Anger and guilt

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Can anger come from feeling guilty about something ? Like perhaps being lazy, undisciplined, and procrastinating?

 

[Fluffywolf]

I think so.

For starters it could be a direct link to self anger. And it could also lead to frustrations that in turn lead to anger expressed to others.

Any negative emotion can potentially turn into anger. Anger is like the ultimate, but irrational, outlet of negative emotions.

 

[/DG/]

Speaking from experience, yes.

 

[Hypatia]

Yes, frustration comes to mind. But it's probably not healthy to dwell on. Best to identify the problem and take steps towards a solution.

 

[RDF]

One popular way of interpreting anger is to see it as an indication that one is overly attached to a single outcome.

Example: An new upgrade or version of an old computer game comes out. You play the new version of the game and decide that it sucks. There are two possible scenarios:

1) If you really liked the older version of the game and were anticipating that the new version would be even better, then you may feel terribly let down by the new version and may feel angry at the developers of the new version. IOW, in this scenario you were emotionally attached to a certain outcome (that the game would be good) and you were disappointed.

2) OTOH, if you didn’t particularly care about that game beforehand, then you won’t be as attached to the outcome; when you find out that the new version sucks, it’s no big deal; there are plenty of other interesting games to play out there; it’s no big deal if this one game sucks. So you don't feel any great anger, and it's easy to move on.

Similar to scenario #1, above: One can get «overly attached to a single outcome» when it comes to one’s work or one’s relationship or even one’s view of oneself. If you have a specific vision or plan as to how your job, marriage, or life should turn out, then you may become quite angry when that plan subsequently becomes derailed by events. Overplanning and excessive attachment to a single outcome is almost guaranteed to result in anger and frustration when life throws its inevitable curve balls.

Hence your question:

Can anger come from feeling guilty about something ? Like perhaps being lazy, undisciplined, and procrastinating?

If you’re overly attached to a certain vision of yourself as a productive, disciplined, proactive individual, then you may feel quite angry when you find that you can’t live up to that vision due to personal shortcomings. In this case, I wouldn’t necessarily say that the anger results from the guilt; instead, probably the anger results from the misalignment of your personal vision of yourself and the reality (being overly attached to an unrealistic or unattainable outcome), while the guilt may be your reaction to the perceived causes (your personal shortcomings); i.e., shame that you let yourself be derailed so easily by procrastination, etc.

As to what to do about it: The obvious quick fix is to allow for the possibility of other outcomes (see scenario #2, above). This is why it’s good to have a lifestyle with lots of different alternatives and interests: You don’t want to get overly fixated on one project or vision or plan or outcome and then crash when it turns out to be unachievable. You want to view life like one of your computer games: If the latest upgrade of one game turns out sucky, then you want to have lots of other computer games available to play, rather than mourning or getting angry over the suckiness of that one particular game.

OTOH, there’s the alternative view that anger can be harnessed positively. One attribute of anger is that it usually includes the assumption that you can still do something about the situation. (The alternative is sadness, which results when you know you can do nothing about the outcome, such as when someone dies.) So anger may induce you to re-examine the situation and attack it from a new angle or learn new skills so that you can make a second, more successful run at a project.

To sum up: A good way to view anger is as a normal, healthy reaction to a misalignment between expectations and outcome. From there, you can re-examine the situation and choose one of two possible paths:

A) Realize that your expectation was perhaps unrealistic, and be in a position to accept an unanticipated outcome and move on without wasting a lot of energy and mourning over it. In other words, don’t be overly attached to a single outcome.

or

B) Decide that you want to take a second run at the problem, but recognize that you need additional resources in order to be more successful next time; and go seek out those resources.

Not to be trite, but the Serenity Prayer sums up these two choices nicely: «God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.»

 

[five sounds]

That's probably where most of my anger has come from in life. Just feeling bad about myself. Wanting to do better and failing again. It's like a frustrated anger. I'm doing my best to eliminate that reaction or at least reduce it. I'm better than I used to be. But it still gets me sometimes.

 

[RDF]

I'm getting up toward 60 years old. I've learned to suck it up and move on. No regrets; I don't have time for them.

 

[James W]

Can anger come from feeling guilty about something ? Like perhaps being lazy, undisciplined, and procrastinating?

Would you say these are personal feelings you've been experiencing or just a passing curiosity on the subject?

Anger can arise in many specific ways, but when it's to do with self stagnation and feelings of "why is shit not getting done?" that can be a catalyst in a constant cycle of negative thought patterns.

My advice to somebody going through this is to start taking action. Literally, stop what you're doing, clear your mind of all thoughts of distraction and focus only on the thing you want to achieve. Delete Facebook from your bookmark toolbar if that helps. There's nothing worse than stewing in your own frustration because you feel like bad habits are holding you back and once you start being proactive and occupying your time on more productive things, your attention will stop being so focused on yourself and that anger will slowly dissipate over time. And weirdly enough, you start getting over yourself and enjoying life more. Clichéd I know and people have heard it all before, but it's only thing that actually works.

It's weird how simple it is. The more you think, the less you do.

But yeah, anger can definitely come from feelings of guilt for those particular reasons you've mentioned. It's a very relatable situation for me, personally.

OTOH, there’s the alternative view that anger can be harnessed positively. One attribute of anger is that it usually includes the assumption that you can still do something about the situation. (The alternative is sadness, which results when you know you can do nothing about the outcome, such as when someone dies.) So anger may induce you to re-examine the situation and attack it from a new angle or learn new skills so that you can make a second, more successful run at a project.»

This is a very interesting analogy.

That's probably where most of my anger has come from in life. Just feeling bad about myself. Wanting to do better and failing again. It's like a frustrated anger. I'm doing my best to eliminate that reaction or at least reduce it. I'm better than I used to be. But it still gets me sometimes.

I think failure is more important than success in many aspects of life. Builds a thicker skin, gives a better sense of character and perspective etc.

I'm getting up toward 60 years old. I've learned to suck it up and move on. No regrets; I don't have time for them.

That's pretty badass dude. I like your moxy

 

[Fluffywolf]

I'm getting up toward 60 years old. I've learned to suck it up and move on. No regrets; I don't have time for them.

 

[prplchknz]

i have a lot of anger and guilt

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

One popular way of interpreting anger is to see it as an indication that one is overly attached to a single outcome.

Example: An new upgrade or version of an old computer game comes out. You play the new version of the game and decide that it sucks. There are two possible scenarios:

1) If you really liked the older version of the game and were anticipating that the new version would be even better, then you may feel terribly let down by the new version and may feel angry at the developers of the new version. IOW, in this scenario you were emotionally attached to a certain outcome (that the game would be good) and you were disappointed.

2) OTOH, if you didn’t particularly care about that game beforehand, then you won’t be as attached to the outcome; when you find out that the new version sucks, it’s no big deal; there are plenty of other interesting games to play out there; it’s no big deal if this one game sucks. So you don't feel any great anger, and it's easy to move on.

Similar to scenario #1, above: One can get «overly attached to a single outcome» when it comes to one’s work or one’s relationship or even one’s view of oneself. If you have a specific vision or plan as to how your job, marriage, or life should turn out, then you may become quite angry when that plan subsequently becomes derailed by events. Overplanning and excessive attachment to a single outcome is almost guaranteed to result in anger and frustration when life throws its inevitable curve balls.

Hence your question:



If you’re overly attached to a certain vision of yourself as a productive, disciplined, proactive individual, then you may feel quite angry when you find that you can’t live up to that vision due to personal shortcomings.

I don't have that vision at all. It's just that I've realized that I'll need to become that person to get what I want. And I've wanted these things as long as i can remember. The interesting thing form me is just how many behaviors and attitudes I can change. I don't feel like it makes me less "me".

I don't need to be more forgiving with myself, not about that kind of thing. I need to be tougher with myself, and I'm starting to find that I enjoy life better when I am. When I'm not, it always seems to linger in my mind what I should be doing, anyway.

OTOH, there’s the alternative view that anger can be harnessed positively. One attribute of anger is that it usually includes the assumption that you can still do something about the situation. (The alternative is sadness, which results when you know you can do nothing about the outcome, such as when someone dies.) So anger may induce you to re-examine the situation and attack it from a new angle or learn new skills so that you can make a second, more successful run at a project.

This part rings truer for me. To me it makes no sense that we would evolve something as potentially destructive as anger if it did not have some kind of benefit.

To sum up: A good way to view anger is as a normal, healthy reaction to a misalignment between expectations and outcome. From there, you can re-examine the situation and choose one of two possible paths:

A) Realize that your expectation was perhaps unrealistic, and be in a position to accept an unanticipated outcome and move on without wasting a lot of energy and mourning over it. In other words, don’t be overly attached to a single outcome.

or

B) Decide that you want to take a second run at the problem, but recognize that you need additional resources in order to be more successful next time; and go seek out those resources.

I think I can change a lot more things than I would have previously thought possible.

 

[AzulEyes]

I think most anger is actually frustration.
Frustration for not being heard.
Frustration for things not going your way.
Frustration for not "winning" the argument.
Anger is sort of losing control in a fit of frustration- or releasing the frustration through anger.

 

[wolfy]

I think most anger is actually frustration.
Frustration for not being heard.
Frustration for things not going your way.
Frustration for not "winning" the argument.
Anger is sort of losing control in a fit of frustration- or releasing the frustration through anger.

This.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I think most anger is actually frustration.
Frustration for not being heard.
Frustration for things not going your way.
Frustration for not "winning" the argument.
Anger is sort of losing control in a fit of frustration- or releasing the frustration through anger.

Then what is anger? more vocal frustration?

 

[AzulEyes]

Then what is anger? more vocal frustration?

I feel like it is an expression of frustration. Either inwardly or outwardly. Inward- letting things 'brew" and turn your stomach --- making you pace. Letting the frustration get the best of you. Outwardly- punching walls, swearing, yelling.

 

[AzulEyes]

Don't a lot of people with "anger management issues" have some sort of baseline "entitlement" issue? It's MY RIGHT to be in charge of you---- or this outcome ----- How dare someone do it their way---- when it's supposed to be MY WAY!

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Don't a lot of people with "anger management issues" have some sort of baseline "entitlement" issue? It's MY RIGHT to be in charge of you---- or this outcome ----- How dare someone do it their way---- when it's supposed to be MY WAY!

Pretty sure women get angry, too. Are women entitled?

Anytime someone insinuates that they "never get angry", that arouses suspicion.


''I'm not aware when I get angry, and I think I'm doing something other than getting angry/it doesn't count as anger because I'm objectively right."

In fact, I've seen you get angry on this forum on several occasions when talking about situations in your personal life.

You also said that anger can come from needing to be right all the time and win arguments. I'm not sure, but I think you're referring to me.

In which, case, you are mistaken. I don't need to be right all the time, and in fact, would often prefer to be wrong on many occasions. Like, for instance, with regards to hidden intentions behind statements. Often, giving people the benefit of the doubt just ends up confirming what I suspected to be the case anyway. I also have no interest in winning arguments, but I'm not going to let another person win just so they can feel better about themselves. Someone must defeat me by honest means, and that has in fact happened on this forum. Emotional manipulation and shaming is not an honest way of winning an argument.

 

[highlander]

Anytime someone insinuates that they "never get angry", that arouses suspicion.

9s are like this. Anger? What anger? It's there under the surface - subconscious but not expressed.

I think most anger is actually frustration.
Frustration for not being heard.
Frustration for things not going your way.
Frustration for not "winning" the argument.
Anger is sort of losing control in a fit of frustration- or releasing the frustration through anger.

I think that's a great definition.

Then what is anger? more vocal frustration?

It doesn't have to be expressed at all. It's felt. I don't think it's a particularly good idea to bottle it up but everyone is different.

 

[uumlau]

Anger comes from all sorts of things, and anger is not a "negative" emotion. It's how one reacts to an emotion that is positive or negative. Anger can result in someone deciding to improve things, or focus on the task at hand, just as "love" can cause someone to become a creepy stalker of the object of one's affection.

Some people should probably allow more anger in their lives, e.g., Enneagram 9s. Others could do with less anger.

In the case of the OP, being angry because of guilt over one's personal flaws can result in positive changes. Anger, like all emotions, is best thought of as a signal. We tend to get caught up in feeling the emotions, and want to only feel the good emotions without doing the work that the "bad" emotions indicate we need to do.

W/r to being lazy, undisciplined, and procrastinating, it can be difficult to get out of the modes of thought that result in these traits. Anger can kick you out of that. For myself, the trick was finally realizing that it is easier to do the work earlier, than to avoid it until it becomes difficult or undoable. I liken it to eating your veggies while they're warm and still have flavor, rather than avoiding them until they're a cold pile of unappetizing mush.

That doesn't mean I don't procrastinate at all, but rather that there are things that I simply don't procrastinate. And, yes, often I feel anger as I do those things, because, well, I don't WANT to do them (emotionally), but I know that it is better to do them than not, and I feel better afterwards.

 

[AzulEyes]

9s are like this. Anger? What anger? It's there under the surface - subconscious but not expressed.



I think that's a great definition.



It doesn't have to be expressed at all. It's felt. I don't think it's a particularly good idea to bottle it up but everyone is different.

umm is that avatar really you? Very high on the hotness meter.