[Traditional Enneagram] Ask a 4!

[hjgbujhghg]

We're the heart of the enneagram. We'll love you and make you a song about it just so the next day we can throw the guitar in your face!
Ask us anything

 

[RobinSkye]

Tell me I'm a 4.

 

[hjgbujhghg]

Tell me I'm a 4.

this is not even a question and ENTP 4? Really?

 

[RobinSkye]

this is not even a question and ENTP 4? Really?

Tell me I'm an INFP.

 

[hjgbujhghg]

Tell me I'm an INFP.

nah.... no way you're getting this one out of me

 

[RobinSkye]

nah.... no way you're getting this one out of me

Okay I originally tested as INFP, but I've recently convinced myself to be decided on ENTP. Really, I could see myself as any NP.

 

[HongDou]

What are the core motivations and elements of being a 4 versus what's typically believed among the typology community?

Also, I've noticed that 4s tend to have this paradoxical side to them where they're idealistic romantics but in a very disillusioned and "edgy" sense while they find that sugar-coated/blindly optimistic kind of idealism cheesy and lacking substance. Would you say this is true and why do you think this happens?

 

[hjgbujhghg]

Okay I originally tested as INFP, but I've recently convinced myself to be decided on ENTP. Really, I could see myself as any NP.

Honestly you don't strike as either INFP or 4 to me... But I haven't really read your posts so far, so I can't tell. You could be anything... I am just not really willing to let people into INFP 4 club so easily. I have to admit I am nor objective nor logical when I see an INFP or a 4 hanging around

 

[fetus]

Okay I originally tested as INFP, but I've recently convinced myself to be decided on ENTP. Really, I could see myself as any NP.

If you're sure you're an NP and a 4, you're probably an F. I've not heard of many Thinking 4's. If you think you're an ENTP, maybe you should look into ENFP...

 

[hjgbujhghg]

What are the core motivations and elements of being a 4 versus what's typically believed among the typology community?

Also, I've noticed that 4s tend to have this paradoxical side to them where they're idealistic romantics but in a very disillusioned and "edgy" sense while they find that sugar-coated/blindly optimistic kind of idealism cheesy and lacking substance. Would you say this is true and why do you think this happens?

When it comes to the core elements and motivations, I can only speak for me and I don't think my desires would be so different from those typically presented.
What's the most important for me is self-expression. I am sure that self-expression in its true meaning is more crucial for 4w3s than 4w5s thought.

The stereotype of a pink unicorn vomiting rainbow is truly repulsive... well I believe it's our desire for finding the true self, the true essence of people and things and the kind of optimism you describe simply seems to lack the true essence of the self.

 

[Kas]

What are the core motivations and elements of being a 4 versus what's typically believed among the typology community?

Also, I've noticed that 4s tend to have this paradoxical side to them where they're idealistic romantics but in a very disillusioned and "edgy" sense while they find that sugar-coated/blindly optimistic kind of idealism cheesy and lacking substance. Would you say this is true and why do you think this happens?

I would say that permanent longing is the foundation of the type. Probably 4w3 long more for self-expression and 4w5 more for self-understanding. But most of what is believed in typology community is also a true.

4s don’t usually see the world through rose-colored glasses. Blind-optimism isn’t my thing. Still I think I’m idealistic person.
Speaking about romantism I think love is often important for 4s because we are longing for strong connections with other people. I believe the connections with other people is very important(friendships, love), but I know too it's not easy to build and then it doesn’t get easier. For you to judge if that's cheesy

The other thing is this whole imagining perfect relationship or dreaming about somebody you can’t have. I know it’s part of 4 stereotype and I can’t speak for all 4s but it was (hopefully past tense) my problem. I don’t really know where this behavior comes from, but clearly it has nothing to do with optimism.

 

[Qlip]

I would say that permanent longing is the foundation of the type. Probably 4w3 long more for self-expression and 4w5 more for self-understanding. But most of what is believed in typology community is also a true.

4s don’t usually see the world through rose-colored glasses. Blind-optimism isn’t my thing. Still I think I’m idealistic person.
Speaking about romantism I think love is often important for 4s because we are longing for strong connections with other people. I believe the connections with other people is very important(friendships, love), but I know too it's not easy to build and then it doesn’t get easier. For you to judge if that's cheesy

The other thing is this whole imagining perfect relationship or dreaming about somebody you can’t have. I know it’s part of 4 stereotype and I can’t speak for all 4s but it was (hopefully past tense) my problem. I don’t really know where this behavior comes from, but clearly it has nothing to do with optimism.

For some reason I don't really do this. I long for the perfect life, which may involve a person who fits into it. But it's been a very long time since my idea of perfection involved the concept of somebody to complete me. I think it's because I've been in a very long time relationship which I ultimately felt compromised by, and coming off of it was a process of realizing that being alone, romantically, is a very viable option. Knowing that brings a lot of peace and opens up my horizons considerably.

I do like your observations about 4w3 being focused on expression and 4w5 focused on understanding. I almost feel like most 4's will swing between wings at times.

 

[hjgbujhghg]

For some reason I don't really do this. I long for the perfect life, which may involve a person who fits into it. But it's been a very long time since my idea of perfection involved the concept of somebody to complete me. I think it's because I've been in a very long time relationship which I ultimately felt compromised by, and coming off of it was a process of realizing that being alone, romantically, is a very viable option. Knowing that brings a lot of peace and opens up my horizons considerably.

I do like your observations about 4w3 being focused on expression and 4w5 focused on understanding. I almost feel like most 4's will swing between wings at times.

I do not do this either... partnership does not hold such an imporatnce for me. I am absolutly oriented on the image and on the self.

 

[Galena]

For some reason I don't really do this. I long for the perfect life, which may involve a person who fits into it. But it's been a very long time since my idea of perfection involved the concept of somebody to complete me. I think it's because I've been in a very long time relationship which I ultimately felt compromised by, and coming off of it was a process of realizing that being alone, romantically, is a very viable option. Knowing that brings a lot of peace and opens up my horizons considerably.

When I was a teenager, hellz yes I did it a lot, but now I'm like this. Even then, while I dreamed about a soulmate, it wasn't something I actually expected to come true - I don't go that far with anything, really. I may want things, sometimes even feel I should or must have them, but I don't expect them to come to me unless I go pursue them for myself. And only if I want to anyway. On one hand, that's initiative; on the other hand, that can easily turn into precipitous action to take charge of situations where it's not necessary.

 

[pluviophile]

I long for many things, and they are not always related to one particular person, people in general, or relationships. I was trying to find a word to match my feelings once and I googled and found hiraeth. I experience that feeling so much. Many times, or maybe almost all of the times, my inner world, my safe place, my imagination get-away is constructed around whatever/whoever I'm currently longing for. It's like, I might not even really care that much about having whatever it is, but I just need something to daydream about. So, I'm comfortable in my longing. I don't know if this is a 4 thing for sure.

I would like to ask 4's how they figured out their wing. I have tested both ways and even tested to have equally balanced wings. I feel like I can see myself being both ways in different times/moods/situations. I can't figure out if my tritype is 468 or 469 either. Again, I can be both ways. Anyways, I'm not asking you to analyze me and figure out my type. I'm asking what resources or particular areas of the descriptions helped you to determine yours.

Also, does everyone feel that way about their enneagram descriptions, or do a lot of sites just make 4s sound really awful?

 

[hjgbujhghg]

4 sounds really awful to me personally... it's basically like having a disorder or something. Not saying that all 4s have some disorder, just saying that a lot of descriptions make us sound like we do

 

[thoughtlost]

I could be wrong, but according to theorists, image types primarily deal with shame. It doesn't look like typical shame, though. So what is it actually like for 4s?

 

[MyCupOfTea]

If someone criticizes you about something that you feel is unjustified, what is your inward/outward reaction? How do you process these kind of accusations? Or do you just let them pass?

 

[1487610420]

Can this

Magazine: Life and death along the Thai-Myanmar border - Al Jazeera English

get you out of "woe is me" and if so for how long? :hi:

 

[Kas]

I could be wrong, but according to theorists, image types primarily deal with shame. It doesn't look like typical shame, though. So what is it actually like for 4s?

Shame? Hard question.
Not as blushing etc. However if we define shame as unpleasant feeling caused by not reaching yours standards than I could agree. I think that as very introspective types we tend to see more our disabilities. We also might tend to set high standards for ourselves (like1s?).

If someone criticizes you about something that you feel is unjustified, what is your inward/outward reaction? How do you process these kind of accusations? Or do you just let them pass?

Depends on the person and what is the subject of critique. If it’s somebody that isn’t close to me I don’t really react outside, inside depends if it’s touchy subject, it may hurt me a bit. If it’s somebody close I don’t take critique very well. Part of me rationally appreciate the constructive critique and in the end I believe it’s better to hear it even if I don’t agree, then I can discuss this. The other part of me is taking everything very personally, so there can be some drama.

Can this

Magazine: Life and death along the Thai-Myanmar border - Al Jazeera English

get you out of "woe is me" and if so for how long? :hi:

No I actually think that if somebody is feeling badly telling him that other have worse is pointless- it's obvious and it's no help. It’s like saying “Don’t worry” to someone who is worrying.
The best way when I’m feeling badly is actually distracting me and cheering me up or just leaving me alone(depends...).

I like reportages, but of other reasons.