[Traditional Enneagram] 9's and Assumptions People Make

[á´…eparted]

Perhaps, many people lack your ability to discern the difference.

I don't know. We're not really all that alien, even if some of us do look like it.

Perhaps. While I am not so good at determining peoples thoughts/emotions, I am quite good at discerning peoples attributes/traits. It just makes sense to me. It could be because I am at a university and this around lots of smart people, but most people I know and associate with have fairly good senses of figuring out what people are like. There are a few outliers, and most of us are annoyed by their lack of it .

I wouldn't say your alien. It's more that 9's are SO different from me that I just can't *relate* or grasp it. If just for the fact that I have an opinion on everything and willingly fling myself into conflict since I instictively am drawn to drive/control it as I see fit. I also thrive off intensity, stress, and in a way, excess. Placidity has a place, but it usually bores the piss out of me. <<< all anti-9 (for the most part).

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

[MENTION=5999]Still, I do think it's a problem for 9s, or just people in general. Maybe we all go around making assumptions about others all of the time, based on insufficient evidences.

I don't know if it's a 9 thing or not (I've never taken as much interest in enneagram as I have in MBTI), but I seem to do it a lot. I intuit things about people based on little evidence (it may stem from me being somewhat shy and not as direct or social as I'd like to be, and therefore learning to read between the lines). Sometimes I'm right, but I've been wrong too, so I try to keep an open mind and not form solid conclusions.

[MENTION=5999]PeaceBaby[/MENTION] made some statements about INFJs forming self images and being disappointed when people somehow don't see the same thing in them; I think that might be a 9 trait as well (I am guilty as charged). I got a little butthurt when my wife told me "cunning" wasn't a word she'd use to describe me. I do see myself as cunning, but it's very subtle and I think I hide it well. I can manipulate and sway people easily when I want something (that doesn't mean I do it a lot), so it almost offended me that she didn't see that quality in me, but then I thought about it more and realized that maybe I should take pride in the fact that I do it so well that even my own wife (who probably knows me better than anyone else) is unaware or at least doesn't see it as a dominant trait....CHAMELEON WIN! I was going to use a real life example about lying to an authority figure's face to escape incrimination many years ago, but I don't want to go into specifics for obvious reasons.

It seems you were in a similar situation with this person failing to see a facet of your personality, but I suppose the point I am trying to make is...let people see you as sweet and take some measure of pride in this other, somewhat hidden facet of your personality. Let it be a surprise when other people see it, rather than going out of your way to prove something (I'm not saying that's what you were doing, of course).

 

[Ene]

I don't know if it's a 9 thing or not (I've never taken as much interest in enneagram as I have in MBTI), but I seem to do it a lot. I intuit things about people based on little evidence (it may stem from me being somewhat shy and not as direct or social as I'd like to be, and therefore learning to read between the lines). Sometimes I'm right, but I've been wrong too, so I try to keep an open mind and not form solid conclusions.

[MENTION=5999]PeaceBaby[/MENTION] made some statements about INFJs forming self images and being disappointed when people somehow don't see the same thing in them; I think that might be a 9 trait as well (I am guilty as charged). I got a little butthurt when my wife told me "cunning" wasn't a word she'd use to describe me. I do see myself as cunning, but it's very subtle and I think I hide it well. I can manipulate and sway people easily when I want something (that doesn't mean I do it a lot), so it almost offended me that she didn't see that quality in me, but then I thought about it more and realized that maybe I should take pride in the fact that I do it so well that even my own wife (who probably knows me better than anyone else) is unaware or at least doesn't see it as a dominant trait. I was going to use a real life example about lying to an authority figure's face to escape incrimination many years ago, but I don't want to go into specifics for obvious reasons.

It seems you were in a similar situation with this person failing to see a facet of your personality, but I suppose the point I am trying to make is...let people see you as sweet and take some measure of pride in this other, somewhat hidden facet of your personality. Let it be a surprise when other people see it, rather than going out of your way to prove something (I'm not saying that's what you were doing, of course).

I think you're right on target. hahaha....I guess it takes one to know one. I like that advice, let people just see me however they want and then let them be surprised when the real deal comes to the surface. Thank you. I'm not sure what came over me to tick me off when she didn't see me as I hoped she did; maybe it was a the 8 wing? Anyway, you make some very valid points, as did [MENTION=5999]PeaceBaby[/MENTION]. Thank you both.

[MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION], hehe....it would be very funny to drop you off in a society of 9s, then hide and watch. It would be like watching 7 years in Tibet I guess.

 

[small.wonder]

Really good thread [MENTION=16382]Ene[/MENTION], I probably need to let the 9's in my life know (through action) that I belive they are capable. I do agree that communication from them would make it easier though.

 

[mcgooglian]

I think it is a universal martial arts strategy. I think that it's cool that you do Muay Thai.

Thanks. I've actually seen people who rush forward which would seem more cp 6, 7, or 8 as well as people who just try to keep their distance. I haven't met any other 9s though

 

[ceecee]

Really good thread [MENTION=16382]Ene[/MENTION], I probably need to let the 9's in my life know (through action) that I belive they are capable. I do agree that communication from them would make it easier though.

I think this is more important than any one thing with the 9's. I didn't realize it right away with my ENFJ but just saying - "You have my confidence." Or, "I trust you." is like catnip. They get all

 

[small.wonder]

I think this is more important than any one thing with the 9's. I didn't realize it right away with my ENFJ but just saying - "You have my confidence." Or, "I trust you." is like catnip. They get all

I so agree! I think my problem though, is that I tend to verbalized that (because it's true) but then I turn around and reactively defend them, or call the shot because it's how I'm wired. It's that self sacrificial thing about love, I have to show them I respect them and have confidence in their abilities, even if it means dying to my itch to react.

 

[ceecee]

I so agree! I think my problem though, is that I tend to verbalized that (because it's true) but then I turn around and reactively defend them, or call the shot because it's how I'm wired. It's that self sacrificial thing about love, I have to show them I respect them and have confidence in their abilities, even if it means dying to my itch to react.

Or take over. Or snatch it out of their hands. I know that feeling well. The nice thing is - they see you resisting and they see you trying to dial it back. And they appreciate it.

 

[á´…eparted]

Hard, hehe....it would be very funny to drop you off in a society of 9s, then hide and watch. It would be like watching 7 years in Tibet I guess.

I'd probably get bored, go sort of nuts, and fight it tooth and nail for a loooooong time.

Never saw the movie, but I know a bit of the just.

 

[Ene]

Thank you [MENTION=17697]small.wonder[/MENTION] As a 9, I will work on making my plans known more fully and not just assuming that everyone sees what I see or rather "how" I see. I think that's one of my biggest flaws. I often assume that because a thing [usually an abstract or intangible thing] is apparent to me that it's apparent to others. Then I am shocked when they misread my intentions because they really didn't see and I didn't show them.

[MENTION]mcgoolian[/MENTION] I think my Great Grandmaster may be a 9. Also, my teacher, he seems to be very 9-like.

[MENTION=4050]ceecee[/MENTION] You're right in saying

"You have my confidence." Or, "I trust you." is like catnip.

or at least I think so. I think it's because when someone tells me that they trust me or that they know I can handle something, they are saying to me that they understand that I have my own values, however alien those values may be to them and that they understand that in my own way, my own timing, I will do what needs to be done, if it truly needs to be done. It's like saying that they understand that I'm objective, that I have to see all sides of the issue before I can make an accurate call. In the event of an emergency, I'm very capable [I guess the 8 wing takes over or something] but in day to day life, I can't NOT see all sides of an issue and I have to take all those sides into consideration in order to reach a fair and productive solution for all parties involved. I guess what I'm saying is that I want to do both what I believe to be right according to a higher set of principles than just my feelings or even someone else's feelings, but I also want to do what is most beneficial and helpful to everyone and at the same time, I want to present it in such a way that they understand that I'm not just disregarding them or brushing them aside. I think it's all about balance and harmony; yin/yang. So, my issue is definitely to let others know what's going on inside my head but that's not always easy because sometimes it's something I [and I'm a writer, so imagine what it's like for 9s who aren't good with words!] I haven't found concrete language to express yet and I guess a big part of that may be due to Ni-dominance as well. I may know a thing, a concept, but lack the ability to make it known so it seems like I'm dragging my feet about communicating my plans or my ideas.

 

[Ene]

[MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION] that's kind of what happened but in the process he and the Dali Lama became good friends and impacted each other's lives in good ways. [MENTION=5289]mcgooglian[/MENTION] I think my Grand Master is a 9.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Oddly enough, when I am feeling uncertain about my abilities and someone tells me they are confident I can handle a situation (regardless of whether I have actually voiced my insecurity, which I usually keep to myself), I feel more confident in my ability to handle a given situation and my insecurity or indecisiveness usually fades away. Perhaps it stems from a 9 need to to keep peace and avoid conflict that they can initially waver or be indecisive, but once others place that power in their hands, the 9 can more easily take charge?

It just kind of sucks that I need to hear that kind of reassurance so much (not that I ask for it often).

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

[MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION] that's kind of what happened but in the process he and the Dali Lama became good friends and impacted each other's lives in good ways. [MENTION=5289]mcgooglian[/MENTION] I think my Grand Master is a 9.

Great book (a little boring in some parts) and film. I am attracted to stories of strange men (or women) visiting strange lands. It's been a while since I read it but if I recall, Harrer initially lived there in exile to avoid capture by the British in India.

 

[Virtual ghost]

So, is it a 9 thing? or is it just an introverted boss kind of thing?

I trully do not think that this is strictly related to a type.
This is simply inevitable outcome in all situations where a person looks more fragile and softer than they actually are. What makes their environment to think that a person does not have certain competences or courage in them.

 

[Avocado]

If you ignore a problem, it usually goes away.

 

[mcgooglian]

[MENTION=20829]Hard[/MENTION] that's kind of what happened but in the process he and the Dali Lama became good friends and impacted each other's lives in good ways. [MENTION=5289]mcgooglian[/MENTION] I think my Grand Master is a 9.

What martial art do you study?

 

[Ene]

What martial art do you study?

Primarily Baguazhang.

 

[mcgooglian]

Primarily Baguazhang.

Given its history in Buddhism and Taoism, it doesn't surprise me that your Grand Master is a 9 then

 

[Ene]

Given its history in Buddhism and Taoism, it doesn't surprise me that your Grand Master is a 9 then

True. He grew up in Fujian,China and was raised Taoist. However, since coming to the U.S. [he came some time back in the 60s or 70s], he has converted to Christianity because he believes that "The Way" of Taoism is the same "The Way" spoken of in the New Testament. He is very fluent in ancient Chinese history and language. He is also a practitioner of Chinese herbal medicines and acupuncture, although he has a medical degree that he earned in the U.S. and has had a medical practice in the U.S. for many years. He is a most interesting man.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

True. He grew up in Fujian,China and was raised Taoist. However, since coming to the U.S. [he came some time back in the 60s or 70s], he has converted to Christianity because he believes that "The Way" of Taoism is the same "The Way" spoken of in the New Testament. He is very fluent in ancient Chinese history and language. He is also a practitioner of Chinese herbal medicines and acupuncture, although he has a medical degree that he earned in the U.S. and has had a medical practice in the U.S. for many years. He is a most interesting man.

Reminded me of a professor I had who was simultaneously christian and zen buddhist.