[SP] A question to determine S or N?

[Jaguar]

Everything I've said is based on my personal experience.

Hot damn, that's intuitive.

 

[Raspberry_rain]

Hot damn, that's intuitive.

Hot damn, get over yourself. Intuitives don't neglect personal experience. If you anything about MBTI you would know that Ne users form patterns from the world around them, including their personal experience. I'm sorry you're too small minded to figure that out for yourself. Try doing some research before you try and start a fight with a person you don't even know, or better yet, get a life and don't do it at all. Oh wait...while we're stereotyping, you can't get a life because you're an introvert, so just keep doing what you're doing.

 

[Jaguar]

Hot damn, get over yourself. Intuitives don't neglect personal experience. If you anything about MBTI you would know that Ne users form patterns from the world around them, including their personal experience. I'm sorry you're too small minded to figure that out for yourself. Try doing some research before you try and start a fight with a person you don't even know, or better yet, get a life and don't do it at all. Oh wait...while we're stereotyping, you can't get a life because you're an introvert, so just keep doing what you're doing.

I'm new here. Never heard of the MBTI. What is it?

 

[Raspberry_rain]

I'm new here. Never heard of the MBTI. What is it?

Now I just have to give you points for making me laugh

 

[HongDou]

Thanks for answering nicely. I agree, I probably didn't phrase that well. From my experience though (even as recent as yesterday) N people prefer to talk about really random things while S people prefer to talk about things that are more relevant to their lives.

I don't know, I'm pretty sure discussing "random things" is more of an EP quality than it is N. I find talking with ESPs fairly easy (and no, not just because I have ESFP as my listed type right now as I'm still very on the fence between the two EFPs) because I can ramble on about interesting concepts I've come across or express ideas that have been floating around in my head and they just run with it because even the novelty of them can be perceived as attractive and intriguing. This is probably coated with some of my experience as an E7 but Pe just likes to dabble in a wide variety of thoughts and experiences.

IMO the ones who are concerned with relevance are more EJs because they're more goal-oriented and want to execute what they've drawn from the information they've perceived. I can talk with my ENFJ mom about anything but the crucial part is that there has to be a "so-what" factor that gives the data perceived value.

But of course there's variance as well. I know some ESFJ besties who will also just listen to whatever you have to say and go with the flow of the conversation, while two of my ESTP besties also have a need for the so-what factor (you could probably chalk this up to being a Get-Things-Going type vs In-Charge though). I don't have an answer for the OP since I don't think there's one surefire way to decipher whether one is S or N, but I know that conversation points and behavior isn't one of them. Compare an INTJ to an ESFP, and I think the latter is a lot more likely to jump into a conversation about an abstract and irrelevant concept while the former will probably wait for you to explain how it fits into the idea you've been (whether you're aware of it or not) building upon.

 

[TheCheeseBurgerKing]

They're obviously INTP

 

[miss fortune]

This is just as stereotypical as anything else. Intuitives fit in just fine in society if they're healthy and mature and the same is true of sensors. It's not a war between the types. Oh and actually most people that type as N type that way because THEY TOOK THE TEST, not because they were crying about not fitting in. Amazing how simple that is.

dude... your tone is ridiculous

I didn't say that ALL intuitives don't fit in by any means... the ones who come on boards on the internet and bitch about all sensors are the ones I was talking about... and I'm not even saying that they really ARE intuitive either... internet tests are self reporting and not at all accurate

the reason that someone usually WOULD be online taking tests and then following up with researching things and such are generally the people who have questions about their personality and one major question tends to be "why am I not like everyone else?"

I've been on this board for a long time and I'm a bit tired of getting blamed for everything that's wrong with society just for my type

 

[Raspberry_rain]

I don't know, I'm pretty sure discussing "random things" is more of an EP quality than it is N. I find talking with ESPs fairly easy (and no, not just because I have ESFP as my listed type right now as I'm still very on the fence between the two EFPs) because I can ramble on about interesting concepts I've come across or express ideas that have been floating around in my head and they just run with it because even the novelty of them can be perceived as attractive and intriguing. This is probably coated with some of my experience as an E7 but Pe just likes to dabble in a wide variety of thoughts and experiences.

IMO the ones who are concerned with relevance are more EJs because they're more goal-oriented and want to execute what they've drawn from the information they've perceived. I can talk with my ENFJ mom about anything but the crucial part is that there has to be a "so-what" factor that gives the data perceived value.

But of course there's variance as well. I know some ESFJ besties who will also just listen to whatever you have to say and go with the flow of the conversation, while two of my ESTP besties also have a need for the so-what factor (you could probably chalk this up to being a Get-Things-Going type vs In-Charge though). I don't have an answer for the OP since I don't think there's one surefire way to decipher whether one is S or N, but I know that conversation points and behavior isn't one of them. Compare an INTJ to an ESFP, and I think the latter is a lot more likely to jump into a conversation about an abstract and irrelevant concept while the former will probably wait for you to explain how it fits into the idea you've been (whether you're aware of it or not) building upon.

You have a point. I love talking to ESPs for the same reason.

 

[Raspberry_rain]

dude... your tone is ridiculous

I didn't say that ALL intuitives don't fit in by any means... the ones who come on boards on the internet and bitch about all sensors are the ones I was talking about... and I'm not even saying that they really ARE intuitive either... internet tests are self reporting and not at all accurate

the reason that someone usually WOULD be online taking tests and then following up with researching things and such are generally the people who have questions about their personality and one major question tends to be "why am I not like everyone else?"

I've been on this board for a long time and I'm a bit tired of getting blamed for everything that's wrong with society just for my type

I'm an ENFP so ridiculous is my specialty lol I definitely don't blame you for being frustrated about people hating on you just for your type. That's incredibly immature and anybody who does that is the one with the problem. (Btw, I feel your pain. I've seen way too many internet articles talking about how shallow extroverts are and I hate it) Some of the smartest, kindest, and most productive people I know are sensors. Some of the most shallow and rude people I know are sensors. Stereotypes need to be burned to the ground. My problem with what you said though was that even though you didn't say all you still perpetuated a stereotype about intuitives. It's a really common thing, one group gets criticized unfairly so they criticize the other group in their frustration. But trading stereotype for stereotype isn't the best solution. Most intuitives I know are not outcast at all and are simply curious about personalities when they test. Just like most sensors I know are smart and imaginative and not "sheeple". For the record a sensor got me hooked on MBTI

 

[star tripper]

Figure out if you're on the Se-Ni or Ne-Si axis.

Ne-Si: Embracing potential energy but not necessarily having the maturity to turn it into kinetic energy. You see all the things that could be done... and that's good enough for you. Especially if you're young. You get energized by what could possibly happen, but you don't need to actualize your ideas.

Se-Ni: Embracing the world as it is but not necessarily having the maturity to perceive consequences. You see all the things that could be experienced, and you jump right in with no regard for consequences. Especially if you're young. You get energized by what's happening, but you don't have the foresight to see if it's a good idea in the long run.

These are basic, slightly extreme descriptions, but they should give you an idea of how different ESTPs are from ENTPs.

 

[á´…eparted]

Really? Why don't you tell me how it's designed to make S look like the bad guy? My S friends are some of my favorite people in the world and my N friends are some of my other favorites. On the other hand I've also met ignorant, shallow, and incredibly rude S types and N types (you'd be one example) I love seeing the different ways people look at the world. Everything I've said is based on my personal experience. I have helped numerous people determine their Myers Briggs types for work and for fun. These are the patterns I've seen. How about you get over yourself and realize not everybody thinks like you and that doesn't mean they're narcissistic okay? Thanks. Oh also every person I've suspected was an N I tested and they ended up being an N and every person I suspected of being an S was also a confirmed S....oops so much for me stereotyping

I'm not going to placate you, and others already pointed out how anyway. Just because your friends with different types doesn't mean you didn't promote bias, or free you of push-back. You even said it yourself "I'm gonna get hate for this", so you full well already know it's bias.

Nice insult. Too bad it doesn't work, because I'm not being rude, I'm being blunt. There is a different, and even if I am being rude; oh how I just don't care. I say what needs to be said (so long as it's within the confines of the rules).

Personal experience and anecdotal evidence has it's place, but it's not to be used for broad sweeping statements, or to fully labelize an entire group. To do so is to err and to promote false understanding. So what if you've helped people and always been right. What does that prove? It proves that you've gotten people correct. That's about it. MBTI is very inexact. We don't know what you're using your as your basis as which to confirm (which could very well be faulty).

And yes, I am telling you that you are stereotyping. Continue to promote such things and others will chime in sharing the same sentiment as me in regards to that.

 

[cascadeco]

Oops I quoted the wrong post. But any N who won't be friends with an S because of "superficiality" is the superficial one.

It would be superficial, however we're still good friends. That wasn't my point though, I used my friend as an illustration of a common thing with N's who know about mbti, in that due to misinformation out there, they can and will easily mistype s's as n's if the S doesn't fall in line with many of the S descriptions online, many of which aren't very flattering, though information is definitely starting to improve these days.

 

[Poki]

Simple question. What is more important to you, theory or reality? Do you use theory to judge the world or use the world to judge theory? Thats one thing I have noticed that would be a decent question. I have no issues with theory, but it is almost always judged against reality. An N is more likely to judge reality based on a theory. We are all both real world and theory based.

For example, Someone may take that Ns don't get along with Ss and therefor if they get along with someone they must be an N. That is just one simple example. Where as others will look at reality and determine who they get along with and then use that to determine if Ns do or don't get along with Ss. This is in reference to our natural way of going about things. Due to knowledge we may have had our eyes opened to the opposite way. An N is more likely to tweak theory based on what an S says so they can actually still put theory first, its just a more accurate theory based on the real world. S will do the opposite. An N will bring up theory which will make an S go, yeah...I use that here and here and here. Didn't actually create a theory or pattern for it.

 

[Pionart]

Simple question. What is more important to you, theory or reality? Do you use theory to judge the world or use the world to judge theory? Thats one thing I have noticed that would be a decent question. I have no issues with theory, but it is almost always judged against reality. An N is more likely to judge reality based on a theory. We are all both real world and theory based.

For example, Someone may take that Ns don't get along with Ss and therefor if they get along with someone they must be an N. That is just one simple example. Where as others will look at reality and determine who they get along with and then use that to determine if Ns do or don't get along with Ss. This is in reference to our natural way of going about things. Due to knowledge we may have had our eyes opened to the opposite way. An N is more likely to tweak theory based on what an S says so they can actually still put theory first, its just a more accurate theory based on the real world. S will do the opposite. An N will bring up theory which will make an S go, yeah...I use that here and here and here. Didn't actually create a theory or pattern for it.

"Theory" for N doesn't sound right to me, though maybe it is.

Perhaps similar to what you're saying, but which sounds a bit better -to me-, is N for possibilities ("what could possibly happen?", "what made this possible?"), S for actualities ("what is it I am seeing?", "what is it that actually happened?")?

 

[Poki]

"Theory" for N doesn't sound right to me, though maybe it is.

Perhaps similar to what you're saying, but which sounds a bit better -to me-, is N for possibilities ("what could possibly happen?", "what made this possible?"), S for actualities ("what is it I am seeing?", "what is it that actually happened?")?

Yeah, that's why I realized I was ISTP instead of INTP. I kept saying...why don't you ask the person and they just ignored me and tried to analyze based on possibilities. Arguing over who was right and who was wrong and why. And ignored when reality didn't match the concept or theory. It really has nothing to do with whether the concept or theory is right. Either could be a conspiracy theorist...just a matter of how you go about it.

 

[Poki]

"Theory" for N doesn't sound right to me, though maybe it is.

Perhaps similar to what you're saying, but which sounds a bit better -to me-, is N for possibilities ("what could possibly happen?", "what made this possible?"), S for actualities ("what is it I am seeing?", "what is it that actually happened?")?

Put a little more thought into this. So Ne is more like shallow concepts/theories/patterns...which is possibilities. Ni is more like deep concepts/theories/patterns. E vs I which is kinda like Width vs Depth

 

[Pionart]

Put a little more thought into this. So Ne is more like shallow concepts/theories/patterns...which is possibilities. Ni is more like deep concepts/theories/patterns. E vs I which is kinda like Width vs Depth

I think Ne willl tend to expand upon the object in accordance with what can be done with it. Ni will, I think, try and recreate in their mind the underlying conditions which lead a certain thing to come about. They are both focused on development, where the introverted version will seek to understand how something develops, and the extroverted version will shape the process by what could develop. That is how I currently see I v E - understanding of what something is like vs. understanding of how to shape things.

So, for S: S is about something's image. Si will introject the image of something, so that there is an image of what they are looking at formed in their mind. I describe this as the "aesthetic" of an object. It is hard to put into words because it is a perception. Se on the other hand will project an image outwards based on what will create a desired impact in the eyes of others (though I think this "eyes of others" bit is only a part of it).

I am still thinking through this stuff. What do you think?

 

[Poki]

I think Ne willl tend to expand upon the object in accordance with what can be done with it. Ni will, I think, try and recreate in their mind the underlying conditions which lead a certain thing to come about. They are both focused on development, where the introverted version will seek to understand how something develops, and the extroverted version will shape the process by what could develop. That is how I currently see I v E - understanding of what something is like vs. understanding of how to shape things.

So, for S: S is about something's image. Si will introject the image of something, so that there is an image of what they are looking at formed in their mind. I describe this as the "aesthetic" of an object. It is hard to put into words because it is a perception. Se on the other hand will project an image outwards based on what will create a desired impact in the eyes of others (though I think this "eyes of others" bit is only a part of it).

I am still thinking through this stuff. What do you think?

I like that, my minds eye is like a black and white TV with bad reception. I know personally I don't think in images. Its like ok, I have an idea on how not to screw things up, lets jump into it because the vision is in front of me. I usually put more thought then a dominant Se, but I don't have to have some fully thought out vision before I jump, just some half ass direction. I scare people because of that.

 

[Raspberry_rain]

I'm not going to placate you, and others already pointed out how anyway. Just because your friends with different types doesn't mean you didn't promote bias, or free you of push-back. You even said it yourself "I'm gonna get hate for this", so you full well already know it's bias
Nice insult. Too bad it doesn't work, because I'm not being rude, I'm being blunt. There is a different, and even if I am being rude; oh how I just don't care. I say what needs to be said (so long as it's within the confines of the rules).

Personal experience and anecdotal evidence has it's place, but it's not to be used for broad sweeping statements, or to fully labelize an entire group. To do so is to err and to promote false understanding. So what if you've helped people and always been right. What does that prove? It proves that you've gotten people correct. That's about it. MBTI is very inexact. We don't know what you're using your as your basis as which to confirm (which could very well be faulty).

And yes, I am telling you that you are stereotyping. Continue to promote such things and others will chime in sharing the same sentiment as me in regards to that.

There is a world of difference between stereotyping and simply pointing out a pattern. I don't need you to placate me because I don't answer to you, I simply wanted you to justify calling me a narcissist but you haven't. I have zero bias toward S types. Many are smarter than me. I was simply trying to give an example to OP of how the two are different kinds of smart. Someone else pointed out in a constructive way that I phrased my example poorly and I appreciated that. I was merely trying to hint at what some other people have mentioned about theory vs reality. As for acknowledging that I would get hate that's because I've seen on this board many sensors who as soon as you imply that they're different than intuitives they complain that you're "calling them stupid because you can't fit in with society". Mature sensors can be quite open minded and many are far smarter than I am, so if you continue to accuse me of bias, all you'll do is prove that intuitives can be quite narrow minded.

 

[Raspberry_rain]

It would be superficial, however we're still good friends. That wasn't my point though, I used my friend as an illustration of a common thing with N's who know about mbti, in that due to misinformation out there, they can and will easily mistype s's as n's if the S doesn't fall in line with many of the S descriptions online, many of which aren't very flattering, though information is definitely starting to improve these days.

That's definitely an interesting trend but I suppose it makes sense if the descriptions used to be horrible. Too bad about that, fortunately they definitely seem to be better now.