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[Traditional Enneagram] Ask me anything/Enneatype 5w4/5w6 (594)

Primary enneatype

  • 5w6

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • 5w4

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • sp/sx

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • sx/sp

    Votes: 2 66.7%
  • sp/so

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Not a 5

    Votes: 1 33.3%

  • Total voters
    3

rmrf

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
280
I'm still in limbo about having to select 5w4 or 5w6. It's difficult because both virtually describe me to a tee, I identify somewhat more with the descriptions for 5w4, but as far as the type component descriptions go, there is certainly quite a bit of 6 in me. It feels like the nucleus of my personality is 5w4 sx/sp (although as a whole my primary instinctual variant is sp/sx) but that there is a less organic "6w5 sp/so self preservation daemon", and that before I have opened up to people I externally project a serene "9w1 so/sp daemon". As far as tritypes go, I'm confident with the 594/549 archetype, but I consider tritypes to be a distinct system than identifying with a single winged enneagram type.

The online enneagram tests typically give me 5w6, but I think Enneagram isn't well suited to questionnaires and warrants a more humanistic approach to typing. Trying to write my bio and lifestory in a paragraph isn't one of my strong suits, so instead, I would like to do a Q/A format for typing me.

Hopefully I've been hear long enough that most will have some impression of me.

So without further ado, ask away :)
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,889
Is this a type me thread ?


My impression is more of a 5w4.
You seem more of a "knowledge for the sake of knowledge" kind of a person than a person that finds defence or seeks power in knowledge.
This is even more observable due to your almost poetic and light writing style. Also the interests you have named in your profile are closer to w4 in my opinion.


(I am 5w6)
 

violet_crown

Active member
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
4,959
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
853
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Is this a type me thread ?


My impression is more of a 5w4.
You seem more of a "knowledge for the sake of knowledge" kind of a person than a person that finds defence or seeks power in knowledge.
This is even more observable due to your almost poetic and light writing style. Also the interests you have named in your profile are closer to w4 in my opinion.


(I am 5w6)

I'd actually disagree. The anxiety and doubt of a 6 wing in an INTP is going to manifest a little differently than how it does for an INTJ. INTP 5w6 feel more secure when their Ne has had a chance to test all components of an idea or system to identify any possible source of threat. INTJ 5w6s seem to care more about whether the intended goal of the system could be gauged as corrupt.

[MENTION=25594]CognitiveLiberty[/MENTION] seems to have more of a 6s anxious energy than a 4s introspective energy. I go back and forth on a theoretical level as to whether "double wings" are possible, but I think that most people do at least see where adjacent types are going to be coming from. He also says that he has a 4 heart fix.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,889
I'd actually disagree. The anxiety and doubt of a 6 wing in an INTP is going to manifest a little differently than how it does for an INTJ. INTP 5w6 feel more secure when their Ne has had a chance to test all components of an idea or system to identify any possible source of threat. INTJ 5w6s seem to care more about whether the intended goal of the system could be gauged as corrupt.


I have already calculated that in the equation and he gives me more of a 5w4 vibe.
My main decision factors were the interests he named in his profile and his P score. Somehow I just do not see w6 in someone who is that much spontaneous.
He may feel as w6 because he is Sp dom and a 5 in core what is pretty defensive combination, but I would not give him w6.


My 2 cents.
 

violet_crown

Active member
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
4,959
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
853
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I have already calculated that in the equation and he gives me more of a 5w4 vibe.
My main decision factors were the interests he named in his profile and his P score. Somehow I just do not see w6 in someone who is that much spontaneous.
He may feel as w6 because he is Sp dom and a 5 in core what is pretty defensive combination, but I would not give him w6.


My 2 cents.

Interests from OPs Profile said:
Programming, Learning, Varied Science, Optics, Left politics, Photography, Philosophy

With the exception of photography, none of these interests are particularly 4ish to me.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,889
With the exception of photography, none of these interests are particularly 4ish to me.


Philosphy ?
True, nothing in here is patriculary 4ish but when all of this is summed somehow the impression is more of a "knowledge for the sake of knowledge" and that is basically the definition of 5w4.
 

violet_crown

Active member
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
4,959
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
853
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Philosphy ?
True, nothing in here is patriculary 4ish but when all of this is summed somehow the impression is more of a "knowledge for the sake of knowledge" and that is basically the definition of 5w4.

I think that's hard to prove just on face value of the interests alone. And even if you are correct in assuming that he's interested in knowledge for its own sake, that's something that could once again be ascribed to a difference between an INTP 5 and an INTJ 5.

You know, unless there is a discernible purpose for someone to know these specific subjects, and you just haven't picked up the pattern because the OP is smarter than you. :horror:
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,889
I think that's hard to prove just on face value of the interests alone. And even if you are correct in assuming that he's interested in knowledge for its own sake, that's something that could once again be ascribed to a difference between an INTP 5 and an INTJ 5.

You know, unless there is a discernible purpose for someone to know these specific subjects, and you just haven't picked up the pattern because the OP is smarter than you. :horror:


Well this is the Interent and everthing here is just a form of specualtion. I never claimed that my opinion is the absolute truth.


Perhaps, but if he is so smart I somehow doubt he would risk exposing himself by asking silly questions such as this one. :tongue10:
 

violet_crown

Active member
Joined
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Messages
4,959
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
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sx/sp
Well this is the Interent and everthing here is just a form of specualtion. I never claimed that my opinion is the absolute truth.

Omg such an Ni backpedal hahaha! :laugh:


Perhaps, but if he is so smart I somehow doubt he would risk exposing himself by asking silly questions such as this one. :tongue10:

I love the subtle insinuation of nefarious purpose to "Programming, Learning, Varied Science, Optics, Left politics, Photography, Philosophy". Maybe he will rule the world with code that changes all photos on Facebook to the same horrible, Myspace angle abomination covered in laser beams and sparkle cats.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,889
Omg such an Ni backpedal hahaha! :laugh:


Guilty as charged.






I love the subtle insinuation of nefarious purpose to "Programming, Learning, Varied Science, Optics, Left politics, Photography, Philosophy". Maybe he will rule the world with code that changes all photos on Facebook to the same horrible, Myspace angle abomination covered in laser beams and sparkle cats.

My point exacly.
You are not really reading my posts on the forum aren't you ?


As the 5w6 I have been born in Communism and I grew up in a war zone right next to the concentration camps. I have learned to play chess before I learned to read and I have read over 100 books about the nature of reality and universe. I also have two high education directions: one is about material mangement such as water supplies, oil extraction and ore processing and the other is problem solving in mass media. Most of my childhod I have spend playing strategy games in ratios 1 vs 3 or 1 vs 4 and I have never been in love or went to church on Sunday. Plus once I got kicked out of university because of administartive mistake.



C'mon the guy has to be an 5w4. :D
 
Last edited:

grey_beard

The Typing Tabby
Joined
Jan 28, 2014
Messages
1,478
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Coming in late to the thread.

I'd be more interested in nailing down both the 5w4 vs 5w6 wing stuff, as I long thought I had both (with 5w4 dominant); but I always associated the 4 wing with a private habituation to melancholy than just "knowledge for knowledge's sake". Another way to pin down the "knowledge for knowledge's sake" is whether the OP has a mind like a sponge, with lots of information ferreted away in various corners that they don't remember learning, but they can recall at a moment's notice if it is relevant to the conversation.

I also haven't seen any discussion of the OPs instinctual variant: if they are sx/sp I'd expect them to be mainly aloof, but when finding compatibility with a friend or romantic interest, to zoom in for the kill like a supersonic vulture (bad analogy, I know, as vultures eat dead flesh...but I haven't had enough coffee this morning.)

Oh, and the sx-dom will tend to go a bit overboard at first on new interests or hobbies, once they are excited enough to pursue them.

Comments, spinoffs, welcome.
I'll probably ignore argumentation for its own sake, though, as I am seeking more information, or trying to spur the sharing of that information, rather than pronounce a considered opinion...
 

rmrf

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
280
I don't have a lot of doubts about my instinctual variant - sp/sx. I usually come across quite guarded and reserved, and feel like sp > sx.

knowledge for knowledge's sake" is whether the OP has a mind like a sponge, with lots of information ferreted away in various corners that they don't remember learning, but they can recall at a moment's notice if it is relevant to the conversation.

People have described me as being like this. Generally, I've attributed that attribute to having a good handle on tertiary Si.

While I suppose it isn't inaccurate to say "I like knowledge for knowledge's sake", but one distinction is that I do find the application/utility of knowledge quite interesting but mostly in the context that seeing the application of a concept is some more intellectually satisfying knowledge to add to my collection.

While I identified with almost everything in the descriptions of 5w4, on most enneagram tests I do score fairly high on 6 (I've got a screenshot of the last test I did, will post it when I find it), what leans me towards 6 is my security consciousness, I have a tendency to always be Ti/Ne around my environment looking for possibilities that can go wrong and like taking little precuations (e.g I always will turn everything off at the outlet before going to bed, just in case of electrical faults etc).

Oh, and the sx-dom will tend to go a bit overboard at first on new interests or hobbies, once they are excited enough to pursue them.

I don't tend to get overboard at first, I generally start with some degree of skepticism, but once it starts interesting me, I tend to gain momentum pretty quickly.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,889
I don't have a lot of doubts about my instinctual variant - sp/sx. I usually come across quite guarded and reserved, and feel like sp > sx.



People have described me as being like this. Generally, I've attributed that attribute to having a good handle on tertiary Si.

While I suppose it isn't inaccurate to say "I like knowledge for knowledge's sake", but one distinction is that I do find the application/utility of knowledge quite interesting but mostly in the context that seeing the application of a concept is some more intellectually satisfying knowledge to add to my collection.

While I identified with almost everything in the descriptions of 5w4, on most enneagram tests I do score fairly high on 6 (I've got a screenshot of the last test I did, will post it when I find it), what leans me towards 6 is my security consciousness, I have a tendency to always be Ti/Ne around my environment looking for possibilities that can go wrong and like taking little precuations (e.g I always will turn everything off at the outlet before going to bed, just in case of electrical faults etc).


I don't tend to get overboard at first, I generally start with some degree of skepticism, but once it starts interesting me, I tend to gain momentum pretty quickly.



I want to say that I am sorry for the joke that got a little bit out of hand in your thread. Rex positioned herself so well that I just could not resist.


The truth is that I do not know you and I can't trully say with certainty the detail such as w4 vs. w6. Especially since I am from totally different culture than you.
Therefore if you say that you are w6 then I will believe you. It is just that I do not picture you as a someone who is careful as I am.
 

violet_crown

Active member
Joined
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Messages
4,959
MBTI Type
ENTJ
Enneagram
853
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Coming in late to the thread.

I'd be more interested in nailing down both the 5w4 vs 5w6 wing stuff, as I long thought I had both (with 5w4 dominant); but I always associated the 4 wing with a private habituation to melancholy than just "knowledge for knowledge's sake". Another way to pin down the "knowledge for knowledge's sake" is whether the OP has a mind like a sponge, with lots of information ferreted away in various corners that they don't remember learning, but they can recall at a moment's notice if it is relevant to the conversation.

I also haven't seen any discussion of the OPs instinctual variant: if they are sx/sp I'd expect them to be mainly aloof, but when finding compatibility with a friend or romantic interest, to zoom in for the kill like a supersonic vulture (bad analogy, I know, as vultures eat dead flesh...but I haven't had enough coffee this morning.)

Oh, and the sx-dom will tend to go a bit overboard at first on new interests or hobbies, once they are excited enough to pursue them.

Comments, spinoffs, welcome.
I'll probably ignore argumentation for its own sake, though, as I am seeking more information, or trying to spur the sharing of that information, rather than pronounce a considered opinion...

Ok, so let's back up a minute. The core difference between 5w4 and 5w6 is not "knowledge for its own sake" as all 5s are knowledge seeking. Theoretically, a core 5 seeks knowledge as a means to control their world. The more information they acquire and the better mastery they have over that information, the more secure they feel and the less they feel dependent on external resources. The wing will both a) add some additional shade and nuance to their motivation for knowledge acquisition, and therefore b) the type of knowledge and intellectual experiences they feel to be most relevant.

So let's talk about wings.

Riso-Hudson distinguishes the 5w4 as "seeking Knowledge and Identity":

Description of 5w4s said:
The difference between the 4 wing and the 6 wing in Fives is like the difference between Art and Science. 4 wing brings an abstract, intuitive cast of thought, as though the Five were thinking in geometric shapes instead of words or realistic images. May be talented artistically and inhabit moods like Fours do. Combine intellectual and emotional imagination. Enjoy the realm of philosophy and beautiful constructs of thought. The marriage of mental perspective and aesthetics is the best of life for them. When more defensive may seem a little ghostly, have a whisper in their voice. Fluctuate between impersonal withdrawal and bursts of friendly caring. Can get floaty and abstract. Act like they're inside a bubble, sometimes with an air of implicit superiority. Cliché of the "absentminded professor" applies especially to Fives with this wing. Environmentally sensitive and subject at times to total overwhelm. Touchy about criticism. Can be slow to recover from traumatic events. Melancholy isolation and bleak existential depression are possible pitfalls.

...while 5w6s are "seeking Knowledge and Security":

Description of 5w6s said:
The 6 wing brings an orientation to detail and technical knowledge, along with the tendency to think in logical sequence. Especially intellectual, far more analytical than Fives with a 4 wing. Can be loyal friends, offering strong behind-the-scenes support. Kind, patient teachers, skillful experts. May have a sense of mission and work hard. Sometimes project an aura of sensitive nerdiness and have clumsy social skills. When defensive, they can be unnerved by the expectations of others. May like people more but avoid them more. Especially sensitive to social indebtedness. Could have trouble saying "thank you." Fear of taking action, develop "information addiction" instead. Ask lots of questions but don't get around to the decision at hand. When more entranced, they develop a suspicious scrutiny of other people's motives but can also be blind followers. Misanthropic and Scrooge-like when defensive. More able to keep their feelings cut off in a constant way. Can be cold, skeptical, ironic, and disassociated. A Five's 6 wing can be phobic or counterphobic. Counterphobic 6 wing brings courage and antiauthoritarian attitudes. When defensive they may mock authority, or angrily tell others off. Tend to "push the envelope," experiment, find what the limits are.


The distinctions that we can gleam from these descriptions are important. In the case of the 5w4, the quest for knowledge is implicitly one of self-discovery as well. They seek the knowledge that they need to create themselves in their own image, free from the constraints of any countervailing external influence. Hence the moniker "Iconoclast". Relevant questions for the 5w4 are more likely to pertain to what is essential to leading a life that is authentic and self-actualizing, and what are the relevant resources to make that life a reality.

The 5w6, on the other hand, collects information as something of a bulwark against the rest of the world. The distrust of external systems imbued by the w6 prompts them to seek out impeccable internal ones. The mindset is more of the survivalist, "If all else fails, I'll still have me." The mentality is equally insular, but of a more pragmatic and reality-oriented mindset. If the 5w4 is building a castle in the sky, the 5w6 has got a fortress in the backyard.

Hopefully, this will provide you and [MENTION=25594]CognitiveLiberty[/MENTION] some food for thought. I feel the types are pretty easy to distinguish, so maybe this will bring some clarity for you two as well.

I will now return to my regularly scheduled flirtatious banter with [MENTION=4347]Virtual ghost[/MENTION]. Excuse me.
 

violet_crown

Active member
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Messages
4,959
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ENTJ
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sx/sp
Guilty as charged.

It's ok. I accept you. :hug:

You are not really reading my posts on the forum aren't you ?

I wasn't aware that there was homework for this thread, so no.

As the 5w6 I have been born in Communism and I grew up in a war zone right next to the concentration camps. I have learned to play chess before I learned to read and I have read over 100 books about the nature of reality and universe. I also have two high education directions: one is about material mangement such as water supplies, oil extraction and ore processing and the other is problem solving in mass media. Most of my childhod I have spend playing strategy games in ratios 1 vs 3 or 1 vs 4 and I have never been in love or went to church on Sunday. Plus once I got kicked out of university because of administartive mistake.

These are pretty solid super villain credentials. Do you have a luxurious handle bar mustache that you twirl while you are planning evil deeds? How are you with intimidating cat stroking?

Coming from a Communist country, it would make sense about the church stuff, but why do you think you've never been in love? Love is a pretty worthwhile experience, imo.


I want to say that I am sorry for the joke that got a little bit out of hand in your thread. Rex positioned herself so well that I just could not resist.

I regret nothing (...I think?) :bunnyd:
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,889
It's ok. I accept you. :hug:

These are pretty solid super villain credentials. Do you have a luxurious handle bar mustache that you twirl while you are planning evil deeds? How are you with intimidating cat stroking?

If I tell you that I would just have to kill you .... and I would hate to do that. Violence towards women is too old school for me. :evilgenius:



Why do you think you've never been in love? Love is a pretty worthwhile experience, imo.



It turned out that life just wanted me to become the impersonation of certain INTJ stereotypes to such degree that I just have to joke about it. (and you served yourself on a plate)
With this I also became stereotypical 5w6 so I may not see others as 5w6 due to my unabalanced tendencies. Sometimes I trully think about why don't I just become Bond vilain, I have all the cards.
Why I never loved ? I am for days writting about that in the ENFP/INTJ thread in the NT section. However there are also mentioning of ENTJ women. (what is your kind I believe)

So you are welcome to crash the party if you are ever in the mood. :cool:
 

rmrf

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
280
[MENTION=7254]Wind Up Rex[/MENTION]
Cheers for that post, it's been quite helpful. My quest for knowledge I think is far more externally focused than a quest for self discovery, I think, only implicitly, that it's driven by security. While the term 'iconoclast' I very much identify with, I think that's probably a manifestation of a counterphobic 6wing. So all things considered, I think I'm going to go with 5w6 (I do have 4ish tendencies, but it looks like they are from the 4w5 within the tritype than a w4.

I'm still interested in hearing other thoughts though.
 

Rambling

New member
Joined
Jun 6, 2014
Messages
401
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'm a 5w6 but I am interested in the question of how my 5w4 side can be distinguished from my 4w5 tritype in the heart triad, since the four is being accessed from two different directions. I think I'm aware of my 4w3 but there is also some 4w5 going on, and it's not always easy to see that separately from the 5w4.
 

rmrf

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
280
I noticed one of the votes was for 'Not a 5', so I'm curious if anyone has some other suggestions of my primary Enneagram type. Also about sx/sp or sp/sx. I'm reasonably confident I'm the latter, but would be interested in hearing about easy ways of discerning the two.
 

rmrf

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
280
Bump: Even though I've been up till now too shy to share it on TypC, perhaps looking at my youtube channel may shed some light on 5w4 vs 5w6 (most of my vids were made when I was around 14-15 (chemistry) and 16-17 (pharmacology)). I think my somewhat dangerous hobby chemistry shows counterphobic e6
https://www.youtube.com/user/mewrox99
 
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