[Traditional Enneagram] 9's and Assumptions People Make

[SearchingforPeace]

Reminded me of a professor I had who was simultaneously christian and zen buddhist.

I see no inherent conflict. I have incorporated many Taoist and Buddhist ideas into my own Christianity

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I see no inherent conflict. I have incorporated many Taoist and Buddhist ideas into my own Christianity

There is none I was aware of. I thought it was cool that he enthusiastically followed both. He viewed one as a faith and source of moral and ethical strength and the other as a practical means of increasing his discipline and better following his faith.

 

[Ene]

Reminded me of a professor I had who was simultaneously christian and zen buddhist.

It is entirely possible because Taoism and Buddhism were initially philosophies whereas belief in God is faith. One can follow Jesus and still adhere to the philosophy of Taoism. Taoism, in its earliest and purest form, contained nothing [which I am aware of] that refuted Christianity. As far as I know and from what my Grand Master and Great Grand-Master tell me, Taoism was never meant to be a religion and ironically, the earliest followers of Jesus did not call themselves Christians. Someone else [the people at a place called Antioch] named them that. The earliest followers of Jesus often described themselves as those in “The Way.”

There is none I was aware of. I thought it was cool that he enthusiastically followed both. He viewed one as a faith and source of moral and ethical strength and the other as a practical means of increasing his discipline and better following his faith

I agree with him.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

It is entirely possible because Taoism and Buddhism were initially philosophies whereas belief in God is faith. One can follow Jesus and still adhere to the philosophy of Taoism. Taoism, in its earliest and purest form, contained nothing [which I am aware of] that refuted Christianity. As far as I know and from what my Grand Master and Great Grand-Master tell me, Taoism was never meant to be a religion and ironically, the earliest followers of Jesus did not call themselves Christians. Someone else [the people at a place called Antioch] named them that. The earliest followers of Jesus often described themselves as those in “The Way.”



I agree with him.

Yep. I'm fascinated how early christianity was viewed by "outsiders." The Romans essentially viewed it as a troublesome sub-sect of Judaism. Interesting how perception colors things differently from varying viewpoints. It's controversial but I find little difference between the teachings of Gautama Buddha and Jesus Christ. I read a great book a few years ago by the vietnamese monk Thich Nhat Hanh called Living Buddha, Living Christ which also drew many parallels between the two. Some historians have suggested Jesus was aware of buddhist teachings; I don't know if any evidence really exists to support this and I think it's possible that early christianity had zero influence from buddhism and merely that the two are similar because both were natural reactions to similar cultural and economic conditions in their respective regions. Of course Alexander The Great spread Greek influence to India, so it is reasonable to assume that in turn some cultural influence was also transmitted back to the west, but whether this affected the development of Jesus' teachings I can't say without further research on the subject. Unfortunately, this topic makes a lot of people uncomfortable so I usually avoid it.

Kind of a side-note but I'm also fascinated in how some sects of Buddhism have now adopted elements of devotional Christianity. It's very evident in the Pure Land school and some other Mahayana sects.

 

[Ene]

Yep. I'm fascinated how early Christianity was viewed by "outsiders." The Romans essentially viewed it as a troublesome sub-sect of Judaism. Interesting how perception colors things differently from varying viewpoints. It's controversial but I find little difference between the teachings of Gautama Buddha and Jesus Christ. I read a great book a few years ago by the Vietnamese monk Thich Nhat Hanh called Living Buddha, Living Christ which also drew many parallels between the two. Some historians have suggested Jesus was aware of Buddhist teachings; I don't know if any evidence really exists to support this and I think it's possible that early Christianity had zero influence from Buddhism and merely that the two are similar because both were natural reactions to similar cultural and economic conditions in their respective regions. Of course Alexander The Great spread Greek influence to India, so it is reasonable to assume that in turn some cultural influence was also transmitted back to the west, but whether this affected the development of Jesus' teachings I can't say without further research on the subject. Unfortunately, this topic makes a lot of people uncomfortable so I usually avoid it.

Kind of a side-note but I'm also fascinated in how some sects of Buddhism have now adopted elements of devotional Christianity. It's very evident in the Pure Land school and some other Mahayana sects.

Regarding the bolded, I think it is kind of sad that people are often so closed-minded (in any direction) that they can't legitimately discuss their faiths, philosophies and ideologies without getting defensive, angry, etc. Some people get very worked up if what someone else believes even sounds different to them and often these are the very people who claim to be tolerant. I just walk away from such discussions, because in my mind, they accomplish nothing but wasted energy and effort. If I perceive that the person I'm talking to is offended by what I believe or already closed-off to anything I have to say, then like you, I avoid it. Maybe that's a 9 way of doing things? Maybe we wait until we perceive that the hearer is ready to listen before we invest the energy to speak? I don't know, but it seems reasonable.


Regarding the italics, that does sound interesting. I will certainly have to do some reading about it.

 

[mcgooglian]

Regarding the bolded, I think it is kind of sad that people are often so closed-minded (in any direction) that they can't legitimately discuss their faiths, philosophies and ideologies without getting defensive, angry, etc. Some people get very worked up if what someone else believes even sounds different to them and often these are the very people who claim to be tolerant. I just walk away from such discussions, because in my mind, they accomplish nothing but wasted energy and effort. If I perceive that the person I'm talking to is offended by what I believe or already closed-off to anything I have to say, then like you, I avoid it. Maybe that's a 9 way of doing things? Maybe we wait until we perceive that the hearer is ready to listen before we invest the energy to speak? I don't know, but it seems reasonable.

That's actually what I like about my Muay Thai gym. Everyone there is very respectful and some of the best conversations can be heard during/after training sessions. There's a certain level of respect that comes from knowing you can punch someone/get punched hard and still help each other grow and be friends afterwards.

 

[Ene]

That's actually what I like about my Muay Thai gym. Everyone there is very respectful and some of the best conversations can be heard during/after training sessions. There's a certain level of respect that comes from knowing you can punch someone/get punched hard and still help each other grow and be friends afterwards.

Absolutely. I feel the same about my Martial Arts family, too.

 

[ceecee]

If you ignore a problem, it usually goes away.

Yes of course it does.

 

[mcgooglian]

Absolutely. I feel the same about my Martial Arts family, too.

The head instructor/owner is actually proud of the fact the people there are so respectful. When one of the guys there (an 8w9) was getting married, he invited the people from the gym.

 

[Ene]

The head instructor/owner is actually proud of the fact the people there are so respectful. When one of the guys there (an 8w9) was getting married, he invited the people from the gym.

I think being respectful should be a prerequisite for being a martial arts instructor on any level and I would think it is an admirable quality that 9s can develop very well.

 

[wolfy]

I've found my 9-ness to opposite effect - people presume I have hidden strength or that I'm insane.

I haven't got the insane one, but the hidden strength one comes up a bit. Maybe it is just the ability to remain calm.

 

[mcgooglian]

I think being respectful should be a prerequisite for being a martial arts instructor on any level and I would think it is an admirable quality that 9s can develop very well.

It should be, but with how much my instructor travels and deals with other gyms, I'm always hearing good and bad stories about other places

 

[Ene]

It should be, but with how much my instructor travels and deals with other gyms, I'm always hearing good and bad stories about other places

True. I've experienced the same thing. Much of the Martial Arts world has become "just another sport." In my school, the codes of Martial Morality are written on the wall and each day before class ends, we gather the students into a circle around the big yin/yang symbol in the middle of the floor. [We call it the Circle of Courage] and we discuss at least one aspect of martial morality before we stand and repeat our code, which is very 9-like and as I go and meet lots of other practitioners of the arts I often wonder if they make the code a part of their training, because without it, I feel that Martial Arts is just another sport, but to me, it is a life-way.

 

[mcgooglian]

True. I've experienced the same thing. Much of the Martial Arts world has become "just another sport." In my school, the codes of Martial Morality are written on the wall and each day before class ends, we gather the students into a circle around the big yin/yang symbol in the middle of the floor. [We call it the Circle of Courage] and we discuss at least one aspect of martial morality before we stand and repeat our code, which is very 9-like and as I go and meet lots of other practitioners of the arts I often wonder if they make the code a part of their training, because without it, I feel that Martial Arts is just another sport, but to me, it is a life-way.

Exactly. At my gym, we joke that martial arts are a way of life. At the beginning and end of each lesson, whether it's a full class or a private lesson, we always line up and bow in/out. Being a 9 (particularly with an 8 wing) I definitely follow the concept of "Speak softly but carry a big stick." I know I'm strong and I've never started a fight, but there's been a few times where I've been ready in case shit broke out.