested in many many directions that can adjust and get new emotional balance. intjs have far less investment in this area, have less solid foundation and anchorage, so the total disappearance once it spikes and supernovas tastes like death/dirt.

Am tired and (forgivably) drunk, so will respond more fully later. The only thing I'll say now is this: either you INF types are intuitive, so you KNOW what you're doing to us poor helpless Thinking types, or you aren't, in which case nobody knows what we're doing here ;-)

 

[the state i am in]

Am tired and (forgivably) drunk, so will respond more fully later. The only thing I'll say now is this: either you INF types are intuitive, so you KNOW what you're doing to us poor helpless Thinking types, or you aren't, in which case nobody knows what we're doing here ;-)

i'm not sure. Fi types are trustworthy and even better at seeming trustworthy so we Ni dom types trust them and let them in so we can soak up their sunshine rays and verbal eye squeezes. their feelings seem very real and present and tangible in the air, and since we can sense that, we trust that.

F types open up and unlock parts of T types that they don't trust/feel comfortable with. the smart F types are able to allow the T types to reciprocate and open up their T. my intj s.o. and my entp best friend have made me a million times more logical than i had previously been. it's nice being more logical, i behave less poorly, erratically, and hysterically. making better decisions, etc. learning to think sequentially and causally is a challenge for F types, especially F doms like ifps. it's even worse for them in that way than infjs, tho unlike infjs they at least can properly read their own emotional temperature (who are more wildly adjustable overall, albeit slow to realize this). there are of course weird off-shoots and Fi is better at mimicking Ti directly than Ni is (since Ni is a perceiving function), but overall, T ease is further away from infp than infj.

i know it seems pretty bad now, but intjs who do learn to use F well are amazing people.

 

[JivinJeffJones]

Sorry to hear about that cranky.

One thing I'll say is that I'm terrible at breaking up, and think other INFPs might be as well. I'm not quite sure why it is. Maybe the INFP drive for emotional authenticity means we can't stand feeling phoney, so once we realize we're not that into someone we want to get the breakup over and done with ASAP rather than pretending we still feel it.

For me, that was usually my motivating force for breaking up, and my guiding force during the breakup was (sad to say) a self-protective desire to actively limit empathy. Possibly the stress of such situations is enough to flip INFPs into their ESTJ shadow (still not sure I believe in the concept of shadows), though that seems a bit harsh to ESTJs and very generous to INFPs.

Again, sorry.

 

[Amargith]

It doesn't help that it is the natural way of an NFP to first get to know someone completely before feeling that they are right for us. We...do a thorough exam, you could say. And since Fi automatically demands an intense connection for that, it tends to push buttons that often in T's don't get pushed. You'd be wrong to think that this is something we do to harm you or hurt you. Or that we do it intentionally. Just like you are logical and to the point and efficient, and hurt people in the process, the same can happen becoz of our natural way of being. With time, we learn how to soothe that pain. You'll learn to be less abrasive, we'll learn to stay in a conflict situation and deal with it properly. It takes experience though.

 

[nonsequitur]

What do you think about : "It is better to love and lose than not love at all" ?

I personally believe that it's a complete lie. There are people whom I'd have given my life for whom I would prefer never to have met or known.

Cranky, speaking from personal experience, alcohol doesn't really work. It just makes you feel more disgusted with yourself later on and reduces your productivity. Being understood by people, understanding people and empathy doesn't really work either. It just drags you further down into that blackhole. The best (and healthiest) solution IMHO is to find something else - an interest - to be OCD about, and healthily wean yourself off that when you naturally lose interest.

 

[The Outsider]

I am sorry you had to deal with a person like that Cranky. That sounds horrible.

 

[Usehername]

It just drags you further down into that blackhole.

This metaphor implies that it's possible to come out of a black hole--have you no scientific metaphor respect?!

 

[Athenian200]

Cranky, speaking from personal experience, alcohol doesn't really work. It just makes you feel more disgusted with yourself later on and reduces your productivity. Being understood by people, understanding people and empathy doesn't really work either. It just drags you further down into that blackhole. The best (and healthiest) solution IMHO is to find something else - an interest - to be OCD about, and healthily wean yourself off that when you naturally lose interest.

I agree, very much.

That's what I naturally do in a situation like that, because my brain forces me to focus on analyzing what happened rather than dwelling emotionally. Spending my time going through all the various systems I can describe things in terms of generally gets me weaned off it eventually.



In case you're curious...

INTP is to INFJ as INFP is to INTJ. That means the closest thing I can be left with by INTP is an addled mind and mental exhaustion, though I've found they're not likely to do this. This actually did happen to me once when an INTP tricked me into thinking they had learned exactly what principles human behavior operates on, and how to link it into MBTI.

They ended up convincing me of a lot of correct-sounding, flawed ideas about MBTI that threw my typing and type perceptions off for months, and then convinced me to keep answering material and philosophical questions for his book, saying he'd link it all together with the main principle soon. Eventually, I realized that several of his ideas were flawed, and that he was using my ideas in his book... and I eventually stopped going along with it.

I was fine emotionally, but my understanding about several topics was totally warped, and I went around making incredibly ridiculous, inaccurate statements any time I tried to use my mind. It ended up taking an ENTJ and an INTJ to sort of put it back together again.

To give you an idea of how a mental wound might work... Let's just say I'm still freaked out by math. I find it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth when presented normally, because a teacher in 3rd grade told me numbers less than 0 didn't exist, and it caused me to have nightmares about an old-fashioned scale becoming so unbalanced on the right side (in the center was a 0) that it went vertical, and then plunged into an abyss. It sucked the world around it in as well, turning everything into a giant black hole. Every time I consciously think about math, I get the same disturbed feeling those dreams gave me. Unless an INFP grosses me out, of course, in which case I find myself obsessing over solving random arithmetic problems.

I'm more able to patch up newer ones, but the old ones... they still affect me.

 

[nonsequitur]

This metaphor implies that it's possible to come out of a black hole--have you no scientific metaphor respect?!

I meant rabbithole.

 

[Uytuun]

INTs when they fall, they almost free fall. It's a scary on several levels and also kind of wonderful if you can handle it.

*nods*

 

[Amargith]

Nothing quite like watching an INT letting go

 

[Cranky]

Cranky, speaking from personal experience, alcohol doesn't really work. It just makes you feel more disgusted with yourself later on and reduces your productivity. Being understood by people, understanding people and empathy doesn't really work either. It just drags you further down into that blackhole. The best (and healthiest) solution IMHO is to find something else - an interest - to be OCD about, and healthily wean yourself off that when you naturally lose interest.

I do agree about the alcohol; I am not going to be too hard on myself for a week or two, though. I play the piano (or more accurately, I USED to play the piano) very well, and I've scheduled a piano lesson today so that I have something to do and practice. Learning things always makes me feel better. And, if this makes sense, I'm not drinking to dull the pain, I'm doing a shot or two to be able to fully acknowledge it. I'm not going to crawl into a bottle. Besides, I have quite a tolerance, so that could get expensive QUICKLY. Also, fattening, and the LAST thing I want to do is get fat right now!

I'd rather just drink some now, eat some pastries, and pull myself out of it by learning things, because that will make me happy.

 

[runvardh]

This metaphor implies that it's possible to come out of a black hole--have you no scientific metaphor respect?!

Hawking Radiation

I do agree about the alcohol; I am not going to be too hard on myself for a week or two, though. I play the piano (or more accurately, I USED to play the piano) very well, and I've scheduled a piano lesson today so that I have something to do and practice. Learning things always makes me feel better. And, if this makes sense, I'm not drinking to dull the pain, I'm doing a shot or two to be able to fully acknowledge it. I'm not going to crawl into a bottle. Besides, I have quite a tolerance, so that could get expensive QUICKLY. Also, fattening, and the LAST thing I want to do is get fat right now!

I'd rather just drink some now, eat some pastries, and pull myself out of it by learning things, because that will make me happy.

Eh, I rather use scotch when I want to really drink; beer is for being social with my uncles. Looks like you still have a healthy way of mapping your way out of the dump, though.

 

[Edgar]

Being an INTJ myself, I can understand how you feel.

Here is a video to help you go through this:

[YOUTUBE="unkIVvjZc9Y"]Chopper's advice[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Cranky]

Being an INTJ myself, I can understand how you feel.

Here is a video to help you go through this:

[YOUTUBE="unkIVvjZc9Y"]Chopper's advice[/YOUTUBE]

I just SPEWED my coffee all over my lap from laughing so hard! "This is Stefan. His name is Stefan. Harden the F#@$ UP, Stefan!"

 

[Bubbles]

Speaking for myself, I have a huge desire when I'm in a relationship to know I'm 1) being totally honest about my feelings, 2) that this is something worth getting invested in, and 3) if neither of the above are there for me, I just want out.

I sort of bottled it when I went through that, kind of thought, "but everything was going so well, I can fix this, I'll be happy." Er. Denial didn't work for me. I'd be saying one thing to the guy, another thing to a friend, and finally the friend just said to me "You're miserable. Get out of this. Tell him. It's killing you to be in denial like that."

Soo. I took that advice. Pretty much was an emotional wreck while I spilled out my guts to the INTP. And instead of him just saying, okay be happy, he attacked me with logic until my little irrational fears went away. Talking about the problems I was bottling helped me be less of a freakout, I guess. Hah, I've discovered Ts get more Fi/Fe in emotional situations and Fs get more Ti/Te in them. Ironic.

But from what I see in this thread, and in myself, INFPs need major major certainties. Because we are scaredy-cats in the realm of love.

 

[OrangeAppled]

also, i identify with everything orangeappled said, although i don't know why (since i'm infj).

i think nf types often have a strong calling or pull to a better possibility of emotional relationality

I think a lot of it is just NF stuff. I can see bits of the accusations against ENFJs for being emotionally manipulative in what I wrote, and so I suppose any NF can seem that way. The needing time alone and space could probably apply to most introverts, and NFs particularly need to cultivate their own sense of identity.

Sorry to hear about that cranky.

One thing I'll say is that I'm terrible at breaking up, and think other INFPs might be as well. I'm not quite sure why it is. Maybe the INFP drive for emotional authenticity means we can't stand feeling phoney, so once we realize we're not that into someone we want to get the breakup over and done with ASAP rather than pretending we still feel it.

For me, that was usually my motivating force for breaking up, and my guiding force during the breakup was (sad to say) a self-protective desire to actively limit empathy. Possibly the stress of such situations is enough to flip INFPs into their ESTJ shadow (still not sure I believe in the concept of shadows), though that seems a bit harsh to ESTJs and very generous to INFPs.

Again, sorry.

I'm so guilty of this. I've done email breakups, and also just blown people off....you'd think I'd be more sensitive. I'm just afraid of getting talked into not breaking up, and I have this huge guilt when there's nothing for me to be guilty about.

And the ESTJ shadow is mainly the bad qualities or a distortion, which is why it can be ugly in an INFP.

 

[Usehername]

I meant rabbithole.

Hawking Radiation

From your link:

the gravitation is so powerful that nothing, not even radiation, can escape from the black hole.
...
This radiation does not come directly from the black hole itself, but rather is a result of virtual particles being "boosted" by the black hole's gravitation into becoming real particles.

 

[runvardh]

well, that was fun while it lasted... The proces does, however, remove mass from the blackhole causing it to evaporate.

 

[will5250]

Ok, now I'm nothing but PISSED OFF. I'm watching multiple threads in this forum, and what I see are INFPs complaining that INTJs walk all over them.

(Yes, I am aware that I'm whining and being unjust, but I'm also starting to get angry)

INFPs complain that we are insensitive and ruthless. They acknowledge that we don't mean to be; it's simply the way we're built.

Should I just acknowledge that INFPs are emotionally manipulative and take advantage of our total incapacity to deal with our feelings? I'll trade you. I cause the harm I do UNINTENTIONALLY out of insensitivity and cluelessness; you do what you do INTENTIONALLY out of curiosity and a desire to be helpful.

Now, *I'M* the one who feels like a lab rat.

I'm behind on this thread. My feelings get hurt soooooooooo easily. If I started something that you feel is unfair, I apologize. But I too have befriended a few INTJ folks, never fallen in love with any of them, but I love them as friends once I get to know them.

Edit: I just noticed I read the time wrong. I didn't start anything you might have read.