[Traditional Enneagram] 4 and 8 Relationships

[magpie]

Can we talk about the relationship between 4s and 8s? I'm most interested in real life examples, platonic or romantic. When has this relationship worked? Why? Is this an inherently difficult pairing or is it no different than a relationship between any other enneagram types?

 

[violet_crown]

Can we talk about the relationship between 4s and 8s? I'm most interested in real life examples, platonic or romantic. When has this relationship worked? Why? Is this an inherently difficult pairing or is it no different than a relationship between any other enneagram types?

I posted this in a thread a few years back on my perspective on the pairing as an 8*:

The 8/4 dance is pretty infamous. I've mentioned elsewhere that Fours seem to be the type that pull me the most, but just like for the OP it never seems to work out. My experience has been that there's a very intense bond that forms, generally to the exclusion of everything else. Boundaries get stripped away early. It's not always healthy. The attraction is pretty straightforward for me: Fours inhabit their inner world as totally and confidently as we navigate the outer one. It doesn't sound like much, but the sense of completion that can be derived from that can feel utter.

4s don't interest me as much as they used to as I became more comfortable navigating my Fi, but there can be something very attractive about them. That said, I don't feel like I share most of their concerns, and I think that lack of a common value set may be why it can be so challenging for the pairing to last long-term, romantically or platonically.

(*Standard disclaimer that any generally healthy people of any two types are capable of making a relationship work if they so choose.)

 

[magpie]

My thoughts are similar to yours. I either find myself weirdly attracted to or fascinated by 8s or they make me (perhaps irrationally) angry. But never at the same time, since it is hard for me to be attracted to anyone I find controlling. I'm not saying that all 8s are controlling though.

 

[hjgbujhghg]

I personally find 8s too intense, controling and agressive.Most of the 8s make me feel really uncomfortable. I usually dispise them completly or they give me anxiety.

 

[boomslang]

Nah, leave us alone so we can find 2s and 9s and actually end up with some happiness.

 

[Virtual ghost]

From what I heard 4s should be paired with 1s, 3s and perhaps 7s.

 

[buzzybee1990]

I know this is completely off topic and probably ridiculously annoying. I have been browsing this forum alone for weeks so I promise I'm not a fly by type and if you could help me I would be eternally grateful. You can pm me or whatever. I haven't really been able to include myself in the community because I'm completely lost but I really am so interested. So far I know I'm an insp. How do I find out what number I am.that you're talking about here and my mbti type or whatever it's called and the other popular personality things that you all go by here and think describe you accurately? This is truly important to me so if you could just take a couple min out of your day I would so appreciate it. Thank you and have an amazing night. I'm dying inside but that doesn't mean I don't want the best for all of you! That was random as hell lol oh well I guess that's just my personality that I would love to find more about. And where would mental illness play into all of these tests? Are they invalid if you have depression or bipolar or are schizophrenic or autistic? Just curious. Sorry for the seriously off topic post here. I'm sure that's rude. Sorry again...

 

[miss fortune]

my sis is almost a stereotype of a 4

we can get along great as long as we don't spend too much time together... to put it most tactfully, we are VERY different people

 

[violet_crown]

My thoughts are similar to yours. I either find myself weirdly attracted to or fascinated by 8s or they make me (perhaps irrationally) angry. But never at the same time, since it is hard for me to be attracted to anyone I find controlling. I'm not saying that all 8s are controlling though.

8s care more about controlling the environment than they do specific individuals. Controlling people is more of a heart triad plus maybe type 1 thing.

Nah, leave us alone so we can find 2s and 9s and actually end up with some happiness.

2s are gross. 9s can be cool. 6s and other 8s seem to be the types that consistently move me one way or the other.

Then again, I tend to dislike people in general, but love individuals in particular, so who knows.

 

[miss fortune]

8s care more about controlling the environment than they do specific individuals. Controlling people is more of a heart triad plus maybe type 1 thing.

an unhealthy 4 can interpret almost ANYTHING as someone trying to control them, from my experience



though I might come across a bit controlling to others and be unaware of it... body language and such

 

[Redbone]

I like 8w9 and find them very appealing. 8w7...can be overwhelming. I've got good skin-thickness.

 

[magpie]

8s care more about controlling the environment than they do specific individuals. Controlling people is more of a heart triad plus maybe type 1 thing.

I was talking about any type of controlling, not just controlling people. Though I am less bothered by passive agressive controlling than blatant, agressive controlling, since I can play the passive agressive game well in retaliation. But I don't know how to react to aggressiveness.

an unhealthy 4 can interpret almost ANYTHING as someone trying to control them, from my experience

This is true.

 

[Duffy]

Can't say I find anything particularly fascinating or fresh about this. This is a lot like the ENFP + INTJ pairing -- mostly female ENFP + male INTJ, gender conforming. I find Spongebob Squarepants + Sandy Cheeks pairing to be much more interesting.

an unhealthy 4 can interpret almost ANYTHING as someone trying to control them, from my experience

Hasn't been my experience. Sounds more like an FP issue.

 

[Qlip]

I think I've only had extensive rl interactions with an 8 boss. I think mostly he viewed me with curiosity with a tinge of repulsion. He was a bully, but his shaming and steamrolling 'motivation' tactics never really worked on me. I'm not saying I'm immune to such things, but he couldn't find the right strings. I did appreciate, on a level, all of the other people he shamed and steamrolled to keep off my back in the name of work productivity.

I've always heard that 4's are weak where 8's are strong and vice versa, and there's a mutual attraction to those things. My particular brand of envy has never been focused in the 8 direction, and I don't think my own vulnerability has the right smell to it for an 8 to take interest it.

 

[ceecee]

I don't think my own vulnerability has the right smell to it for an 8 to take interest it.

One of my ENFP's is a 4w5 and you're right. I've never heard anyone refer to it like this and I like it. If she did the passive-aggressive thing to a bigger extent, there would be issues but she does not do it with me. And I don't control her - I have very little to no interest in controlling anyone.

 

[ImaFour]

My sister is an Eight. We haven't spoken/interacted in years. Works for me.

 

[Amargith]

Like with most types, it only works when there is a mutual respect for each other's different strengths, ime. With this pairing, that is particularly important, because they both tend to be stubborn, intense and masters in *VERY* different areas - almost alien-like to the other.

Usually, that respect has a chance to bloom during the phase where we're fascinated with each other, which does seem to happen more readily than with other types. However, disgust and aversion are just as likely to manifest in that initial scouting of one another.

I've found it very much a love/hate connection...and I've had hate turn into love and vice versa, in this connection. There seems to be a visceral reaction though, no matter what the outcome - be it 'stay away from me!' or 'Omg, where have you been all my life'. And sometimes both at the same time. It's..confusing to say the least

 

[OrangeAppled]

I do not get the fascination with 8s.
I have not encountered that many up close because we don't cross paths in life much, or maybe they are so exoticized I don't know what to look for.

Frankly, the ones I've encountered often seemed like meatheads. They have this PE Teacher personality, if you know what I mean.

I don't find it offensive or intimidating, just unappealing and a tad ridiculous.

People generally don't see me as weak, so that dynamic is definitely not there.

If I feel like someone is trying to control me then it's usually an e1 or e6. I find e6 and e2 some of the most manipulative types. I am way more wary of emotional manipulation. 8s strike me as far more straight-forward.